Please help with these paint defects!! (Lots of Pics)

joshcaro

joshcaro

New member
Ok first off I have a 96 Firebird that I have owned for about 2 years. I have kept it thoroughly clean and protected at all times. About last year I started recognizing the roof of my car have these white cloudy looking spots that have since then grown more noticeable and spread more it seems like. The 2 options I can think of is 1) Clear coat failure or 2) Oxidation. I have used Megs ColorX on it by hand and no such luck. Im not sure if it needs more pressure such as the PC to get rid of it or what. Here are a few pictures that hopefully you can help me determine what it is.

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Secondly my brother has a 98 Mazda 626. All over the hood and the roof there are these little circle looking white things with edges to them. Hard to explain, but you should see it in the pictures. Can anyone tell me what they are and how to get rid of them. I used a clay bar on one spot and nothing happened. Please help!



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The Firebird looks like clear coat failure. If it was oxidation the ColorX should have made some difference.



The Mazda looks like it could be etched water spots from acid rain or water with a lot of minerals in it. You mentioned that you tried clay on it, but how about some ScratchX? Here is a thread on water spots:



http://autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45507&highlight=water+spots



And here is a thread on using ScratchX if you want to try it before using something more agressive:



http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1516
 
1) Clear coat failure...To fix = repaint



2) Look like etchings. Follow John's instructions.



Good Luck :)
 
1) Is it true to say that it is absolutely not oxidation? I really would hate to have to paint it (thats big bucks). Would it hurt it anymore If I tried to rub extra hard in the area with ColorX? After I washed, clayed, 3m SMR, glazed, and waxed my car one day it was way less noticeable, but after a few days passed it wore off.



2) So you would suggest trying Scratch X above all other products? I know you would suggest using a PC with a cutting pad but at the moment I do not own one. Is it possible to get rid of the etchings by hand? How hard would I need to scrub at it?
 
1. Yes, it's pretty safe to say it isn't oxidation. I doubt that ColorX will hurt it any more than it already is because it is basically a chemical cleaner, so you can try some more of it if youâ€â„¢d like.



It would be normal for it to look a bit better after being waxed/glazed, but as you noticed it will return before long. Go to two or three body shops and get their opinions on it before you get a repaint. You may even want to try a good sealer like Klasse SG, EX-P, etc. and see if it helps maintain the appearance for a bit longer than your wax.



2. ScratchX is a good place to start by hand to see if you can eliminate or reduce the etchings, but with so many it will be a lot of work without a PC. Follow the directions in the link I provided on the Megâ€â„¢s site. If ScratchX doesnâ€â„¢t remove or reduce them enough you can try 1Z PP, it will be more aggressive than ScratchX, but I donâ€â„¢t think Iâ€â„¢d want to use something as aggressive as 1Z UPP by hand. Personally I wouldnâ€â„¢t want to try to rub all of those out by hand, but here a link for some 1Z polishes:



http://www.autopia-carcare.com/dual-action-polishers.html
 
I had clouding like it before and when I got VERY agressive, it came right up. You could try but you will need a rotary, DACP, and a cutting pad.



If you used SMR and a glaze, their nothing but oils...you more than likely just 'covered' up the problem.
 
Ok update on the oxidation/clear coat failure. I went back outside with my ColorX and a hand applicator and went as hard as I could with my hand back and forth and red paint was coming off. I have a nice big red spot on my sponge. Now would this mean that it is Clearcoat failure or what?



While I was rubbing it, it of course looked better. I sat there a few and let it dry up and you could see the white coming back but it did not look as bad. I will be going out there in a few more minutes to see if it has changed any.



Inputs guys!
 
Ok i just went to check and it "seems" as if I see more red peeking through the white. I feel that If im going to see major results Im going to have to get a PC and a cutting pad and possibly something stronger than the ColorX. Ive worked the same area about 5 times as hard as I can without much difference.
 
Another question.



Say this is clear coat failure....is there a possible way of at least hiding the whiteness? I know lots of you polish a "one-step paint job" and it looks as if its brand new with a very high gloss. Would this be possible for me. Right now I could care less if it is clear coat failure as long as I cant tell its there.
 
First off, ColorX uses chemicals to clean the paint and oxidation rather than abrasives. Iâ€â„¢m pretty sure that your 1996 would have a clear coat finish versus single stage paint, but the first thing you need to do is make sure of that. Do this by using ColorX on a light colored cloth or applicator on a good section of paint. If the cloth doesnâ€â„¢t pick up any red color then you definitely have clear coat.



Now if youâ€â„¢re getting red on your applicator in the bad areas, and it is a clear coat finish, then the clear has been seriously compromised in those areas and you do indeed have clear coat failure. Using an abrasive product with a PC and/or rotary will only remove more of the clear and ultimately leave it looking worse than it is.



The red you see peeking through the white is the red base coat, the white is the failing clear coat. It's going to be hard to hide this, but as I mentioned before a good sealer will last longer than the wax you were using. All you can do is give it a try.



Also, as I mentioned before, just go to two or three body shops and let them look at it first hand and tell you what they think.
 
Yea I know I have a clear coat finish.



I was talking about how to deal with the areas on my roof that are white.



Also the red that I see peeking through looks better than the white: true? Wouldnt It be better If i did polish up them areas to bring back the red?



Also why is it that many people polish non-clear coat cars and bring back the shine as if it did have a clear coat. Wouldnt I be able to do the same thing because in essence thats what my problem boils down to. One area with no clear coat. Cant I treat that area with the same products/processes you guys treat a non clear coat car and bring back the gloss?
 
CutNAction said:
......Also why is it that many people polish non-clear coat cars and bring back the shine as if it did have a clear coat. Wouldnt I be able to do the same thing because in essence thats what my problem boils down to. One area with no clear coat. Cant I treat that area with the same products/processes you guys treat a non clear coat car and bring back the gloss?
Click to expand...

Because single stage paint is different that the red base coat you have under the clear coat. Single stage paint is formulated to have gloss, whereas base coats are more âہ“flatâ€Â�, getting their gloss and protection from the clear.



You might be able to polish the base coat so it looks pretty decent, but any clear in the area is going to continue to fail. It will be an almost never ending cycle, plus the durability of a base coat w/o any clear is very questionable.



Iâ€â„¢d say the best you can do is preserve what you have as best you can with a good sealer until you can get it repainted.
 
Ok its becoming more clear to me now. Thanks for the explainations, but I still have questions...



I guess my ultimate question would be, how to HIDE the white. Right now I dont care if the spots are glossy, as long as they are red.



Will a sealer hide the defects? If so for how long and what would the best sealer be in this case?



Maybe a silly question but would a simple clear coat spray can from Autozone, etc fix my clear coat failure for the time being. Reason I ask this is because, wouldnt any clear coat be better than none? Now I know I will not get the professional finish with this, but it would at least give it a gloss and prevent future clear coat failure correct?
 
CutNAction said:
.........I guess my ultimate question would be, how to HIDE the white. Right now I dont care if the spots are glossy, as long as they are red........
Click to expand...

Since the white is failing clear coat youâ€â„¢d almost have to remove it for it not to show. You could spray it with rattle cans of clear from Auto Zone, but youâ€â„¢d have to wet-sand the existing clear off the panel (or area) in question, and the results would most likely not meet your expectations. If you were doing a small touch-up you could possibly get by doing that, but your areas are fairly large.



Maybe a glaze like Megâ€â„¢s #7 topped with a good wax like Megâ€â„¢s #16 or Collinite will give you a longer period of hiding the failing areas.



I really do feel your pain with this problem, but I canâ€â„¢t offer a miracle cure. Perhaps a body shop would prep and blend in some clear on the failing areas for a reasonable $$$, but the ultimate cure is the have those areas, or the whole car repainted.
 
Well I sure do appreciate all your help on this. Ive dealt with this long enough and just tired of messing with it.



My intial detail a few weeks ago were Megs #7 and Megs #26 and it gave it hid it for a little while.



Im not sure how familiar you are with Firebird/Trans Ams, but I repainted the rear lower part of my rear bumper black with spray paint and clear coat and it came out very well. I first wetsanded it and it came out just like I would have expected.



I may try to wetsand my roof and then polish it up and spray paint it with some clear. Here are a few pics of my car.



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You can barely see the rear bumper and this is before a couple of coats of clear.
 
CutNAction- OK, I'll be the bad guy here and come right out with the unpleasant truth: you need to get the damaged areas professionally repainted. Anthing else will be a waste of time, effort, and money and might even make the eventual (proper) repair more difficult/expensive. NO, you can't just redo the clear with a spray can. You can't hide the damage. There is no easy fix.



Just take it to a shop and get it done. It probably won't cost as much as you think and a decent painter will only need to do the damaged area (and blend it into the rest of the car). Do it now and you'll still be able to get some wax/sealant on it before winter is too bad (takes about a month or two for the fresh paint to cure, so get it done soon). Putting off the inevitable isn't a good idea ;) Hope this didn't sound too harsh :o but all this talk of temporary/DIY fixes is just unrealistic and I don't want you to have the wrong expectations.



And yeah, the Mazda is a classic example of acid rain damage. Often *that* isn't fixable either. By the time you take off enough clear to "fix" it, you'll set it up for the kind of failure we're talking about on the F-body. Polishing it up really well will make it less obvious, though.
 
No not harsh at all. Id much rather here the truth and what is possible and whats not.



I figured painting the roof would be upwards of around 200, but as I think more I doubt it should cost that much. I may go by a shop tommorow and see if I can get an estimate on this. Would you have any idea on pricing. As for right now, I am about to go back outside and put a little more colorx then Megs #7, and Megs #26 just to hide it for a few days. Thank you for chiming in with your wisdom!
 
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