How would you explain that at around the 2 year mark, "beading will turn into sheeting which is what we were after all along anyway " to a potential client?
I`m afraid I would get crazy looks.
"Permanent" Coatings
- Thread starter bad penny
- Start date
How would you explain that at around the 2 year mark, "beading will turn into sheeting which is what we were after all along anyway " to a potential client?
I`m afraid I would get crazy looks.
BudgetPlan1
Active member
It`s quite possible you would get crazy looks. Unfortunately I can`t speak to that possibility as the only person I have to answer to is myself....and even then I usually end up giving myself crazy looks.
RaskyR1
Rasky's Auto Detailing
If beading falls off that quickly it`s almost always due to lack of care by the owner (See Washing). I have several clients that take care of their cars going on over 4 years now with their coatings working as advertised. I`ve also had clients with beading that fell off within 6-12 months. The ones the fell off either failed to wash regularly and if/when they did wash it was just a touchless wash, which does not get the paint clean. If dirt is allowed to sit on the surface for a long time it will eventually start to bond to the surface and kill the hydrophobic properties. Winter chemicals can also clog up the coating but with regular washing and maybe an occasional decon (APC/Bug Squash) added in can keep them in check IME. With coatings you get out of them what you`re willing to put in. If you wash weekly or even bi-weekly you should have no trouble getting well over 2 years out of them, even without a topper. Up until this summer my longest running coating job (coated in 2010 with Opti-Coat) which I could still monitor was at 9 years and running until he traded it in for a new car last August. It was very well cared for, garaged, and only had 40,000 miles, but it was 9 YEARS! He always commented on how great it was and sent lots of work my way (I`ve worked with him for 14 years now and saw the car daily).
Just be honest about how the ceramic coating you apply on the customers vehical works during it`s lifetime. That it degrades over time but still with a good maintance they get the performance from it in the self cleaning ability from it and the ease of washing it and also the looks from it. This is if they maintain it great and if they don`t it will be swirled up if they keep maintain their vehical as they did before if it where neglected when you got it. Also that you can keep the performance from it at a higher level if you are getting to do maintance on it every 6 months. Or if the customer is interested to do it them self then tell them how to do it. Maybe not the best business way to go with the hype about ceramic coatings. But you will have many more customer for life this way. And also being known as someone who cares about their customer and don`t just leave them stranded after a application of a 5 year coating. And they comes in before it`s been 2 years. Wondering why their coating has not lasted and is swirled up again. And you tell them how they should have maintained it and get them more cost of the maintance on the coating from now on.
Some just like the polishing and the ceramic coating application. Then don`t care a crap about it after that. Decon and maintance is boring or something like that LOL. So it`s about how you as a business owner take care of your customers. IMO the huge difference is the longer time between the ones that you apply a sealant on and a ceramic coating. Also how long the claim is on the ceramic coating you use on customers vehicals. Personally I would use like a 3 year coating like say CQUK 3.0. And claim it`s a 2 year coating with 3 maintance visits. Or explain how they get 2 year out of it but without any warranty if they maintain it them self. Let`s say you offer the new Adam`s Ceramic Coating UV with a claimed longevity of 5 years. We don`t have any knowledge about if this coating lasts any near 5 years. What if it`s done after 3 years? Do you think even as a business owner that they will stand behind you and your customer to get it right? Maybe you have more backing up if you are a certified ceramic coating installer and have a contract with the brand you are useing. But I think that there is such many of loopholes in the warranty of thesekind of coatings. That those that fails earlier makes to have an unhappy customer to handle if such would be happening. So it`s takes a lot of thinking from a business view on how you will want it to be. I would like to cover my self as much as possible and also my customer too. Being that the fail risk is minimal for us both and we can have a good companionship for a long time. This I think that the brutal honesty is the way to go with. Both the great and the bad explained thoroughly before going with the customer and you takeing care of their vehicals for a long time. See it like a 6 months sealant that you decon and reapply it. But it with great maintance can give you the 2 years or so before doing the big reapplication with a finishing polish step and maybe some spot correction done. And you start all over again both happy hopefully. Upsell the wheel coating and trim coating and windshield coating which usually is 1 year ones. At the same time the extra maintance on the paint coating can be covered in the initial price of the paint coating. The extra time for decon and topper is usually not that time consuming. And with a slightly higher price for the paint coating with the upsell other coatings can be something good I think. Maybe have 1 year coating lite options too. With a primer polish this is a combo that you can get it from. Then you have the customer coming back more often too. And the amount of the coating lite products usually gets you more vehicals done at the same expense as a ceramic coating. A yearly finishing polish step with the primer polish also gives you some extra incomes more often. And depending on the customer it`s a benefit to have them coming in more often and they have a better looking vehical with coming in more often to you. A maintance every 6 months on this too and maybe upsell a glass sealant and trim sealant on these every 6 months. It`s many ways to go with it. But I would want to see the customers every 6months or yearly at least. And don`t fire and forget kind of way with a long lasting ceramic coating with a longevity from it over 3 years. So find out the positive in the different kind of protection products and what you can upsell on to different packages. And this has only been the exterior too. You have the interior carpets and vinyl and plastic and leather maintance and engine compartment and how you do with the door jambs and other jambs. And what`s included in the different packages. With prices that don`t scare customers away and also what`s in them and so on. Not easy to find out and the huge difference between where you live and also what kind of environment you have. Is the customers or the market maybe more interested in the interior or exterior. Many try to stay away from the interior these days. Maybe there is a more open market where you live. With great products you can make the maintance for you or the customer way easier in an interior today. And many customers values this more. And is satisfied with glossenhancment on the exterior with a sealant or coating lite range of durability from it. Finding something that sticks out in the competion you have from other detailers in your surroundings.
Oops sorry for getting away from the topic LOL. But with honesty you come a long way with a business in the long haul I think. And if I understand right you have or want a detailing business of some kind. If it`s for personally use you thinking about a ceramic coating. It`s the same as if you have a business. With a thorough decon every 6months with what`s needed depending on the contaminants you have gotten or not. And if the performance from it has degraded so much so a topper on it would raise the performance from it again is due to be doing. With the well knowned and proven consumer ceramic coatings. They have great maintance products in their line up that gives about the claimed longevity from it. With a generally normal daily driven vehical. If letting a detailer install the ceramic coating. Listen if he`s going about it honestly or if he`s up on the moon and talking about it. That`s something that I missing from the proffessional detailers here on the forum about shareing how they maintain a certified installed ceramic coating. And also when they getting in the vehicals for a reapplication of a such of a coating and if it`s been living up to the claims from it. A few have done it but would be interesting to see more of it from time to time. And there I did it again with rambling on LOL
Accumulator
Well-known member
I bet Pros with customers who care have to do a *lot* of explaining about things like Coatings vs. conventional LSPs, beading vs. sheeting, and a lot of other topics (including the whole can-o`-worms that is "marring"). I`d *expect* the beading/sheeting and expected durability topics to be pretty straightforward, especially if the Pros remember to underpromise (in hopes of overdelivering).
Though I do wonder how many customers really *do* care about the nitty-gritty of such topics.
Though I do wonder how many customers really *do* care about the nitty-gritty of such topics.
didnt you say on your website that mohs and csl appears to be more hydrophillic than hydrophobic so wouldnt you choose those over kamikaze? i recently put csl exo on my truck, loved how csl felt, not as much with exo on it, so i asked what about csl exo csl? i have no idea what the water behavior looks like nor do i really care since i cant really tell the difference. sort of like looking at a diamond with h or j color, i cant tell. so why not coat with csl and exo and top with exo every 6 months? or csl and top with csl every so often insead of overcoat or reload? just asking no idea how that would turn out. i was thinking of topping the csl exo with csl again just for ````s and giggles to bring back the slickness since thats really what i look for the most and 2nd being some kind of longer lasting protection than powerlock.
Ron Ketcham
Active member
Permanent coating applied to a paint surface that is not permanent?
Logic makes one question such a claim.
Logic makes one question such a claim.
BudgetPlan1
Active member
While they are kinda-hydrophillic, it`s not enough to keep it clean with minimal effort.
The whole point of this for me is to keep my cars as clean and protected w little effort and the best I`ve found for me and my laziness is Kamikaze.
Would require too much work. Easy now, wash then hit with Overcoat or Cosmic Spritz every now and again. Even those aren`t really necessary but more for fun/appearance change...and I gotta do something extra just for fun...when I want. But if I don`t do it, no harm, no foul.
Never know what combos will please ya until you try. I think CSL + Gyeon CanCoat is a nice combo...who woulda figured that.
There are multiple ways to `skin this cat` and now that I`ve found what works for me, not really looking for any more extensive experimentation. If one has the motivation and interest, the possibilities are endless with both existing and new products, just gotta find what works best for you...it`s the endless quest for the `best` but there probably isnt really such a thing so I`ll be happy with `best for me`
And worth noting, I`ve really got nothing to base any of my thoughts on other than what I see (as well as what I THINK I see) and trying to figure out maybe why so I`m really just kinda making it up as I go along.
i know what you mean about trying to keep cars clean with little effort is why i put uk+classic on my gf`s car but i topped with reload seeing how i read that was the way to go. now i regret topping it because i want to try putting on gliss on top of that. sounds like the majority of people use a maintenance type of product and i wonder is that really necessary. i am trying to avoid having to top a coating for maintenance after every wash or month. was hoping for a install it and forget about it kind of thing.
BudgetPlan1
Active member
Re: "Permanent" Coatings
Dating back to January 2017, the ones with a good coating always look better than the non-coated vehicles (or the ones with lesser coatings), still clean and shiny (relatively). Tar globs flick off easily, greasy palm prints, light chemical stains, nature debris...all clean off easily in the occasional touchless tunnel wash. They dont necessarily bead like they used to or the surface behavior is otherwise diminished but end of the day, they always look better than non-coated vehicles.
I probably top mine on occasion for a few reasons, and it`s mostly kinda like why I like a foam cannon...whether it really helps is up for debate but it`s easy, it`s quick, it entertains me and it can`t hurt.
I also do it on occasion for a change of appearance I think. I used to think it was possibly all in my mind but after using PA Cosmic Spritz on wifes Blue metallic car last wash (after only using Overcoat on it since 2016) she came home that night and asked what I did different so it must have been noticeable.
And in the case of Cosmic, it`s just so enjoyable to use that sometimes it seems like I`m washing the car not so much to get it clean overall as to get the surface ready to use the Cosmic...its just fun for me, the purple color, the smell, the feel of it going on and buffing off...its just fun (and not too much effort
).
Who knows though...maybe living in a house with products on shelves, in cabinets and everywhere else, her mind is becoming as confusingly clouded as mine.
I don`t think it`s necessary at all if you have a good coating. I have about 20 vehicles at work that dont even receive more than occasional soap/rinse tunnel wash much less a maintenance product.
Dating back to January 2017, the ones with a good coating always look better than the non-coated vehicles (or the ones with lesser coatings), still clean and shiny (relatively). Tar globs flick off easily, greasy palm prints, light chemical stains, nature debris...all clean off easily in the occasional touchless tunnel wash. They dont necessarily bead like they used to or the surface behavior is otherwise diminished but end of the day, they always look better than non-coated vehicles.
I probably top mine on occasion for a few reasons, and it`s mostly kinda like why I like a foam cannon...whether it really helps is up for debate but it`s easy, it`s quick, it entertains me and it can`t hurt.
I also do it on occasion for a change of appearance I think. I used to think it was possibly all in my mind but after using PA Cosmic Spritz on wifes Blue metallic car last wash (after only using Overcoat on it since 2016) she came home that night and asked what I did different so it must have been noticeable.
And in the case of Cosmic, it`s just so enjoyable to use that sometimes it seems like I`m washing the car not so much to get it clean overall as to get the surface ready to use the Cosmic...its just fun for me, the purple color, the smell, the feel of it going on and buffing off...its just fun (and not too much effort
).Who knows though...maybe living in a house with products on shelves, in cabinets and everywhere else, her mind is becoming as confusingly clouded as mine.
Coatings=crack
Active member
Re: "Permanent" Coatings
Im with you in the sense that i love the feel of cosmic going on. The looks definitely are a plus too. Adds pop. Its the only topper I’ve used so far to wow me. I did my rear deck lid with the OC you sent me and cosmic on a raw trunk lid. Id have to say OC slightly performed better but looks of Cosmic is a winner.
I get the whole “why top it?” Coatings came along to give a longer life than sealants. Its the Mr. Miyagi in me that wants to top it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don`t think it`s necessary at all if you have a good coating. I have about 20 vehicles at work that dont even receive more than occasional soap/rinse tunnel wash much less a maintenance product.
Dating back to January 2017, the ones with a good coating always look better than the non-coated vehicles (or the ones with lesser coatings), still clean and shiny (relatively). Tar globs flick off easily, greasy palm prints, light chemical stains, nature debris...all clean off easily in the occasional touchless tunnel wash. They dont necessarily bead like they used to or the surface behavior is otherwise diminished but end of the day, they always look better than non-coated vehicles.
I probably top mine on occasion for a few reasons, and it`s mostly kinda like why I like a foam cannon...whether it really helps is up for debate but it`s easy, it`s quick, it entertains me and it can`t hurt.
I also do it on occasion for a change of appearance I think. I used to think it was possibly all in my mind but after using PA Cosmic Spritz on wifes Blue metallic car last wash (after only using Overcoat on it since 2016) she came home that night and asked what I did different so it must have been noticeable.
And in the case of Cosmic, it`s just so enjoyable to use that sometimes it seems like I`m washing the car not so much to get it clean overall as to get the surface ready to use the Cosmic...its just fun for me, the purple color, the smell, the feel of it going on and buffing off...its just fun (and not too much effort
Who knows though...maybe living in a house with products on shelves, in cabinets and everywhere else, her mind is becoming as confusingly clouded as mine.
Im with you in the sense that i love the feel of cosmic going on. The looks definitely are a plus too. Adds pop. Its the only topper I’ve used so far to wow me. I did my rear deck lid with the OC you sent me and cosmic on a raw trunk lid. Id have to say OC slightly performed better but looks of Cosmic is a winner.
I get the whole “why top it?” Coatings came along to give a longer life than sealants. Its the Mr. Miyagi in me that wants to top it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
wannafbody
wannafbody
I just wrote a post about my experience with a coating type product. I think the product was called New Wheel or something similar. I`m not sure of the chemical composition of the product. But my experience is that after several years the product started to break down and turn cloudy. For this reason, I`d avoid any product that claims to be a permanent type product.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Thanks for specifying.
Same experience with Opti-Coat. I was pretty new to detailing around 2007 and had a black 2004 G35 that was driving me nuts with the soft paint. It was recommended to use Opti-Coat and when I was done getting the paint flawless, I applied the coating as directed and when I was done and years after every wash, I was blown away how awesome the paint looked. Each time, it looked like I just finished detailing the car. I would do a double take and to think I had no experience with coatings and I nailed it, right out of the gate. Now I can`t get any OC unless I am a professional. In my case it goes to show you that you don`t have to be a pro to get a professional result. I have since sold the car but I was always proud of how awesome that black paint looked with nothing more than a good washing on a weekly basis.
Now I am waiting on the sidelines for another OC like product that will last for years with proper maintenance and nothing else, and I mean not having to maintain with another product
