PC vs. UDM vs. Festool: Vibration comparision results are in

PolishAndWax said:
On my budget, $440 is excessive and I don't want the $360 version if it's going to heat up, so I'm looking for a cheaper alternative.
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At least three persons have in the meantime experienced bp flying off on Festool RO 150 FEQ. Also, as of say month ago there is a new tool on the market, Flex XC 3401 VRG that might prove as much better than Festool and can be had for $300 shipped. Search on both tools and posts by me will point you to all threads involving both tools and where you can get Flex for that price.
 
jmarm3 said:
So, are we saying that the festool is the ultimate detail machine... would you dry sand with it instead of wet sanding ..... and is it a random orbital and a rotary all in one ... im not getting this>Im very interested but im not understanding its capabilities. I was thinking of getting the cyclo and possibly the makita rotary 9927c, but if this thing does the job of both im going with it.
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You won't take out color sanding scratches with the Festool...and heavy oxidation or deep scratches will come out much faster with a rotary.



From what I can tell, it will do part of a rotary's job, allbeit a bit slower, but give you more safety and better end results than a rotary. It seems the two tools overlap a bit in the middle.



I will most likely pick up the Makita BO6040 to compliment my Dewalt DW849. The Festool is just too much $$$ and I doubt you'll ever see it for less than $440, unless you're looking at a used or reconditioned one. However, IMHO (based on what I've heard), it is the best. I'd get it in a heartbeat if it was under $300.



Although I get near-perfect results with my rotary, the forced RO should take me to perfect, especially on black. I doubt I'll need it on light colors.
 
ZoranC said:
At least three persons have in the meantime experienced bp flying off on Festool RO 150 FEQ. Also, as of say month ago there is a new tool on the market, Flex XC 3401 VRG that might prove as much better than Festool and can be had for $300 shipped. Search on both tools and posts by me will point you to all threads involving both tools and where you can get Flex for that price.
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Thanks...I'm on it. :D



EDIT: A little hard to find, but there is a dealer in my county.
 
PolishAndWax said:
Thanks...I'm on it. :D



EDIT: A little hard to find, but there is a dealer in my county.
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... or, if it proves to be a headache, you can just call guy I got it from. At $300 shipped XC 3401 VRG is positioned very well, it is only $50-ish more than BO6040 shipped, while, at least on paper, should be much better than BO6040.
 
ZoranC said:
... or, if it proves to be a headache, you can just call guy I got it from. At $300 shipped XC 3401 VRG is positioned very well, it is only $50-ish more than BO6040 shipped, while, at least on paper, should be much better than BO6040.
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Just curious...what are your reservations with the Makita?
 
PolishAndWax said:
Just curious...what are your reservations with the Makita?
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No reservations per se but just my personal "shopping" philosophy. If I am already looking for better tool I am already ready to spend more money. If I am already spending $250-ish plus what should I do, get Makita 6.6 A 5800 OPM at $250 or get Flex 7.5 A 9600 OPM at $300? Easy choice if $50 difference is not insurmountable. And even if $50 makes a difference right now as long as person is not in a rush he/she can keep on saving to be able to get Flex if that is what he/she really wants.
 
ZoranC said:
No reservations per se but just my personal "shopping" philosophy. If I am already looking for better tool I am already ready to spend more money. If I am already spending $250-ish plus what should I do, get Makita 6.6 A 5800 OPM at $250 or get Flex 7.5 A 9600 OPM at $300? Easy choice if $50 difference is not insurmountable. And even if $50 makes a difference right now as long as person is not in a rush he/she can keep on saving to be able to get Flex if that is what he/she really wants.
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Roger that. Just making sure there was no 'problem', per se, with the Makita.



Sounds like the Flex is on par or a slightly better value for the $$$.



So it looks like the OPM on the Flex beats the Festool?
 
PolishAndWax said:
Roger that. Just making sure there was no 'problem', per se, with the Makita.
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I am not aware of any systematic ones nor obvious ones (with disclaimer that I have not done extensive research on it nor worked with it).



PolishAndWax said:
Sounds like the Flex is on par or a slightly better value for the $$$.
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I am inclined to say that IMHO Flex is much better value because Flex was designed to be fit for the task while Makita was designed with woodworkers in mind.



PolishAndWax said:
So it looks like the OPM on the Flex beats the Festool?
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Yes, but at expense of RPMs. Question is which one matters more. Again, Flex was designed for this exact purpose (car polishing in professional environment) while Festool is aimed primarily for woodworkers.
 
Quick question on part of the original thread: I have some neck problems and can't really deal with a whole lot of vibration (for example, can't use a mower due to the vibrations). How much vibration does the UDM transmit to the user? I'm only planning on using it to make applying and removing sealants (JW Prime and AJ type of stuff), not really for any corrections.



Thanks.
 
MrAP said:
Quick question on part of the original thread: I have some neck problems and can't really deal with a whole lot of vibration (for example, can't use a mower due to the vibrations). How much vibration does the UDM transmit to the user? I'm only planning on using it to make applying and removing sealants (JW Prime and AJ type of stuff), not really for any corrections.
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If you can't use mower I would guess UDM might still be too much for you. However, that is a guess. Only way to know for sure is if you find somebody that has UDM and you try it. On the other hand, if applying and removing sealants is your only interest you might be fine with any of cheapo random orbitals sold around for that. Also, follow my experiments on high OPM low throw sanders. It might turn out they fit your goal plus could do some paint correction.
 
Sorry for the possibly noob question, but don't the cheapo random orbitals (I'm thinking of stuff in the $30-$40 or so range) cause swirls and similar defects? Right now, the family pride and joy has no swirls, but it takes me about 10 hours (and about as many Advil) to wash, clay, wash, apply and remove Prime and AJ :| I was hoping a machine would make it quicker and less painful (less Advil is good!).



I'll search for your high OPM low throw sanders, but if you feel like it, link(s) would be gratefully accepted ;)



Thanks!
 
MrAP said:
don't the cheapo random orbitals (I'm thinking of stuff in the $30-$40 or so range) cause swirls and similar defects?
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With a disclaimer that I am far from expert on tools from what I know about them as long as you are just applying and removing sealants and waxes and you are using pad that is sufficiently gentle those tools will not be cause of defects, starting from fact they do not have enough power (unless we are talking cheapo rotary).



How gentle pad is is a big factor with any tool, many sell / use pads that are rough, and it is often a pad that is a cause of swirl.



MrAP said:
I'll search for your high OPM low throw sanders, but if you feel like it, link(s) would be gratefully accepted ;)
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http://autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/93485-5-polisher-13k-opm-small-throw.html?highlight=opm*

http://autopia.org/forum/machine-po...g-review-yet-2.html?highlight=opm*#post985468



... and more to come as soon as I have a chance to try out Ridgid R2611 and either Bosch 3107DVS or Metabo SX E 425.



DeWalt D26453 had enough power for basic paint cleaning (did not try it for sealant/wax applying/removal) with practically no vibrations I could feel.
 
PolishAndWax said:
I will most likely pick up the Makita BO6040 to compliment my Dewalt DW849. The Festool is just too much $$$ and I doubt you'll ever see it for less than $440, unless you're looking at a used or reconditioned one. However, IMHO (based on what I've heard), it is the best. I'd get it in a heartbeat if it was under $300.



Although I get near-perfect results with my rotary, the forced RO should take me to perfect, especially on black. I doubt I'll need it on light colors.
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I use the BO6040 and can't speak highly enough of it. It has a high 670 RPM and that's more significant to me than OPM.
 
Alfisti said:
I use the BO6040 and can't speak highly enough of it. It has a high 670 RPM and that's more significant to me than OPM.
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Could you please share why you feel 40% more RPMs than Flex 3401 (670 vs. 480) is worth more than 3401's 65% more OPMs plus more aggressive orbit diameter (9600 OPMs 8mm for Flex vs. 5800 OPMs 5.5mm for Makita)?



I am curious because I am sure there must be a good reason for preferring specs of what is designed to be a wood sander to what was designed to be car polisher for automotive industry.
 
ZoranC said:
No reservations per se but just my personal "shopping" philosophy. If I am already looking for better tool I am already ready to spend more money. If I am already spending $250-ish plus what should I do, get Makita 6.6 A 5800 OPM at $250 or get Flex 7.5 A 9600 OPM at $300? Easy choice if $50 difference is not insurmountable. And even if $50 makes a difference right now as long as person is not in a rush he/she can keep on saving to be able to get Flex if that is what he/she really wants.
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Roger that.



I am in touch with Flex's mfr's rep for my area to get a demo set up at my friend's body shop. Again, my friend is SOLD on the Festool, but for my customers, it's just too expensive.



If this tool is close to being as good or maybe even better than the Festool 150 FEQ, I will probably end up becoming a distributor and selling them.



I am really starting to see a shift from PC's and the like to forced rotation RO's...I think it's going to be the next big thing in machine polishing especially as safer, higher-quality polishes come out (IMHO, anyway).



UPDATE: The rep doesn't have any yet (new item), so it will be 1-2 weeks before we can do a demo. :cry:
 
PolishAndWax said:
The Flex tool is in and the demo is set for Wednesday at 11 AM at my buddy's body shop.



I'll let you guys know how it goes.
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Cool! :2thumbs: I see you didn't have insurmountable obstacles, like others did. :2thumbs:
 
ZoranC said:
Cool! :2thumbs: I see you didn't have insurmountable obstacles, like others did. :2thumbs:
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Flame removed.



I'm not sure what the issue is between you two (apparently I missed a flare up in a different thread), but the open forums isn't the place to hash it out.



Ruttrow, consider this a warning. If it happens again, someone's going to timeout. And ZoranC, please don't go stirring the pot.



-- Tort (moderator)
 
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