PakShak Vs Adam's Vs Cobra for Polishing

[GBynum]

Are you talking about CarPro Eraser? I'll look into the ones you mentioned,thank you.


 


So basically, after polishing/compounding *maybe* use <span>AkraClean or CarPro Eraser to get rid of the oils. But if I'm using a non-diminishing compound, use the M34 as it is better at removing the abrasives, then *maybe* follow that with <span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'helvetica neue', helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">AkraClean or CarPro to remove the oils. 


 


<span>As far as the *maybe's* are concerned:
<p style="margin-left:40px;"><span>The impression that I got was not that the oils needed to be removed for the sake of removing oils or because they are bad for the LSP, but because it allows one to better check the quality of their work by making sure the surface is all that they are seeing (no defects missed because they're hidden/filled). So yes, I would agree that it is a maybe. I'm not going to want to be quite that detailed every single time. I may just have a minor imperfection I'm working out, in which case it's not necessary. 

 

[GBynum]

I wanted to reply to the rest separately: 


 

BlueBeast14GT- I absolutely would *NOT* use those Griot's towels (the white-with-red-border ones).  I sent mine back after seeing what they did to paint.

 


What did they do to the paint?! This is the first I have heard of this. The bad reviews I saw in the past were all about linting or people thought they were too thin and fell apart. But others said the exact opposite, so I just thought it was a hit-or-miss type product, or that a bad batch went out at some point. (I have found it often helps to look for a pattern to the dates that reviews are posted. A product may get complaints for an isolated period due to a manufacturing mistake that is not indicative of the usual quality)


 


 

Compound until problems are gone, maybe use something to remove oils/etc. to ensure accurate assessment; Finish Polish, maybe use something to remove oils/etc. (note that "maybe"  yeah, that's Autopian Heresy but I'm saying it anyhow!), do your LSP, reapply same now and then before it needs doing.

 


I noticed you specified finish polish. Since my car is so new I was going to try to avoid using compound for quite a while. I figured most of the defects I'll deal with are just light swirly and such, so I could just use a more abrasive polish if I have to. Should I always follow that with a finishing polish prior to the LSP? I got some Meg's Mirror Glaze Polish for Christmas, not sure which one, but the cutting level on the front was rated at 4. That's the strongest I planned on using, at least for now.


 


I also got some Meg's Glaze for Christmas, but again I can't remember which one off hand. I need to go back and re-read the thread about wax vs sealant. I know, unrelated, this just made me think of that.
 

 

Oh, and while I don't hate the stuff the way some people do, I simply don't use Simple Green on cars. 

 


Why don't you? Is there another APC you prefer? I like simple green, but honestly I haven't used it much on the car itself. I used it a little for wheels, but that's it. I use a mix of simple green, GG microfiber/pad cleaner, and vinegar to soak my towels, then I use that same mix with a tiny amount of unscented laundry detergent for machine washing. SG is also what CoverCraft recommends for washing my car cover. I used some SG just last week with dawn and vinegar to soak the sole of my shoe for like 3 days because I stepped in something my dog left behind that apparently melded with the rubber tred on an atomic level. My only issue with it is the smell. The SG, not my dog's little gift. I enjoy the SG smell, but it sticks around, and I feel like others can smell it. Like I enjoy the smell of peanut butter, but if I went around smelling like it all the time people would think I'm a big weirdo.


 
 

And I seldom dilute IPA on the rare occasions that I use it.

 





I use it for cleaning a lot, straight up, but I started using it for detailing (every now and then) after reading a post by Mike Phillips at AG about how to dilute different ratios. He recommended 12%, saying the 50/50 mix is overkill for most applications. It's worked for me so far.

 

[Accumulator]

(Note that the PC I'm using is having trouble using quote/past/copy features...)


 


BlueBeast14GT- The Griot's polishing cloths were simply crappy- not soft/plush enough, marred paint, utterly unacceptable.  I sent them back with a scathing review.  While I understand about production variations, my view is "why use those?".  Countless better cloths out there IMO.


 


Note that Meguiar's makes a *LOT* of "Mirror Glaze" polishes and glazes.  While some were great in their day, I'd be very careful about using products from that line on your car.  Many are not even "polishes" in the usual sense of the term.   What exactly do you have?


 


I only use (functionally abrasive) polishes when I need to improve the finish by, well...abrading it.  I do *NOT* polish every time I LSP, I don't use a paint cleaner every time, I don't even clay every time (I know, more of my Autopian Heresy).  I don't do one *bit* of this stuff unless I really consider it necessary.


 


But note that when you do have flaws to correct, many people are astounded by how aggressive they need to get even though the flaws seemed *so* minor.  No, you generally don't want to be more aggressive than necessary, but would you rather spend a few minutes leveling the paint with a compound, or a few hours leveling it with a mil polish?  Done correctly, any correction/leveling oughta end up removing the same amount of paint anyhow (i.e., only as much as you need to remove to "fix the flaws").


 


Simple Green has been known (definite, clear-cut, no-question-about-it *known and proven*) to do cosmetic damage in certain circumstances.  It clouds bare aluminum and a guy here ruined a set of VW factory wheels (cleared, should've been impervious to damage) by cleaning them with it; he didn't notice the gradual damage until they were trashed.  So IMO there's no reason to use the stuff when there are equally effective products that do *not* do any damage to automotive surfaces (when used correctly). 


 


I won't criticize using Simple Green for other/household jobs, but in my case there's no reason to as I have all those other products to choose from.


 


Note that people/companies recommend using all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons, and many of those reasons have nothing to do with how the recommended products will behave in your situation.  I would never use any Simple Green to wash a car cover under any circumstances.  Not mixed/diluted/whatever.  Period.  Never.  But hey, that's me.


 


And similarly, I use use IPA straight with no problems, and if others choose to dilute it that's fine by me.  Heh heh, Mike Phillips (whom I've known since seemingly forever) and I don't always agree 100% and that's OK by both of us.

 

[GBynum]

Well thanks for the heads up on the GG. That'll save me some cash


 


I forgot to check on those products, and now I'm at work again. I'll look tonight.


 


If the job requires it, I'm not opposed to using a stronger product. I would just rather start soft so I don't get any more abrasive than I have to (another tip I think I picked up from Mike Phillips haha). And yeah I don't clay/polish every time either, and I don't want to. I'm just researching as much as possible so when I do it I don't have to learn from mistakes that could permanently scar my car.


 


So would a non-"functionally-abrasive" polish not abrade the surface? If not, then what does it do?


 


Speaking of which, very interesting about the wheels! I won't be using SG on mine anymore. 


 


Yeah I figured the recommendation of SG could just be a business deal, but I also didn't think they would recommend it if it was bad for the cover. What would you recommend I use? And so you know, I wash it at a local laundromat in a large machine with no agitator and with no softener. I hang-dry it in my basement on a pvc contraption I built.


 


Also, what APCs do you like, if any?

 

[GBynum]

but I also didn't think they would recommend it if it was bad for the cover.

although, my first cover shrank when I followed their instructions and washed it in warm water...

 

[GBynum]

Ok, I checked the Meg's products. They are #9 Swirl Remover and #3 Machine Glaze

 

[Accumulator]

BlueBeast14GT- Eh, those would've been OK relative to our discussion about caring for fresh paint as both are fresh paint-friendly.  But otherwise.....


 


The M-3 is functionally nonabrasive, and the M09 is too for most practical purposes (its abrasives are *SO* gentle and so easily broken down that they won't cut unless you use a rotary polisher and the right pad).  Both fill minor flaws and leave lots of those Trade Secret Oils behind but that's about *all* that either will do.


 


Honestly (and I have used both since forever and still have bottles of 'em on the shelf), I believe that using either one *for anything other than every-wash glazing of fresh paint* would be a wate of time and effort.  Now on old-school single stage paint, like original-paint classic cars.....that's different; those products would be great for that.  But for basecoat/clearcoat paint....eh, no thanks.


 


Oh, and no surprise that the cover shrank even with proper/gentle care.  All of mine always did, both natural and synthetic materials.  Yep, every. single one.  Best you can hope for IME is that they're cut large enough to still fit OK.  But then the whole use of car covers is another topic upon which I'm kinda opinionated

 

[GBynum]

So for minor stuff like swirls, what would you recommend? I went light because abrasion just freaks me out haha.


 


I wash the thing on cold now. Luckily they were nice enough to replace it. If, and apparently when, it shrinks again, hopefully they'll replace it again.


 


So do you have a recommendation for a cover cleaning product? I saw a lot of people saying they use Woolite. 

 

[Accumulator]

BlueBeast14GT- For the light marring....do you plan to keep it marring-free (this is my approach, and in this case I'd correct it with whatever it takes) or do you think it's always gonna end up with the light degree of marring (in which case I'd try to conceal it with something like the Meg's stuff or something similar)?  I know that's more of my  Autopian Heresy because here at Autopia everybody is supposedly keeping their paint flawlessly unmarred all the time, but I suspect that can be a tall order for most people. I think it pays to do a truly realistic assessment of each person's situation and go from there.


 


You're *smart* to be leery of the abrasion!  Polishing out marring all the time will use up your clearcoat and also your time (and maybe your enthusiasm for this stuff).


 


Pick a spot on the car that has representative marring.  Try hiding it with a gentle by-hand try with the M09 and follow with wax.  See if it satisfies you. 


 


I *have* to hide marring on my old Audi (original owner trashed the paint  and now it's too thin for any more polishing) and it works out fine for me as long as I don't get all Autopian about it the way I do with my other vehicles.  Hey, it's a dark blue pearl that is pretty unforgiving about showing flaws and I keep that nasty beater car so nice that the dealer once called while it was in for service...."what wax do you use?  Customers keep asking why it looks better then their newer cars!".   FWIW I use 1Z WaxPolishSoft (not sure if it's still available) topped with Collinite wax and I plan to start using Meguiar's Ultimate Quick Wax (AKA D156) after each wash as that supposedly hides minor flaws well and oughta be quick/easy to use.  Imperfection can look just fine in the real world


 


I haven't washed a car cover in decades, and I used stuff called "Car Cover Detergent" from the now-gone Beverly Hills Motoring Accessories.  I guess the Woolite would be as good as anything, but I'd sure pre-treat any "automotive stains" like carbon/black stuff because a detergent made to gently wash nice delicate clothing is gonna have trouble with nasty stains.  Eh....I question how much the detergent really has to do with it anyhow.  If I had to wash a car cover I'd use one of the Microfiber Detergents.

 

[GBynum]

....do you plan to keep it marring-free...


....I suspect that can be a tall order for most people. I think it pays to do a truly realistic assessment of each person's situation and go from there.

Man you have no idea how good it feels to hear you say that. People on these forums act like every car should be in a bubble 24/7.


Unfortunately I live in the city, so I have no garage. I'm lucky to have a driveway, so I don't have to park on the street and I have a place to detail. Unfortunately it's gravel and has 2 large trees looming over it, one of which drops berries, both of which drop bird s**t.


 


Plus it's my daily driver, so unmarred is just unrealistic for me. I protect it with a car cover daily when it's [mostly] clean. Today was one of just 2 times I used the cover when the car was super dirty. I figure I can easily fix swirls from dirt/salt getting rubbed into the paint; damage from debris blowing around in the 50+ mph winds would be more difficult...


 


So bottom line, yeah I think the light Meg's products would satisfy me just covering minor stuff. I can do some more serious corrections more seldom, or when large defects present themselves. 


 



 

You're *smart* to be leery of the abrasion!  Polishing out marring all the time will use up your clearcoat and also your time (and maybe your enthusiasm for this stuff).

That is exactly what I'm afraid of. I know I can't go a year between polishing like you, as much as I'd love to. If I had the extra cash for a beater, I'd get one, and rent out a garage for my baby, but that's just not realistic right now. Plus yeah it would get old doing that all the time haha. 
 



 

Pick a spot on the car that has representative marring.  Try hiding it with a gentle by-hand try with the M09 and follow with wax.  See if it satisfies you. 

As leery as I am of abrasion, I think I'm even more perturbed by the idea of hand polishing. Chalk it up to trauma from my experiences with Meg's Ult Polish (refer to the polish towel thread). Man that stuff dries so fast it's impossible. I'm hoping to have a better experience with these other products since MUP is the only polish I have used so far. I know, such a newb haha.


 

I *have* to hide marring on my old Audi (original owner trashed the paint  and now it's too thin for any more polishing) and it works out fine for me as long as I don't get all Autopian about it the way I do with my other vehicles.  Hey, it's a dark blue pearl that is pretty unforgiving about showing flaws and I keep that nasty beater car so nice that the dealer once called while it was in for service...."what wax do you use?  Customers keep asking why it looks better then their newer cars!".   FWIW I use 1Z WaxPolishSoft (not sure if it's still available) topped with Collinite wax and I plan to start using Meguiar's Ultimate Quick Wax (AKA D156) after each wash as that supposedly hides minor flaws well and oughta be quick/easy to use.  Imperfection can look just fine in the real world 

Thank you as usual for the product tips Yeah mine is dark blue as well, so it shows the defects pretty well, not as bad as the black one I had... Holy crap, recommending a Meg's product, I'm shocked lol.

 



 

I haven't washed a car cover in decades, and I used stuff called "Car Cover Detergent" from the now-gone Beverly Hills Motoring Accessories.  I guess the Woolite would be as good as anything, but I'd sure pre-treat any "automotive stains" like carbon/black stuff because a detergent made to gently wash nice delicate clothing is gonna have trouble with nasty stains.  Eh....I question how much the detergent really has to do with it anyhow.  If I had to wash a car cover I'd use one of the Microfiber Detergents.

CoverCraft warns that certain chemicals can affect the ability of the cover to resist water. Although, now I'm wondering how legitimate their claims are. The only spots I really get stains are where the cover touches the tires. They don't come out, and those areas only touch the tires, so I don't worry about it. I'll try out the Woolite first since the MF detergents are kinda pricey. 

 

[Accumulator]

BlueBeast14GT- Heh heh, I have no problem recommending Meguiar's products...well, not their *good* ones at any rate.  It's just that some of their stuff is, uhm...not so great and some of their stuff gets marketed in ways that can lead to unrealistic expectations and thus disappointment.


 


In your situation (outside, etc.) the "hide what you can, improve some of what bugs you, live with the rest" seems perfectly reasonable.  That car sure isn't living in a bubble and I assume you have a life beyond detailing


 


Tough trade-off regarding the cover- leave it uncovered when dirty and risk etching/nasty contamination from birds/etc. or cover it when dirty and mar up the paint.  I'd be giving thought to using a *very* protective LSP so that you might not feel the need to cover it so much (if at all?  Well, I can dream...).


 


OK...I shouldn't even say this, but here goes- next time, buy a white car.  SO easy to keep really, *really* nice looking even in a situation like yours. Piece of cake compared to anything else (and yeah, I always have several silver cars so I do know from living with all the various colors).  Gee, I bet that was helpful :huh:


 


And while I'm at it..it's really easy for me to spend your money, but you're right about hand polishing (i.e., "polishing" in the sense of doing correction).  Buy a polisher.  Seriously.  I know, I know...but anybody who can afford a decent car and a cover can afford a polisher.  Consider it one of those "mandatory options" that you just have to spend the $ on.  The Harbor Freight one isn't all that pricey and will be a lot better than nothing (or buy a Griot's and be even more satisfied).  With the right products, a polisher like that will make such a huge diff that I simply can't express it.  Even for jobs where it's not mandatory for decent results, you might find that you simply like it much better than doing stuff by-hand (that's how it is with me).


 


SO, save up some money for a polisher and pads.  In the meantime, next time you do a wash pick a *small and thus manageable* representative area and see how that M09 works for you.  You could even go over it again with the M03 (yeah, it works fine by hand) and then wax it.  DO NOT let either the M09 or M03 dry all the way before you buff them off.  DO let your wax dry all the way before you buff it off, and don't use an excessive amount of anything.


 


Oh, speaking of spending your money, while YMMV (and others report experiences that differ from mine), I find that the MF Detergents are worth the money because they simply work where other stuff won't, and MFs are too pricey to replace over bad laundering.  Get a gallon of the stuff next time somebody has a cheap brand (e.g., 3D Towel Clean or the Chemical Guys stuff) on sale and save it for when you need it.


 


Ya know, on the cover's water resistance, I wonder if it's some kind of treatment that's gonna wear away/wash out over time.  None of mine worked all that great in that regard anyhow, even the ones that were marketed as being so wonderful for that.

 

[GBynum]

Accumulator-


 


I do try to keep it heavily protected. But I also hate when I wax it then get berries. It's protected, but I just did all that work haha. My 03 Mustang was white, and you are right, it is much easier to keep clean, but I love this color. I'd rather do the extra work to keep it looking nice


 


I'm considering buying a metal/fabric car canopy, or building one out of pvc and a tarp. Even if I can't put one up permanently, an E-z Up would be good for shading the car when I'm detailing. And if I can put it up permanently, then that'll keep the birds, berries, and sticks off.


 


Lol don't worry I spent someone else's money and got a DA polisher for christmas. It's the Meg's G110V2. I did a lot of research and it came down to that or the GG DA. The Meg's just seemed to have a better track record for quality. I bought a few pads, but I want to test them out before I get more. I haven't had a chance to use it yet. The only machine I have used before was an orbital from Autozone, and that was years ago. I'm going to practice on my girlfriend's Eclipse first so I don't mess up my paint


 


I do have some MF detergent, it just seems like it would take a lot to do a cover. Maybe not though. I'll definitely give it a try. So far I've just used GG Microfiber & Pad Cleaner. 

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/micro+fiber+and+foam+pad+cleaner+35+ounces.do

I got a sweet deal back in December, Amazon was giving a free 35oz container with the purchase of a gallon of any GG product, so I got the MF/pad cleaner. That's what I was saying I mix with the all free & clean, and sometimes simple green and vinegar, to wash my towels. And yeah I fully agree, way too expensive. I wash and store them all separately by use, dry them on the lowest possible setting, and never mix them with non-MF.


 


Yeah it still lets some water through, but that's okay. The cover still protects from more severe falling objects and that's what I got it for. I finished washing my car one day, and a stick fell right in the center of my hood as I was admiring it. I went straight to my computer and ordered the cover haha.

 

[Accumulator]

BlueBeast14GT- Now that you mention it (and doing the Eclipse), I think I do recall your getting that Meg's Polisher.  Heh heh, you won't even mess up any swirlmarks using it with the M09! [Repeat hard-sell regarding HD Cut and Polish  ]


 


Yeah, the EZ Up might be just the thing, some people really like them.


 


I'll come right out and say that your situation is one where the cover makes sense, and I'm generally rather negatively inclined towards them (if you couldn't tell).

 

[GBynum]

BlueBeast14GT- Now that you mention it (and doing the Eclipse), I think I do recall your getting that Meg's Polisher.  Heh heh, you won't even mess up any swirlmarks using it with the M09! [Repeat hard-sell regarding HD Cut and Polish  ]


 


Yeah, the EZ Up might be just the thing, some people really like them.


 


I'll come right out and say that your situation is one where the cover makes sense, and I'm generally rather negatively inclined towards them (if you couldn't tell).

 


I don't even recall telling you about the megs polisher lol. I actually will use harsher stuff on the eclipse since the paint needs more work. Hey maybe I'll learn how to use the harsher stuff so I can utilize it when I need to on the Mustang! By "you won't mess up any swirlmarks" do you mean I won't correct them? I think you meant to say I won't cause any, but if "mess up" is what you meant to say then that's really funny


 


The canopy will have to wait now. I just found an amazing deal on the wheels I've been wanting and I jumped on it. So now I'm super broke for a while.


 


Haha yeah I could tell you don't like them. I understand, I wish I didn't need one, but it's the best solution I have found. I'm surprised you agree haha

 

[Accumulator]

BlueBeast14GT- Yeah, I was being a smart@$$ regarding the mildness of the M09; it won't do any significant correction. 


 


And no, I really don't think you'll really mess up anything using the polisher and/or the products you have no matter what.  Just do a test spot and post back with a "help!" here in case something does go haywire; I'm confident that there won't be any big problems.


 


Oh, and broke or not, I'd spend the  money for some OptiCoat and get it on the wheels before you put 'em on the car.  Seriously, it really is worth doing and I'm not the biggest fan of coatings (generally speaking).

 

[GBynum]

Yeah I'm more concerned with making mistakes with stronger stuff that I don't have yet. 


 


Opticoat- oh man that stuff scares the hell out of me. It's not like a wax where if I screw up I just need a little elbow grease. I mess that stuff up and I gotta bring in a professional!


 


I read one thread where a guy thought it was like wax, so he let it dry on. I do not envy that guy.

 

[GBynum]

By the way, the wheels are not new, they're take-offs. I don't know if that changes whether I should use the opticoat.

 

[Accumulator]

BlueBeast14GT- I'm utterly confident that you can properly apply the OptiCoat (wouldn't have suggested it othewise ).  Really.  Don't worry about what some, uhm..... individual ...did when he used it in some, uhm.....odd manner, you exhibit zero indication that you're the type of person who would have problems with the stuff.


 


All I've ever used it on is wheels (primarily used wheels at that).  The one set ("polished"/"machined"/chrome-like) that I did first would be the type to show *any* issues with the OptiCoat.  I didn't knock myself out applying it, just did the "thin but adequate, tried to be uniform" thing like it says on the label and it worked out fine.  Did another set (painted spokes with machined accents, all cleared) and it went great even though I was almost purposefuly less meticulous than I'd been on the first set; again, zero issues.


 


Hope the take-offs are in nice shape.  I'd go over them with a mild (and user-friendly!) polish like the HD Polish, maybe use something more aggressive on the back sides (something like HD Cut). Wipe off with IPA or wash with APC (IIRC I did both), and then apply the OptiCoat.  Wait a few days and do another coat.  I'm about to redo that first set (after a few years!) and that's what I'm gonna do.  Don't use the Meguiar's stuff as it leaves too much stuff (oils, etc.) behind.

 

[GBynum]

Haha well thank you for the confidence booster.


 


They are in great condition, except for a scratch/chip on one. The guy was up front about it, said he doesn't know how it happened. It looks like he just grazed something or had a really unlucky shot with some road debris. So I'm going to have that wheel reconditioned. Even so, it's still a great deal compared to what other people were selling them for!


 


Other than that I could only see a tiny bit of swirls/imperfections, probably from him cleaning them to show me. He had them coated in plasti-dip from about 10 miles to when he got his new wheels, so it's like they've been hermetically sealed for most of their life.


 


Opticoat advises prepping the surface before hand, so thank you for the polish tips I was thinking about applying it with one of those Mother's drill attachments, probably the cone to get into corners better. Do you have any experience with it? I don't think there's a way to get in there with a proper DA polisher. 


 


Buy the way, do you recommend the HD polishes for the rest of the car's painted surfaces as well?


 


Did you have a preference for APC? I'm trying to find something to replace my Simple Green since you warned me against it (thank you).

 

[Accumulator]

BlueBeast14GT- Please post something if you find a good wheel refinishing place.  My experiences have varied more that I'd like.


 


Be careful with those Mother's cones.  I wouldn't use one and, well...perhaps that's a hint.  I'd just use a 3" pad/plate setup on the DA and do the tight spots by hand.  And I probably wouldn't go nuts trying for perfection, at least not in this case (daily driver, other areas of concern that will take up plenty of your time/effort).


 


Yes, I do recommend the HD Polishes.  SO much more impressive than I'd expected, *very* user-friendly.  My only issue is that their Cut is pretty mild IMO so for really aggressive work I prefer something like Meguiar's M105 or 101.


 


The HD APC (their green stuff) is another product that impressed me more than I'd expected. I've been using up my (many) gallons of EFHI but AFAIK that's off the market and it's not really anything special, just what I'm accustomed to using (so don't bother researching "EFHI").  I used to use P21s Total Auto Wash, and it's great stuff, but IMHO it's not worth the price.


 


I sure don't want to sound like a shill for HD....the fact that they own Autopia is actually the primary reason why I resisted trying/recommending their stuff for so long.  But now that I have tried it, well...I use/recommend it without reservation.