imported_Dude
New member
Darbh- thank you! Lately I have been looking at car covers.
P085rd plus H20 Crimson pads has really impressed me.
- Thread starter Josiah
- Start date
I used to pay $12-13 for each miracle towel I got. I gave them away as x-mas gifts, I only used them. My towel in the bathroom costs probably a dollar.
I personally think microfiber production is a little easier to quality control than cotton in a raw material sense (since all materials are man made for the mf). It took awhile for mf to even hit the automotive industry, and only until then did people start scrutinizing, scratching and linting.
American chemical companies like 3M and Dow have excellent quality control, it's just too bad that they don't make towels as plush as the ones we like for our cars. It would be better to have the best of both worlds: American company with very plush towels. The one's I talk to have no immediate means to go to plush because somethin like....we are not trying to replace plush terry cotton, the point of mf is small and thin. And maybe they're right, a whole market isn't going to change just because Autopians want it
BTW, FI-II works wonders on wrinkles
I personally think microfiber production is a little easier to quality control than cotton in a raw material sense (since all materials are man made for the mf). It took awhile for mf to even hit the automotive industry, and only until then did people start scrutinizing, scratching and linting.
American chemical companies like 3M and Dow have excellent quality control, it's just too bad that they don't make towels as plush as the ones we like for our cars. It would be better to have the best of both worlds: American company with very plush towels. The one's I talk to have no immediate means to go to plush because somethin like....we are not trying to replace plush terry cotton, the point of mf is small and thin. And maybe they're right, a whole market isn't going to change just because Autopians want it
BTW, FI-II works wonders on wrinkles
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
Menzerna PO85rd and Lake Country H20 Crimson Pad
Those of us who use Menzerna PO85rd with a dual-action polisher (or even a rotary polisher) and more traditional polishing pads have probably experienced the same frustrating drawback. Menzerna PO85rd is still (years and years after its original introduction by propeautocare.com) one of the finest finishing polishes in the world, but can be one of the most frustrating.
The first time you polish a section of your car with 85rd, it works beautifully, leaving a brilliant luster, and wiping away clean from the paint with minimal effort. But as your polishing pad becomes more saturated (with the ?super? lubes in the polish) it becomes difficult to assess when the polish breaks down. As your micro fiber towel becomes saturated with oils, it becomes difficult to remove the oils from the paint. The alternative is to use a lot of fresh pads and a lot of fresh towels.
The H20 line of pads from Lake Country feature non reticulated foam pads. This means that the cells of the foam are closed, thus they are often referred to as closed cell pads. Most traditional foam buffing pads feature reticulated foam (open celled pads) which under a microscope resemble more a net.
The advantage of the non-reticulated foam used on the H20 pads is that it greatly limit?s the absorption of lubrications (and abrasives) through the pad, and tends to keep both at the surface. This is because the cells of the pad are closed (like a bunch of little balls glued together) instead of the net like structure of regular foams. When used with polishes such as Menzerna PO85rd, this means that the polish is keep on the surface, where it works quicker, and absorbs less.
The end result is that PO85rd will break down consistently and much faster then with more traditional pads where the polish is sucked into the pad like a sponge (and squeezed back out, and in again, and out). With a fresh pad the difference is slight, but after 3 or 4 panels the difference becomes great. In theory you should achieve more cutting action (my having all of the abrasives in contact with the paint at the same time), faster breakdown down (since the oscillating action of a Dual Action polisher is going to keep squeezing lubricant and fresh abrasives out of the pad) and a cleaner, higher gloss finish (since all of the abrasives will breakdown faster).
There is a trade-off when using the H20 pads however. The foam itself (the closed cell structure) is not as durable as more traditional pads: The net like structure of traditional foams is less effected by the twist and flex of polishing, compared to the ball like structure of closed cell pads. Also the pads have to be allowed to dry completely after washing otherwise they become more prone to failure. I have not noticed any durability issues with the softer Crimson finishing foam, but it is worth pointing out that there is no perfect product. If better results in less time are worth the longer clean times and penitential lower durability, then the H20 Crimson pad is definitely for you.
I have used PO85rd and Crimson pads for my last 12 details and do not seem myself going back to more traditional foams for finishing on a DA, personally. I think it is a combination that many lovers of Menzerna?s excellent finishing polish with enjoy.
Those of us who use Menzerna PO85rd with a dual-action polisher (or even a rotary polisher) and more traditional polishing pads have probably experienced the same frustrating drawback. Menzerna PO85rd is still (years and years after its original introduction by propeautocare.com) one of the finest finishing polishes in the world, but can be one of the most frustrating.
The first time you polish a section of your car with 85rd, it works beautifully, leaving a brilliant luster, and wiping away clean from the paint with minimal effort. But as your polishing pad becomes more saturated (with the ?super? lubes in the polish) it becomes difficult to assess when the polish breaks down. As your micro fiber towel becomes saturated with oils, it becomes difficult to remove the oils from the paint. The alternative is to use a lot of fresh pads and a lot of fresh towels.
The H20 line of pads from Lake Country feature non reticulated foam pads. This means that the cells of the foam are closed, thus they are often referred to as closed cell pads. Most traditional foam buffing pads feature reticulated foam (open celled pads) which under a microscope resemble more a net.
The advantage of the non-reticulated foam used on the H20 pads is that it greatly limit?s the absorption of lubrications (and abrasives) through the pad, and tends to keep both at the surface. This is because the cells of the pad are closed (like a bunch of little balls glued together) instead of the net like structure of regular foams. When used with polishes such as Menzerna PO85rd, this means that the polish is keep on the surface, where it works quicker, and absorbs less.
The end result is that PO85rd will break down consistently and much faster then with more traditional pads where the polish is sucked into the pad like a sponge (and squeezed back out, and in again, and out). With a fresh pad the difference is slight, but after 3 or 4 panels the difference becomes great. In theory you should achieve more cutting action (my having all of the abrasives in contact with the paint at the same time), faster breakdown down (since the oscillating action of a Dual Action polisher is going to keep squeezing lubricant and fresh abrasives out of the pad) and a cleaner, higher gloss finish (since all of the abrasives will breakdown faster).
There is a trade-off when using the H20 pads however. The foam itself (the closed cell structure) is not as durable as more traditional pads: The net like structure of traditional foams is less effected by the twist and flex of polishing, compared to the ball like structure of closed cell pads. Also the pads have to be allowed to dry completely after washing otherwise they become more prone to failure. I have not noticed any durability issues with the softer Crimson finishing foam, but it is worth pointing out that there is no perfect product. If better results in less time are worth the longer clean times and penitential lower durability, then the H20 Crimson pad is definitely for you.
I have used PO85rd and Crimson pads for my last 12 details and do not seem myself going back to more traditional foams for finishing on a DA, personally. I think it is a combination that many lovers of Menzerna?s excellent finishing polish with enjoy.
You are preaching to the choir my friend....
I have been using the death out of my crimson h20's paired with 85rd and I am very happy...
To offset the long dry times I just purchase them in bulk so that while some are drying other can be in rotation (pun intented)
I have been using the death out of my crimson h20's paired with 85rd and I am very happy...
To offset the long dry times I just purchase them in bulk so that while some are drying other can be in rotation (pun intented)
bmw5541
New member
Good information.
Thanks Todd!
Thanks Todd!
Jeff U
Member
What other pads are closed cell?
What about Meguiars Soft Buff 2.0 ? (I did not see mentioned in the description page)
What about Meguiars Soft Buff 2.0 ? (I did not see mentioned in the description page)
imported_glfahlc
New member
new info to me, thanks todd. i'll have to research these some more as i like the effect that menzerna final polish has on my paint...
CEE DOG
New member
I need to spend some more time with my Crimson pads! I have used the tangerine and Cyan HT's a lot. The crimson I only used briefly to test it out but it sounds like my test was not a fair one since I didn't use it long enough to get all of the benefits you noted. Using it as a new pad testing it against the grey LC flat I barely noticed a difference in the results. I need to get the pads back out and do a complete vehicle with the crimson as my finisher. You said after 3 or 4 panels... So at what point did you switch to a fresh crimson pad?
imported_porta
New member
All Meguiars are open cell.
Lake Country white is a closed cell. If you want to know if the foam is open cell(reticulated) or closed cell (non reticulated). Take your lips against the foam and blow, if the air passes trough easy = open cell, if you cant blow trough the foam = closed cell. Now out in the garage and try
imported_Bunky
New member
Nice to know. From what I have been reading from other H20 pad users (cyan,tangerine), that you just need to switch out pads about 2x as often than non-H20 pad for maximum benefits so basically your pad usage doubles per job.
imported_RickRack
New member
Thanks for the review Todd.
I bought one, but haven't had the chance to try it out yet.
There's a black Porsche sitting at the shop with the pads name on it...
I bought one, but haven't had the chance to try it out yet.
There's a black Porsche sitting at the shop with the pads name on it...
imported_POPPAJ
New member
All Meguiars are open cell.
Lake Country white is a closed cell. If you want to know if the foam is open cell(reticulated) or closed cell (non reticulated). Take your lips against the foam and blow, if the air passes trough easy = open cell, if you cant blow trough the foam = closed cell. Now out in the garage and try
Photos please!!
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
Meguiar's newest Softbuff 2.0 Maroon (cutting) foam is also a closed cell pad. Also the higher the PPI of the pad (Pore Per Inch) the more likely it is act like a closed cell pad, as the spaces between the pores shrink slowing absortion of the product.
This is why a super high PPI pad such as Lake Countries Gold foam (100 PPI +) is so effective at applying LSP's. Their is very little absorbtion of the product into the pad, so more of it is spread across the paint.
imported_porta
New member
So it's not the same foam in the 2,0 version of Meguiars cutting pads? Interesting.
I got a big load of some new pads from a swedish manufacturer(well, the foam is from Germany)
I got a big load of some new pads from a swedish manufacturer(well, the foam is from Germany)
imported_porta
New member
imported_Sal329
New member
What DA are you using? Speed? What size pads? Ever try LC Gold and 85rd for finishing?
imported_Bunky
New member
The LC white also seems to be a closed cell pad. It is unlike any regular LC standard CCS or flat foam pad.
imported_Flash Gordon
New member
I don't have a problem sniffing wax, but blowing a pad is where I draw the line 