Oxidation - Came back after 1 week

Big Kahuna

New member
I just did a 2001 VW Passat with dark grey paint. It had oxidation on the hood and roof that looked cloudy. I applied SSR2.5 2-3x with LC Yellow Pad and it appeared removed. I fininshed it with UPP and it was very nice.

Upon returning the next week to apply wax, I noticed the oxidation reappeared. Not as heavy as the original, but never the less really visible.

What happened? How do I need to do?
 
Maybe you just didn't mention these steps, or just forgot to do them.

I would,

1 Wash
2 Clay
3 Wash
4 Polish W/ SSR2.5 & LC Yellow pad
5 Maybe polish W/SSR1 & LC White pad
6 UPP

The more seasoned vets should chime in soon.
 
Hmm. The SSR line should have removed the defects as it has no fillers. I have never really worked with badly oxidized paint, however. I would agree with Jay in that I would try the SSR 1 with the white pad to really polish the oxidation down. You said it appeared to be better, so the 2.5 must have done its job. Give it a try and let us know.

Mike :mohawk
 
Well, I did...

1 Wash
2 Clay
3 QD - Malco Showroom Shine to wipe
4 Polish W/ SSR2.5 & LC Yellow pad (2x) (Use QD to wipe)
5 UPP

I skipped SSR1 as it looked very good. No oxidation or noticeable swirls. The oxidation looked like it had been removed. :dunno
 
I skipped SSR1 as it looked very good. No oxidation or noticeable swirls. The oxidation looked like it had been removed.
trust me, always go with a lighter polish after an abrasive. u may not tell right away, but when u see it under different lighting like a gas station or direct sunlight, u'll notice. try taping of a lil sectiona nd polish it downw ith a lighter abrasive after 2.5. when u peel back the tape, u'll definately notice the side by side comparison

yes u did remove the oxiidation, but u left behind hazing behind from ssr2.5. thaTS WHY IT DIDNT LOOK LIKE THE OXIDATION THE FIRST TIME, BUT MORE LIKE A LIGHT CLOUDING OF THE PAINT.when using a polish like that, make sure to always use a lighter polish, to clean up the hazing and/or any micromarring u might have left. oxidation doesnt come back so quickly, especially not if u had a coat of upp protecting it.

Hmm. The SSR line should have removed the defects as it has no fillers. I have never really worked with badly oxidized paint, however. I would agree with Jay in that I would try the SSR 1 with the white pad to really polish the oxidation down. You said it appeared to be better, so the 2.5 must have done its job. Give it a try and let us know.

oxidation would have been removed the first time and polishing using a lighter abrasive would do nothing to the defects the stronger polish couldnt handle. polishes with fillers would have done nothing to help the look of oxidation. fillers only fill in things like scratches and swirls.

try to always follow the general rules when it comes to doing a full detail. claying, light polishing after an abrasive, ect are the things that add wow factor to a finish.

happy detailing
joy
 
clearcoats don't oxidize like paint...they usually have a haze from a multitude of fine scratches (if you take a magnifying glass or loop to the finish you will see this more clearly), unless it is clearcoat failure, which is not very likely on a 2001. i think the scratches that were remaining were hidden by the QD ..it's a "showroom shine" meaning gloss enhancer or silicone which would give an artificial shine of its own. Use iso/water mixture if you need to or step down to a lighter polish before your LSP...
 
OK, anybody that's really interested in obtaining the maximum potential from their paint finish should consider the following:

First, one should get a jeweler's loupe (as Steve suggested), or an illuminated magnifying tool like this one:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=63-1133

Next, get a spray bottle and fill it with a 50/50 mix of isopropyl alcohol and distilled water.

Get several quality terry applicators.

Get as many high quality MF towels as you can.

Get a good chemical paint cleaner like Medallion Premium Pain Cleaner, Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner or similar. IMHO, a polish, or even a cleaner polish is NOT a substitute for this step. If you are using a rotary buffer with a "cut cleaner" (compound) you probably won't need the paint cleaner, but I still like to use a chemical paint cleaner first, unless I've wet-sanded and know I will need to use the compound.

If using a PC, get at least two or 3 clean polishing pads that are in excellent condition.

Get a good medium abrasive polish, a medium light polish, and a good final polish.

What does a chemical paint cleaner do?

It removes old wax/sealants, imbedded contaminates and oxidation.
It will remove some extremely light, superficial swirls/spider web marks.
It actually adds an extremely light polishing step to your process… smooth, clean paint.
It gets the paint squeaky clean without imparting any additional imperfections.
It allows you to see "exactly" what condition your paint is in, which allows you to pick the correct product/pad for the next steps… the polishing/cutting steps.
This also keeps the old wax, contaminates, and oxidation out of your buffing pads… which keeps the pads cleaner and makes the polishing work better.

Paint cleaning Process:

Wash

Clay if you like.

Using the terry apps and the chemical paint cleaner, clean the paint once by hand.

Mist on some of the 50/50 mix of alcohol and distilled water and lightly wipe the area clean.

Check several areas of paint with the magnifying tool.

If you don't see any oxidation, decide on which polish/pad combination you will start the polishing process with (this takes some experience - I'll add some suggestions)

If you still see some oxidation (shouldn't see much), perform the paint cleaning process again.

Make sure that it is oxidation and not "buffer haze" (as Steve mentioned). The magnification light will help.

If it is buffer haze or swirls/spider web marks, proceed to the next step...

Paint polishing/Swirl removal:

If you saw "buffer haze" in the previous step, chances are you will need to go right to the moderate polish and the polishing pad. As a matter of fact, if the buffer haze is significant, the PC and the polish pad or even a cutting pad may not "cut it". It may require a rotary and a more abrasive polish… hard to tell without seeing/experiencing it.

If you saw significant swirls/light scratches in the previous step, again, you will probably need to go to the PC, polishing pad, and the moderately abrasive polish.

If you saw very light swirls in the previous step, you can probably go with the polishing pad and the medium light polish.

I you saw almost no swirls/spider web marks… you're very lucky, :D and you can probably go right to the final polish and your LSP.

Suggestions:

That said, here's what I would suggest. Keep in mind that my suggestion comes from considerable experience, as my process is a "highly modified" version of the often preferred method of "use the least abrasive product first" method. However, with a little experience and some common sense, this method is very efficient and gives excellent results…

Start by viewing the paint with the lighted magnification. Try to take a mental picture of the level of the swirls, haze and imperfections.

Assuming you have "buffer haze", or significant swirls. (usually the case)

Take the PC, polishing pad and the moderately abrasive polish and work at 2' x 2' area according to the directions for use with the polish.

Take the 50/50 mix of alcohol and wipe the area down.

Check the area with lighted magnification.

If you were hardly able to touch the swirls/haze, you probably need to use a rotary buffer and a more abrasive polish or be prepared for a "grueling" session with the PC and your moderate polish with repeated applications… this still may only reap "so-so" results. Sorry, this is why they make rotary buffers and cutting compounds.

If you were able to reduce the swirls significantly (say 40-50% of them), but they are still "noticeable", you might be on the right track… make another pass. Check with the 50/50 mix after each pass and take that "mental picture" again.

If (or when) you were/are able to remove most (say 80 - 90%) of the swirls in one or two passes, you are probably ready to step down to a lighter polish and finish them off with a pass or two. Stepping down a couple of notches is a good thing, as it adds "polishing" steps to the process… smooth, bright, clean paint, and continues to remove the swirls with lesser abrasive products, which saves your paint. Check with the 50/50 mix after each pass.

If one has removed all the swirls in one pass, you probably selected a product/pad combination that was too aggressive… this is how one learns.

Anyhow, the point I'm trying to make is this… if one really wants to become proficient at this stuff, it's a lot more than "following an order of steps", or buying certain products. It's about understanding those steps/products, and being observant about what those steps/products are actually doing… or not doing.

Of course, this is just my 2 cents and I hope it helps anyone interested.
 
Yep, my post was more for people who are trying to get a handle on this stuff. I know you guys already have a good handle on it.

What I was trying to emphasize even more than the paint cleaner use, was the need to observe and pay attention to how the paint is reacting to pad/product/process you are using on it. It's a lot more than "following some steps"!

As you guys know, once you have acquired that skill, your personal saying goes FROM: "start by using the least abrasive product" TO: "start by using the most affective abrasive to get the job done with the least amount of work".
 
As Mr. Poorboy said, clear coats don't oxidize like single stage paints. It may be paint overspray from a repair job or it might be getting paint overspray from somewhere, perhaps while parked at work? Even though you clayed it may need to be done several times to get it all off. If it is paint marring then you need to abrade away the top layer of paint, that portion of paint containg the defect. Either that or you can use a glaze to hide the defect temporarily.
 
I appreciate everyone's input and I've learned a few new tips in the process. I'll try Boss_429 example of the chemical paint cleaning process and follow-up SSR2.5 with SSR1 as suggested by many.

I took another at the car and it did not look like hazing as I've seen it in other posts. It was only cloudy in the exact area where the original oxidation was and I did the entire hood and roof. It was much lighter than before I started. Maybe the QD helped hide the remaining oxidation, but I don't see how as the QD I use is mostly water. I'll try the 50/50 alcohol/water mixture.

Boss_429, the radio shack microscope brought back memories of my childhood, when I used things like that to look for bugs. :D As for lighting, I was working directly under fluorescent lighting and later sunlight. I viewed it from various angles.

I'll give another try!

Aloha All!
 
Big Kahuna said:
I took another at the car and it did not look like hazing as I've seen it in other posts. It was only cloudy in the exact area where the original oxidation was and I did the entire hood and roof. It was much lighter than before I started. Maybe the QD helped hide the remaining oxidation, but I don't see how as the QD I use is mostly water. I'll try the 50/50 alcohol/water mixture.
Aloha All!
Big Kahuna,

Yep, clean the area that is giving you the issues. If it is still there and you are sure that it is not buffer haze, then the clear-coat could be damaged? Did someone use a rotary buffer on the vehicle before? It sounds like the paint could be burnt in that spot? It could also be other issues with the paint.
 
I'm going to have to agree with you Boss_429 on that the clear may be more damaged than anticipated. After reading and viewing much more oxidized finish on this forum, I just had a hard time realizing what I am facing.

Thanks.
 
Howzit HawnElement! Haven't been seeing your posts lately. You must be really busy. I guess you remembered who I am. If not, I'm the one with the Volvo XC-90. Sorry I didn't call, but after our conversations I've decided to give it a try. No problemos! I really do appreciate all your help and suggestions. Since our talks, I've purchased many products from Ranney.

The Passat I'm talking about is my friend's. I would be most grateful if you could look at it and give me advise on this. It may just need a couple more passes of SSR or it may be gone beyond repair. I just wanted to try and help her save $$$$ from a repaint job.

Thanks for offerring to take pics. I'll bring us some plate lunches! :cool
 
Boss_429 said:
OK, anybody that's really interested in obtaining the maximum potential from their paint finish should consider the following:

First, one should get a jeweler's loupe (as Steve suggested), or an illuminated magnifying tool like this one:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=63-1133

Next, get a spray bottle and fill it with a 50/50 mix of isopropyl alcohol and distilled water.

Get several quality terry applicators.

Get as many high quality MF towels as you can.

Get a good chemical paint cleaner like Medallion Premium Pain Cleaner, Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner or similar. IMHO, a polish, or even a cleaner polish is NOT a substitute for this step. If you are using a rotary buffer with a "cut cleaner" (compound) you probably won't need the paint cleaner, but I still like to use a chemical paint cleaner first, unless I've wet-sanded and know I will need to use the compound.

If using a PC, get at least two or 3 clean polishing pads that are in excellent condition.

Get a good medium abrasive polish, a medium light polish, and a good final polish.

What does a chemical paint cleaner do?

It removes old wax/sealants, imbedded contaminates and oxidation.
It will remove some extremely light, superficial swirls/spider web marks.
It actually adds an extremely light polishing step to your process… smooth, clean paint.
It gets the paint squeaky clean without imparting any additional imperfections.
It allows you to see "exactly" what condition your paint is in, which allows you to pick the correct product/pad for the next steps… the polishing/cutting steps.
This also keeps the old wax, contaminates, and oxidation out of your buffing pads… which keeps the pads cleaner and makes the polishing work better.

Paint cleaning Process:

Wash

Clay if you like.

Using the terry apps and the chemical paint cleaner, clean the paint once by hand.

Mist on some of the 50/50 mix of alcohol and distilled water and lightly wipe the area clean.

Check several areas of paint with the magnifying tool.

If you don't see any oxidation, decide on which polish/pad combination you will start the polishing process with (this takes some experience - I'll add some suggestions)

If you still see some oxidation (shouldn't see much), perform the paint cleaning process again.

Make sure that it is oxidation and not "buffer haze" (as Steve mentioned). The magnification light will help.

If it is buffer haze or swirls/spider web marks, proceed to the next step...

Paint polishing/Swirl removal:

If you saw "buffer haze" in the previous step, chances are you will need to go right to the moderate polish and the polishing pad. As a matter of fact, if the buffer haze is significant, the PC and the polish pad or even a cutting pad may not "cut it". It may require a rotary and a more abrasive polish… hard to tell without seeing/experiencing it.

If you saw significant swirls/light scratches in the previous step, again, you will probably need to go to the PC, polishing pad, and the moderately abrasive polish.

If you saw very light swirls in the previous step, you can probably go with the polishing pad and the medium light polish.

I you saw almost no swirls/spider web marks… you're very lucky, :D and you can probably go right to the final polish and your LSP.

Suggestions:

That said, here's what I would suggest. Keep in mind that my suggestion comes from considerable experience, as my process is a "highly modified" version of the often preferred method of "use the least abrasive product first" method. However, with a little experience and some common sense, this method is very efficient and gives excellent results…

Start by viewing the paint with the lighted magnification. Try to take a mental picture of the level of the swirls, haze and imperfections.

Assuming you have "buffer haze", or significant swirls. (usually the case)

Take the PC, polishing pad and the moderately abrasive polish and work at 2' x 2' area according to the directions for use with the polish.

Take the 50/50 mix of alcohol and wipe the area down.

Check the area with lighted magnification.

If you were hardly able to touch the swirls/haze, you probably need to use a rotary buffer and a more abrasive polish or be prepared for a "grueling" session with the PC and your moderate polish with repeated applications… this still may only reap "so-so" results. Sorry, this is why they make rotary buffers and cutting compounds.

If you were able to reduce the swirls significantly (say 40-50% of them), but they are still "noticeable", you might be on the right track… make another pass. Check with the 50/50 mix after each pass and take that "mental picture" again.

If (or when) you were/are able to remove most (say 80 - 90%) of the swirls in one or two passes, you are probably ready to step down to a lighter polish and finish them off with a pass or two. Stepping down a couple of notches is a good thing, as it adds "polishing" steps to the process… smooth, bright, clean paint, and continues to remove the swirls with lesser abrasive products, which saves your paint. Check with the 50/50 mix after each pass.

If one has removed all the swirls in one pass, you probably selected a product/pad combination that was too aggressive… this is how one learns.

Anyhow, the point I'm trying to make is this… if one really wants to become proficient at this stuff, it's a lot more than "following an order of steps", or buying certain products. It's about understanding those steps/products, and being observant about what those steps/products are actually doing… or not doing.

Of course, this is just my 2 cents and I hope it helps anyone interested.
Sounds more like your "10 cents". Good advice
 
Just something to consider.
The paint may be in worse condition than you realize.
For lack of a better description, it may be dead.
We had a 1995 Honda Prelude in the family that would look great for about a month and then it would start looking bad again. It did look like oxidation on single stage paint. I used Meg's #9, Klasse AIO, and 4 Star UPP and after a month, it looked like some/many areas had not been waxed for years.
I did ask a friend that has a body shop about it and all he could tell me is that it is common with some paints and especially Honda reds. He has no idea why. He said the Honda red will often fade to different shades of pink and purple.
My point being that it might not be something you can permanently correct.
:dunno
Charles
 
Boss_429: No rotary buffer was used. The cloudy area was there before any correction was performed. Owner only used otc products.

CharlesW: That was always a concern I didn't want to admit. I'm running out of options and I may think you are correct. The owner did take it to a professional detailer prior to me and she said the detailer took a sensing device to measure the thickness of the clearcoat. He determined that it was too far gone and it wouldn't make sense for him to try to correct it with a rotary. He detailed it and it disappeared for a couple days before it returned. My PC with SSR2.5 and UPP made it disappeared for about 5 days. The owner also agreed that the oxidation was less noticeable.

I probably will give it a couple more tries with SSR2.5.
 
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