ONR vs N-914

That`s a a lot of fun. ONR is just the most amazing thing. Nothing has ever replaced it for me as a Rinseless, but there are better Waterless washes and MUCH better QDs, but as a Rinseless Wash, it`s still the champ IMO.
 
That test is cool looking and it shows how ONR works. But the test doesn’t really prove anything in terms of a comparison. Look at other regular car wash soaps. They aren’t going to separate out either but they have been proven to work over long term use and tests. The same then can go for the N419.

I buy ONR by the gallon and I have bought and used the N419 as well. I find N419 slicker in the wash feeling but I prefer using MF wash tools instead of the foam sponges because the foaming seems to cause me some frustration when filling and squeezing the sponges. I don’t get that when using MF.

One of my complaints with ONR has always been the staining of the wash media. I think it comes from the zwitter ionic formula that this test shows. But other rinseless washes don’t have that issue because they are formulated and go about it differently.
 
TroyScherer said:


One of my complaints with ONR has always been the staining of the wash media. I think it comes from the zwitter ionic formula that this test shows.
Click to expand...

That was always my gripe with ONR also. The latest formula isn`t supposed to do that anymore, or at least be significantly improved. I bought a small bottle of the new formula (both flavors), but I haven`t gotten to try them yet, still using the old stuff up. I guess it`s already been almost a year and a half since they came out with this V.4 formula, the ONRWW new formula came a little later: https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-detailing-product-discussion/192045-formula-onr.html?highlight=
 
I used an older version. The thing I didn`t like is that it didn`t wipe clean and left a sticky residue. This was most apparent on vinyl decals. To me Duragloss Rinseless is a better product. Also, soy based products might be acidic. I know that some soy based products can`t be shipped by pipeline.
 
For me when using a WW I don’t like ones that get beaded up by surface protection I always felt wiping a a pane with beaded up onr or 914 would lead to scratches. The only product that sets the whole surface for me is Feynlab rinseless there maybe more because I have not tried them all. Between the 2 u posted 914 was better I thought good post
 
ONR leaves a bit behind on the panel, I like using Griots Brilliant Finish as it leaves nothing behind and also does a good job of separating the dirt and Feynlab Pure Rinseless as it is just so effective and also leaves nothing behind.
 
TroyScherer said:
That test is cool looking and it shows how ONR works. But the test doesn’t really prove anything in terms of a comparison. Look at other regular car wash soaps. They aren’t going to separate out either but they have been proven to work over long term use and tests. The same then can go for the N419.

I buy ONR by the gallon and I have bought and used the N419 as well. I find N419 slicker in the wash feeling but I prefer using MF wash tools instead of the foam sponges because the foaming seems to cause me some frustration when filling and squeezing the sponges. I don’t get that when using MF.

One of my complaints with ONR has always been the staining of the wash media. I think it comes from the zwitter ionic formula that this test shows. But other rinseless washes don’t have that issue because they are formulated and go about it differently.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I`ve used quite a bit of both. N-914 has more cleaning power and feels slicker. I also use multiple MF towels and a prespray. That being said, I`d be comfortable using either rinseless washes.


roscopervis said:
ONR leaves a bit behind on the panel, I like using Griots Brilliant Finish as it leaves nothing behind and also does a good job of separating the dirt and Feynlab Pure Rinseless as it is just so effective and also leaves nothing behind.
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This always seems up for debate. Yvan Lacroix, when he worked for optimum, said that ONR "hypercleans" and doesn`t leave anything behind.
 
Would you ceramic coat on top of an entirely clean and panel wiped car, that has then been rinseless washed with ONR? I have seen side by side chemical resistance tests of waxes and sealants applied on an ONR cleaned section and a panel wiped section and I some cases, the ONR sections start to fail quicker.
 
Ah, interesting info! FWIW...

Maybe the more recent formulations are different from what I have, but my ONR *absolutely* leaves [something] behind. After a few years of using it as my household dusting spray, the items I`ve used it on have a shiny/slick/"just waxed" effect that`s impossible to disregard.

Similarly, whenever I used that version of ONR (by itself) on wheels, they were a *bear* to clean the next time!

So at least some versions do leave stuff behind, and/but whether that`s a bug or a feature is situational/subjective.
 
roscopervis said:
Would you ceramic coat on top of an entirely clean and panel wiped car, that has then been rinseless washed with ONR? I have seen side by side chemical resistance tests of waxes and sealants applied on an ONR cleaned section and a panel wiped section and I some cases, the ONR sections start to fail quicker.
Click to expand...

Here’s a response on the N914 video

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Well as far as how to clean wash media that has been used with ONR, here`s my thread on this very subject
The summation/final analysis/subjective conclusion is in post #30 (there`s more good discussion beyond that post about cleaning wash media!):
https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-...crofiber-wash-media-using-onr.html?highlight=

Edit: In the Setec Astronomy`s "New Formua ONR" linked thread, I linked THE SAME microfiber cleaning thread as I have above. I guess the old axiom "History repeats itself" is true! Or more-so, "The left hand knoweth not what the right hand doeth." (Or how `bout, "You`re an idiot, Captain Obvious!")

I never did get a good answer to my question about which wash media is best for using with a Rinselss Wash in the above linked about cleaning wash media used with ONR.
 
rand0m said:
...
This always seems up for debate. Yvan Lacroix, when he worked for optimum, said that ONR "hypercleans" and doesn`t leave anything behind.
Click to expand...

Seems like an important tidbit...

I feel like sharing my experience with the two requires the preface "The version of ONR I have", since I don`t know how to identify what generation formula it is (I think the bottle says "new formula", but what does that even mean without a date?).

I bought ONR when it was a real forum darling (here and on AG). I feel like love for it waned for a while and it seems to be having a resurgence (at least regarding how much it gets talked about - I know the people that love it never stop loving it). It`s definitely a great product to have on hand, but ironically of all the things to use it for, Rinseless washing is the last thing I do with it. I stopped using it for that after confirming that the car accumulated more bonded road film when I was using ONR vs other rinseless washes or other wash types with the same LSP (If memory serves, I was high on Optimum at the time so I believe it was Opti-Seal at the time).This was based on car appearance, not what was showing up on the wash media FWIW.

Accumulator said:
Ah, interesting info! FWIW...

Maybe the more recent formulations are different from what I have, but my ONR *absolutely* leaves [something] behind. After a few years of using it as my household dusting spray, the items I`ve used it on have a shiny/slick/"just waxed" effect that`s impossible to disregard.

Similarly, whenever I used that version of ONR (by itself) on wheels, they were a *bear* to clean the next time!

So at least some versions do leave stuff behind, and/but whether that`s a bug or a feature is situational/subjective.
Click to expand...

My experience echoes yours regarding how it does leave something behind (your wheels being harder to clean sounds like my road film issue).

My most frequent use for ONR these days is as a floor cleaner at home - hardwood/linoleum/tile, it works well to clean but not leave the floor so slick that either my 7yo or either Great Dane mix are yard sailing every time they hit the hard floor.

It does work well for melting people funk off of hard plastics (turn signal/wiper stalks, light switches, etc). I like the ONR WW better for doing wood trim inside cars.

I also use it all the time at work after I`ve done a major underhood repair to clean and "dress" the underhood plastics - leaves everything looking fresh but not greasy. This is on civilian cars; If I had someone that actually looked like they actually had their car some level of detailed I wouldn`t mess with something that could leave something behind.

For N-914, it`s worked fine for me.

I actually prefer the experience with the Griot`s Brilliant Finish Rinseless slightly better (just seems to final wipe easier for me), though I`m not 1000% sure that the Griot`s in fact leaves nothing behind. I`ve used the Griot`s as a glass cleaner for the house and it seemed like there was more water beading than you`d expect for plain ol house glass, but truth be told I don`t remember what I used prior (that could have left something behind. I feel like Sonax Glass cleaner may also leave something, but again I`ve not done any scientific testing).

That being said, even if the Griot`s is leaving a dash of something behind, I`ve not had any change in water behavior of the LSP nor the road film issue I had with ONR, so it`s nothing that would ever stop me from using it.
 
Lonnie said:
I never did get a good answer to my question about which wash media is best for using with a Rinselss Wash in the above linked about cleaning wash media used with ONR.
Click to expand...

I`m afraid that`s going to be entirely subjective but I personally like to use "bone" type microfiber sponges, actually my favorite is the old Meguiar`s QD sponges from almost 20 years ago that I picked up a lot of at Big Lots--when the sponge breaks down inside after a number of washings, it becomes something like a cross between a MF sponge and an MF towel. I have bought some of the hairier MF sponges from TRC/MFT/MM...trying to like them.

Oneheadlite said:
I feel like sharing my experience with the two requires the preface "The version of ONR I have", since I don`t know how to identify what generation formula it is (I think the bottle says "new formula", but what does that even mean without a date?).
Click to expand...

I feel like I went through a version dating somewhere in another thread, I actually have "V.3" sharpied on one of my bottles to keep track. As you note, when they come out with a new version, they just put that "new version" label on it, which doesn`t help. One thing to note is that V.3 was when they changed over to transparent bottles from the translucent, if that helps you any.

Oneheadlite said:
My most frequent use for ONR these days is as a floor cleaner at home - hardwood/linoleum/tile, it works well to clean but not leave the floor so slick that either my 7yo or either Great Dane mix are yard sailing every time they hit the hard floor.
Click to expand...

I too, perhaps inspired by Accumulator, have been using ONR as a floor cleaner and dusting aid to try and use up the old stuff. A couple times I used UWW and it was very slippery.

As to your other comment about the waxing and waning of ONR enthusiasm, I was one of the many who being an Optimum fan at the time, ultimately moved on to other rinseless washes like DG, WG, although I circled back a bit when ONRWW came out, but that still had the staining problem, so I bought a big jug of Ech2O when they were blowing them out when they changed from gallons to liters or something (that stuff is really in a different class of product, not really relevant in this discussion). Over on the Optimum forum people are gushing about the goodness of the new versions of ONR, so I`m hoping when I eventually get to use the new versions (about 2029 based on my current car wash rate), they will be good.
 
Wax Addict:
I assume you have some type of de-ionizing water filtering system, like a CR Spotless, to MAKE de-ionized water at home of your water supply, whether it be residential well of ground water or municipal (local government department) water.

Since this thread has been focused more on discussing ONR and its various refinements/reformulations/versions, one question I have is, "Does ONR soften hard water"? Or is this a wife`s tail/conspiracy theory/detailing myth? I thought that I remember reading somewhere in this forum that by adding ONR to hard water (IE, any water with a high-dissolved naturally-occurring mineral content, like calcium or sulfur, along with the wash soap of choice (specifically Optimum`s Car Wash Soap) for a two-bucket wash, it was SUPPOSE to "soften" the water due to ONR`s encapsulation properties. Yes, I have tried this, but my subjective analysis came to no definitive conclusion as to its effectiveness in softening hard water and making the soap more "foamy" or allowing it to rinse cleaner, especially since the rinse water is hard water by itself. (DAHHHH, Captain Obvious!)
Any thoughts or opinions or experiences by fellow Autopians??

FYI, to understand what the difference is between distilled water and de-ionized water is, here is what I posted in a thread on Zero Water filter systems from February, 2017:
Some people are confusing distilled water with de-ionized water.
Distilled water is water that is turned into steam (or vapor) and then condensed back into liquid form, but without most of (but not all) of the minerals, chemicals, and contaminants that may have been found in the original water source. Multiple distillations will produce an almost pure, mineral-free water.
Deionized water is deeply demineralized, ultrapure water used in microelectronics, printed circuit boards, instrument manufacture, pharmacy, washing liquids, etc. In order to obtain the high quality, pure de-ionized water a multi-stage water purification process can be used. After pre-cleaning, the water is supplied to the reverse osmosis membrane, and then the water is filtered through a special deionization medium, which removes the rest of the ions in the water. The purity of deionized water can exceed the purity of distilled water. I think that`s the type of water a CR-Spotless water filter system produces, although not to clean-room or laboratory specifications, but mineral-free enough for car washing, so that when used a rinsing solution, it will not leave mineral-spots if left to dry (evaporate) on its own without the aid or use of some type of drying medium (air blow-off or chamois or microfiber waffle-weave drying towel). Those of you who have to use hard water know the pain this can cause when washing a car with the traditional 2-bucket method. It`s also the reason so many of you have changed over to rinse-less washes like Optimum Polymer Technologies No-Rinse (or ONR, as it`s know here) and use distilled or deionized water for this expressed reason.

I would think that the water filtration system to produce Zero Water is similar to a Brita filter to produce clean, healthy tap drinking water. One other thing that a Brita filter does is to filter out cryptosporidium (amoeba) that can cause serious health issues. This is especially true in areas that have ground water contamination from farm-waste (manure) run-off. (like the Dairy State of Wisconsin, with its fractured karst limestone bedrock). I have no idea how much heavy metals (lead, mercury, arsenic, radium) are eliminated because they do not use a reverse-osmosis process or distillation process, but it must be enough to meet current EPA drinking water guidelines and standards.
 
If you`re using a rinseless wash, isn`t having a product that that can encapsulate the dirt and drop it to the bottom what you want? Just because another rinseless wash feels slicker or leavings nothing behind isn`t necessarily what makes a good rinseless wash. Why not use a quick detailer then?
 
CleanIt said:
If you`re using a rinseless wash, isn`t having a product that that can encapsulate the dirt and drop it to the bottom what you want? Just because another rinseless wash feels slicker or leavings nothing behind isn`t necessarily what makes a good rinseless wash. Why not use a quick detailer then?
Click to expand...

I guess the answer to that depends on how you`re using a rinseless wash, if you are using it in a bucket, then having suspended solids settle out is very important. If you`re using the "multiple media method" where you aren`t returning the dirty media to the wash or rinse bucket, it would seem a less important characteristic. The other discussion we could have is what is the particle size of those suspended solids that are clouding the water--your tap water can also have solids in it. I have a whole-house filter, and although it doesn`t get as dirty as I thought it would, it definitely gets rust and grit in it. So the clean tap water people may be using likely has some particles in it also--are they large enough to cause a problem?
 
Oneheadlite & SETEC- Heh heh, I *JUST* logged on there after having finished ONRing the upstairs, including the floors :D Nice to see that I`m not the only Autopian using ONR in the house.
 
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