NXT vinyl protection vs 303

[Mike_Phillips]

Guys,



Don't forget that NXT protectant is SOLVENT based, not WATER based like 303, #40, Vinylex, most of our faves.



As long as you are aware of the ramifications of solvent based protectants, feel free to use it.

Correction, NXT Tech Protectant is Oil-based, not solvent based, their is a difference, I don't know what exactly, but I was told this yesterday in a NXT meeting.



Just out of curiosity Bret, where did you get the information that NXT Tech Wax was SOLVENT based?



Also, solvents, or better yet, petroleum distillates, are a huge category of products.



I know I've posted this before, but just because a product contains a solvent doesn't automatically make it harmful. Remember, plastics, paint, vinyl etc, come from things like Liquid Petroleum Gas, and Petroleum Crude Oil, as well as other raw materials.



So to say,



�I don't want to use a petroleum distillates on my paint�, (a petroleum distillate)



Can be kind of silly depending on the petroleum distillate of course



Chap Stick is 44% Petrolatum’s, (Excuse me while I put some solvent on my chapped lips)



There I'm back, mmmmh.... my chapped lips feel better now.



And of course solvents can include water, as in I'm going to dissolve the dirt on my car when I wash it with some solvent out of the garden hose.







Mike

 

[imported_memnuts]

Solvent: Mineral oil

AKA petroleum distillate

AKA Baby oil (refined and fragranced):shocked:



MSDS: Mineral Oil is listed as carcinogen



MSDS could be intrepreted incorrectly if understood to be absolute in all concentrations and usages.





MBZ500,

that tire like great. Is that just NXT protectant alone, the tire was completely clean prior to application?

I might have to give that stuff a shot. :bow



Also could not help but notice the polished disc. Stock? Excellent wheel , hub and tire detailing. :bow

 

[Mike_Phillips]

MSDS could be interpreted incorrectly if understood to be absolute in all concentrations and usages.

Exactamundo.



MSD sheets are for transportation, storage and safety purposes.



They don't tell you exact ingredients, purities, (or lack of), mixing order, temperatures, time periods, or anything that would really tell you what a product is.



After reading all of the MSD sheets you can, it will still come down you, your preferences, and how a product performs in your two eyes.



Meguiar’s takes great pride in making there MSD sheets available to the public to insure anyone transporting, storing, or handling our products has the information they need. Hopefully setting a trend for all wax companies in the future.







Mike

 

[imported_memnuts]

In our medical lab we use the MSDS exactly for the reasons you listed Mike.

Safety - personnel exposure warnings.

Storage - different chemicals required by law to be stored in specific environments ( i.e flammables in steel cabinets).

 

[MBZ 500E]

MBZ500,

that tire like great. Is that just NXT protectant alone, the tire was completely clean prior to application?

I might have to give that stuff a shot. :bow



Also could not help but notice the polish disc. Stock? Excellent detailing. :bow [/B]

Thanks! The rear tire previously had Meguiars Vinyl Rubber (consumer version) and had been driven 200 miles so it was dirty before I applied Nxt. I applied Nxt Vinyl to a foam applicator and wiped the tire. It cleaned the tire and left what you saw in the picture. Oh and that picture was taken after I had driven the car 20 miles and I haven't cleaned or touched it. Results speak for themselves I guess.



Nice eye, the rotors are OE but I had them Nickel Plated so they don't rust. Cool thing is that they looked the exact same out of the box so when I go to concours shows I won't get points deducted for false appearance. I posted a few more pics in the Concours Forum. You can also get a better idea of what my tires looked like before applying Nxt protectant on the first pics I posted. Here's the link: http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29839&pagenumber=2

 

[imported_BretFraz]

Lemme ask this:



What are the chances of Meguiar's telling me EXACTLY what the ingredients are in NXT Protectant so I, as a consumer, can make an educated choice?



Since Autopia exists to assist people make educated and informed choices about products, procedures, tools, and techniques, how EXACLTY can Meguiar's help in this regard besides telling us that they'd never use harmful ingredients?



I understand why MSDS's exist and their intended purposes. I understand that an MSDS is not a complete ingredients list. But the ingredients listed on any given MSDS tells me something about the product and some information is better than none.



I know that mfr's don't like it when their customers reach incorrect conclusions about their products but they're partially to blame because they refuse to provide complete information. It's not my fault that the MSDS is inaccurate - don't blame us for interpreting them the way we do.



I appreciate the fact that Meguiar's is providing MSDS's to the public and I hope other mfr's will follow their lead.



Back to the subject at hand - -



Isoparrafinic Hydrocarbons are petroleum distillates aka solvents.

Polysiloxane is an oil. Both are ingredients in NXT Tech Protectant.



Tire mfr's like Michelin and Dunlop have stated that if a warranty claim is filed and it is found by these mfrs that a solvent based protectant was used on the tires, they will deny the claim.



Silicone oils have a well earned reputation of staining trim and paint when slung. This type of damage can be permanent.



I'm not worried about what a product looks like. Lots of products look nice. I'd like to think I'm sophisticated and discerning enough to not be easily impressed with a nice shine. Shiny stuff doesn't do it for me. A high quality, safe, and effective product is what I'm interested in. Based on what concerns I've posted here, is NXT Tech Protectant safe for rubber, plastic, and paint?

 

[imported_Intermezzo]

Isoparrafinic Hydrocarbons are petroleum distillates aka solvents.

Polysiloxane is an oil. Both are ingredients in NXT Tech Protectant.

Hey Phillips, can you try this stuff on your chapped lips too? I'm sure it's just as safe as that Petroleum Jelly you just applied!



BTW, great post bretfraz! :bow



Quite honestly, it's pretty sad to see that Autopians are starting to adopt the 'hey, it's Company X! I'm sure they'd never use anything bad for our cars!' attitude and tossing aside the very discriminating, scrutinizing evaluations of products as done in the past.

 

[Mike_Phillips]

Lemme ask this:



What are the chances of Meguiar's telling me EXACTLY what the ingredients are in NXT Protectant so I, as a consumer, can make an educated choice?

You know what, I love to ask the chemists these same questions and they not only won't tell me, but they don't like it when I ask. It puts them in the position of having to say "I can't tell you".



Sorry. As much as everyone would like all companies to just spill their guts on the ingredients in the formula's. It's never going to happen. On a related matter, I do know that more stringent regulations that govern V.O.C.’s that take effect in 2005 is something Meguiar's is preparing for. I have to wonder if other companies involved in the general category of "Car Care Appearance Products" are also updating all of their formula's to comply?

Since Autopia exists to assist people make educated and informed choices about products, procedures, tools, and techniques, how EXACLTY can Meguiar's help in this regard besides telling us that they'd never use harmful ingredients?

I don't know... maybe there just come a point where you have to place your trust in a company, whether that company is Company A, or Company B. Certainly a long history of manufacturing premium products for both the OEM and the Refinishing industry, as well as the Mold Release industry, Marine industry, and plastics, and Furniture industries must at least show that Meguiar's has proven itself to at least some degree that it in this for the long run?

I understand why MSDS's exist and their intended purposes. I understand that an MSDS is not a complete ingredients list. But the ingredients listed on any given MSDS tells me something about the product and some information is better than none.



I know that mfr's don't like it when their customers reach incorrect conclusions about their products but they're partially to blame because they refuse to provide complete information. It's not my fault that the MSDS is inaccurate - don't blame us for interpreting them the way we do.

I'm never going to win this one. I'm not one to give up easily, but there is only so much I can do/type. I guess to me, I'd rather buff out a car than try to satisfy everyone to the 9th degree. Sorry Bret, I'm going to have to accept the blame and fault for this one. In my defense, I don't write the MSD sheets, (I don't even like reading them, they're kind of boring. It's much more fun to as Nike say's it, "Just Do It".



That said, I'm planning on hosting a training class here at Meguiar's and invite some people from the forums. Would you like to attend? We'll put you up and feed you, drive you around and do our best to answer your questions *live*. I'm even going to try to have a chemist sit in on one of the classes to take questions. By attending, you could ask the above question yourself.

I appreciate the fact that Meguiar's is providing MSDS's to the public and I hope other mfr's will follow their lead.



Back to the subject at hand - -



Isoparrafinic Hydrocarbons are petroleum distillates aka solvents.

Polysiloxane is an oil. Both are ingredients in NXT Tech Protectant.



Tire mfr's like Michelin and Dunlop have stated that if a warranty claim is filed and it is found by these mfrs that a solvent based protectant was used on the tires, they will deny the claim.



Silicone oils have a well earned reputation of staining trim and paint when slung. This type of damage can be permanent.

Here's what I know. Our chemists are top notch. If a product contains a certain ingredient, then I trust them, that it serves a purpose that benefits the surface to which it is to be applied, and/or the user.

I'm not worried about what a product looks like. Lots of products look nice. I'd like to think I'm sophisticated and discerning enough to not be easily impressed with a nice shine. Shiny stuff doesn't do it for me. A high quality, safe, and effective product is what I'm interested in. Based on what concerns I've posted here, is NXT Tech Protectant safe for rubber, plastic, and paint?

I can't imagine our chemists making a product that's harmful to the surfaces you list above... but, next week I have a meeting with them and I'll do my best to remember to ask.



(Wife says I have a memory problem?)



Now what was I saying.....



Oh well...



Mike

 

[Mike_Phillips]

Hey Phillips, can you try this stuff on your chapped lips too? I'm sure it's just as safe as that Petroleum Jelly you just applied!

Great post Intermezzo, :bow :bow



Let me help you out here. I would hate to see you hurt yourself.



Meguiar's NXT Tech Protectant should NOT be used on any part of your body. This product is intended for use on Vinyl, Rubber, and Plastic components found on and in automobiles.



Now, Chap Stick on the other hand is intended for use on your lips.



If you need any more help distinguishing between products intended for use on cars and products intended for use on your body, just ask. Either I, or someone else here on Autopia would be happy to help you out.



Kind regards,



Mike Phillips

 

[acohen100]

Ooh ME, ME...pick ME!



BTW, for everyone's general knowledge, water is a solvent. Actually, H2O is the universal solvent. So theoretically all these products are solvent-based. AAAGH! I just drank solvent! And it's coming out my pores! (Amongst other places...)



Oh, another BTW, my tires look at least as good as that pick and they were quite old and cruddy. I sprayed it on and wiped it in with a foam tire applicator. I'm shocked at how good they came out. That is definitely a niche for this product. All my other tire shiners are going to the shelf.

 

[Steve @ Guru]

I was going to stay out of this, but I couldn't help myself.



While preparing for the Wheel & Tire Care Guide, I had the incredible opportunity to speak with dozens of reps from tire companies, chemical companies, "job shops," and even US DOT reps.



When I posed the question to them about dressings and tire life, ALL of them said, "We do not endorse the use of any dressing that contains a petroleum based solvent."



Michelin, Dunlop and a few others went even farther, saying that they would not honor any warranty if it was determined the tire had been treated with a dressing that contained solvent. Their concern was that the solvent promotes the excretion of important stabilizers that compose the tire's sidewall compound. They even suggested that certain petroleum solvents (heavier solvents) could cause accelerated harm to the structural integrity.



Imagine my shock when I spoke to several chemical companies that manufacture dressings for some household name detailing product companies and they said, "We make what we're contracted to make, even if it contains a product that's known to be potentially harmful to a tire."



NXT may not be "solvent-based," but that's sorta focusing on a term that might be a little general. I'd say it "contains solvents," which would raise my eyebrows a little, especially after hearing what I heard from nearly a dozen different sources - all of whom are deeply entrenched in the tire engineering trade.



...Just my $0.02... I'll head back to the sidelines now.

 

[Mike_Phillips]

...Just my $0.02... I'll head back to the sidelines now.

Well because of the interest, I will be brave, and I will ask the chemists about this. In fact, I print this thread out and highlight the relevent portions and show it to them and then see what they say.



(I'm sure at least one comment will get a laugh)



Meeting is for next Wednesday.



But for those that want a strictly water-based dressing, check this out,



W-Dressing

Mike

 

[imported_Intermezzo]

If you need any more help distinguishing between products intended for use on cars and products intended for use on your body, just ask. Either I, or someone else here on Autopia would be happy to help you out.

Thanks for helping me out Phillips! It is truly appreciated. I was just confused at first....seeing as to how you applied petroleum jelly on your lips to prove your point that not all petroleum used in auto products are dangerous. I guess my first impression of your analogy was correct after all! :up

 

[Mike_Phillips]

Thanks for helping me out Phillips! It is truly appreciated. I was just confused at first....seeing as to how you applied petroleum jelly on your lips to prove your point that not all petroleum used in auto products are dangerous. I guess my first impression of your analogy was correct after all! :up

Must I?





My point was that not all petroleum distillates are dangerous.



Is it me that you dislike? Or Meguiar's?



What can I do to become your friend?



Mike

 

[imported_Intermezzo]

Must I?

My point was that not all petroleum distillates are dangerous.

Yup, and you proved it...seeing as to how your lips are no longer chapped.

Is it me that you dislike? Or Meguiar's?

I don't dislike you or Meguiar's. In fact, if you do a simple search of the archives, you'll find that I think Meguiar's makes excellent products! :up I'm not sure where this is coming from? :nixweiss

What can I do to become your friend?

Oh, come on now Mike. I just responded to your facetiousness in kind. No need to take things personal. Quite frankly, I'm a bit surprised at your facetiousness because as a professional in this industry, your reputation is at stake. I, on the other hand, can do a complete nut-act, get flamed for doing so, and it wouldn't make a difference at all to me! LOL Anyway, enough of this back-and-forth. I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself.

 

[imported_BretFraz]

I don't dislike you or Meguiar's. In fact, if you do a simple search of the archives, you'll find that I think Meguiar's makes excellent products!

Just wanted to say, "my sentiments exactly". :up





- - Bret - -

 

[jchetty]

i have yet to to try the nxt line. i am constantly impressed with megiuars products. However, after using 303 since getting my car brand new for all seals/motor/interior, i doubt nxt will be better. Probaly more bang-for-the-buck, but 303 is simply amazing. 303 is a stand out products like q-e-w, final inspection, s100/p21s and others. 303 has its flaws, but for what i use it for(preserving rubber parts), i think it has no match. btw, soon i plan to get #7,#20,#26,#82...

 

[JS]

Bretfraz wrote

Isoparrafinic Hydrocarbons are petroleum distillates aka solvents.

Polysiloxane is an oil. Both are ingredients in NXT Tech Protectant





I could be wrong, but I believe the "polysiloxane" Bretfraz referred to in his post is Polydimethylsiloxane aka PDMS. PDMS is a water-soluble protectant.



As such I'm pretty sure that Meguiars NXT Vinyl Protectant is a Water based product not solvent-based or oil-based.



As far as "Isoparrafinic Hydrocarbons", I believe these are just some type of carrying agent (a parrafin) that "flashes off" (evaporates), after the protectant is applied.



I am positive that the mere presence of "petroleum distillates" in a protectant does not necessarily mean that the product is "solvent-based"--as others have said. Petroleum distillates is a somewhat vague term that encompasses all types of substances.



As an example--the old "Black Again" product was well known as a water-based protectant. Yet it contained petroleum distillates.



I'll be interested in hearing Mike Phillips report back as to what the Meguiars chemists say.

 

[acohen100]

Parrafin is wax, isn't it?

 

[imported_Aurora40]

I understand why MSDS's exist and their intended purposes. I understand that an MSDS is not a complete ingredients list. But the ingredients listed on any given MSDS tells me something about the product and some information is better than none.

I think I have to agree here with Bret. While I don't think that taking an MSDS and picking at every possible ingredient is necessarily worthwhile, I think that you do get some general information from an MSDS. pH is one that's interesting to know. It may not mean that a product with a pH of 5 is less corrosive than a product with a pH of 4.5, but you can make some general observations from one. If a product has a pH of 7, or of >8 or of <6 then you can get some idea about whether it's neutral or whether it's acidic or basic.



By the same token, when a product like #40 lists that it is like 80% water, and NXT Tech Protectant lists it is like 80% polysiloxane or whatever (the MSDS page on meguiars.com isn't launching the dang pdf's so I can't view them now, so I'm going from memory), I think you can make some general statements about that. I won't go so far as to say that it means NXT Tech Protectant will hurt anything, but I think it is reasonable to say it isn't water-based. I don't think I'd make generalizations about some of the ingredients that are there in <5% quantities, but in this case we're talking about something that is the main ingredient.



Given how much I like #40, that's enough reason for me to not bother with NXT Tech Protectant. That doesn't mean it's a bad product, but it means it crosses a certain threshold I've set for products I use on my interiors and trim... I still plan on using #38 on all my weatherstripping and exterior plastics since it seems very durable and has antiozonants and such. It isn't water based, but then it's a gel so I really wouldn't expect it to be.



As far as the tire makers making blanket statements about anything with solvents, keep in mind it is in their best interest to do so. It isn't like they will lose tire sales because of a few small lines of print in their warranty statement, but they will reduce their warranty costs. It reminds me a bit of most automakers suggestions to not use anything on clearcoat paint but just to wash it, and to clean interiors with just water. They don't say it because it is what's best for the car, but rather because they have to keep in mind the lowest-common-denominator. But I'm not an idiot, so I feel pretty comfortable not heeding their recommendations.