New to Autopia!

I

imported_Sarge1

New member
Hello to all! I ran across this site about 2 weeks ago and really enjoyed what I was reading. Forum members here are very patient with the noobs and that's a good thing. We all start somewhere. I also noted that the crew here seems to be a little less rowdy and more professional from the other forums I have visited. :xyxthumbs



If I may, I'd like to address a problem that I think I have under control but will surely solicit your advice. I have a Black 2001 Z Corvette that I really started to get into the detailing bug about recently and it seems that I will keep the fever as I now enjoy detailing my car much more so than before, simply because I the advice I've gleened over the past two weeks. Much easier sequence of events you all use to do things.



I have the swirl/scratch issue that so many have and have taken the appropriate (at least I think so) steps to get things straightened out.

I recently purchased a PC 7424 and separately purchased the flexible 5" backing plate. I found the 5" plate keeps a safe distance from the edges of the LC pads that I've been using with the Menzerna twins.



The car was throughly washed with a degreaser to remove all remaining wax residue. Car was clayed then washed again, dried with MF towel. I started out the project on the rear lower l/s bumper of the car. Nice and inconspicous! I mounted the white LC pad and applied a liberal amount of IP and began to work it in ensuring to properly breakdown the polish (time/speed). Initial results yielded very minor scratches removed yet many remained. I reapplied IP several more times (little more pressure on PC) with approx the same results.



I did not use the FP as the scratches are still there. All of which are far from being noted with the fingernail test. I have a small halogen light that I use to check progress.



I've read that going more abrasive should be done in two different steps. First try a more abrasive pad (yellow:nixweiss)

before trying a more abrasive product. Should I go yellow pad with the IP again or try a more abrasive product with current white pad.



Your input is appreciated!
 
Welcome to the club :)



It would be great to get some before and after pics !



Us here are suckers for shiney objects lol.



Anyways, as a side note, i am cautious on plastic bumpers, as they heat up alot quicker and easily.



If it were me i would do the trunk frist. Easily worked on, easily painted....lol, J/K :)



I have never used a yellow LC pad, never needed to. I have been successful removing 95% of defects with the orange pad.



Black is going to be a tough color, but i am sure you can get it there if you are patient.



Mike from Megs online, who is one of my detailing heros lol, has a very precise way to figure out how aggressive will be needed to remove defects.



I believe that corvettes have hard paint, but someone else can chime in on that.



What is a good strategy is to section off a 2x2 area. Some people mask it off to have a sharp comparison. Then, work from the least aggressive approach up to a more aggressive one.



Assuming you worked the IP correctly, on the correct speed, and worked it long enough, on a 2x2-ish area, then you need to step up alittle at a time.



I would go with an orange pad, and personally i dont go over that. I have done areas 3 times, and it usually takes me an hour just to do a bad fender.



If you cannot get the paint to a satifactory level, post again with some pics.
 
JBM, I actually took some pics but they didn't show well. Funny you mention the trunk. I can feel the trunk staring at me as if to say "try me, try me". I probably will following the Heat/Nets game.



So you're recommending an orange pad with IP? What would be the next step up in regards to an abrasive product? Would the SSR line up be a possibility?



Thanks for your advice JBM
 
I have never used IP, dont really know how aggressive it is, but from the stuff i have done, 2.5 or DACP with an orange pad handles the type of paint i have come across as well as the defects.



I believe that IP is close to those two, and you should be able to see some real results with the orange pad, even if you have to do the section 2 times.
 
I found the abrasive list which numbers 1-10:



6 (Any higher, and you should probably bust out the rotary or sandpaper)

3M PERFECT-IT II RUBBING COMPOUND FINE CUT 39002

MEGUIAR?S BODY SHOP PROFESSIONAL DUAL ACTION CLEANER POLISH MEDIUM CUT #83

MEGUIAR?S MIRROR GLAZE FINE-CUT CLEANER #2 (rotary only)

3M PERFECT-IT III RUBBING COMPOUND 05933

POORBOY'S SSR 2.5



5 (Removes scratches you can't quite feel)

3M FINESSE-IT II MACHINE POLISH 39003

3M FINESSE-IT II FINISHING MATERIAL 05928 (same as above)

3M ONE STEP CLEANER WAX, MEDIUM OXIDATION REMOVER 39066

1Z PP

MENZERNA INTENSIVE POLISH

POORBOY'S SSR2



I understand the above list is basically used a a rule of thumb and is not necessarily gospel.



I have a good idea on the product IF the orange pad you suggest does not work with the IP. In the meantime, I will use the IP on areas other than the bumper to check it's effectiveness.



When you mention Mike you are referring to Mike Einzett or Mike from Meguires?
 
:welcome to Autopia Sarge



Machine Polish / Foam Pad Combinations:

Always start with the least abrasive combination, i.e. a machine polish comparative abrasion scale CAS =3/10 and the least aggressive (polishing) foam pad. If that combination doesn't remove the imperfections, using the same machine polish CAS = 3/10 and change to a more aggressive (cutting) foam pad. If the surface imperfections remain, then step-up the abrasive to a polish CAS = 4/10 and use the least aggressive (polishing) pad.



The speed at which the foam pad travels across a paint surface is also important, too fast or slow wonâ€â„¢t allow the micro-abrasive to â€Ëœbeak downâ€â„¢, Machine linier speed (MLS) buffer or rotary machine movement shown as inches per second



It is preferable to polish 2-3 times to restore the paint film surface than to use an unnecessarily abrasive machine polish / foam pad combination.



The abrading ability of any polish can be changed by their application method (i.e. machine or hand application, speed and / or pressure used, using it wet or dry and / or type of foam composition (different foam compositions and / or densities have a differing abrading ability)

JonM
 
Sarge- Welcome to Autopia! Yeah, the paint on C5s is sorta hard. I haven't used IP but I'm not surprised you need something stronger.



Some thoughts- I really like 3M PI-III RC (05933). It was recently discontinued but is still commonly available. The replacement product (PI-3000 RC) should be good too. When using this sort of product by PC, I use a 4" pad, it allows the PC to behave more aggressively (but still safe for your paint). A product like that might be just what you need, before the IP, to get the marring down to something manageable.



I'd probably go with 05933/orange 4", IP/polishing pad, maybe also 4", then FP/polishing pad, 6-6.5".



You're right, no sense going to the FP until you've removed the marring using more aggressive products.



And I'd probably be doing the initial work on something besides the plastic bumper cover. The fiberglass parts of the car will be a little more forgiving.



As JBM said, it can take a long time to correct hard paint by PC.



There are other approaches you might want to look into, so let us know how things progress.
 
Accumulator, thanks for the welcome and the advice!



The good news is that I went and IP'ed half of the trunk and all swirls are gone. :D

Bad news is even after 3 rounds of the IP, very light surface scratches still exist but are not as bad as the untouched half of the trunk.



Would 3M PI II RC (05973) work in place of either the 3M PI-III RC (05933) or (PI-3000 RC) that you recommended as I happen to have some on hand?



I have tried both Megs Scratch X and Kit Scratch out. They both remove haze but that's about all.



Before I bought the Menzerna, I tried 3M PI III MG (05937) yet that product did not get to the root of things. I believe it's too mild of an abrasive. Your opinion......



I also purchased 3M PI 3000 Final Glaze to follow up after the MG. Can I still use this product? Should I use this after the FPII or before or just not at all?



I found the exact items you spoke of and will be looking to pick them up in the coming days. I will post the results.
 
Dont use the PI 2. I have some, it dusts real bad, and is cancerous.



Are the very light surface scratches marring left from the pad/polishing, or are they just deeper parts of the swirls?



try to catch your fingernail in them, if it catches, i would give up on them.



If memory serves me correctly the 3000 Fianal Glaze is just that, a glaze, similar to Megs #7.



I wouldnt use a glaze under a sealant, if thats what you are topping it with when done.
 
"Are the very light surface scratches marring left from the pad/polishing, or are they just deeper parts of the swirls?"



The scratches are not from polishing. They are just a little deeper in the clear. I've read further about other forum members using the 4" orange LC pads with either the IP or the 3M RC. I cannot catch my fingernail in the scratches so I'm pretty comfortable going with the above plan. Man, I'm glad I found this site!!!



I will post the results shortly after receiving the products. Thanks for your advice.

:xyxthumbs
 
Sarge- It sounds like you're making good progress. Sometimes it doesn't pay to remove *all* the marring; stuff like the scratches might be best left alone lest you thin the clear too much. I try to exercise restraint when it's something like that which will only bother *me* rather than truly detract from the appearance of the car. Just a little food for thought. And note that will every subsequent polishing, they will get a little less noticeable anyhow.



But three passes with IP isn't all *that* aggressive an approach so IMO you haven't taken off much clear at this point.



I think JBM answered many of your Qs, I'll try to fill in the rest.



With the Menzerna IP and FPII I dunno if you'll have much use for the PI-III MG (05937). I just happen to use 3M stuff instead of Menzerna so the 05937 is what I use as a follow up to more aggressive products.



I too prefer the PI-III RC, but the PI-II isn't bad. You oughta wear a mask when you use it (silica dust), but I dunno how dangerous it really is for infrequent use.



The use of the Finishing Glaze would, for me, depend on the choice of LSP. If you're gonna use a wax (or something else that isn't picky about what it's applied over) then I'd try it after the FPII and see how you like it. If you're using a sealant, I'd probably just use the FPII and then do the LSP. Some people *always* use the FPII as their penultimate step; they like the way it leaves a "bare" surface for their LSP to adhere to.



Just FWIW, on black I kinda prefer the glaze/wax look. It usually strikes me as deeper and richer than the look from sealants. Not the most durable approach though. If you want to go the glaze/wax route, consider Pinnacle Souveran, IMO it's the best wax for use on black (actually, I'd say it's the best on *any* color ;) ).
 
"I try to exercise restraint when it's something like that which will only bother *me* rather than truly detract from the appearance of the car."



I've adopted this approach as my Z is a semi daily driver. Had my ride been designated as show, I would be much more discriminitive in regards to it's overall condition. I will settle for a certain level of tolerance. It makes this whole thing much more pleasant. :)



"I dunno if you'll have much use for the PI-III MG (05937)"

Yea, you're probably right. I suppose I will now have some on hand. I'll most likely use it for comparisions in the future. For now I will go with the FPII with the Pinnacle Souveran. I've read in many posts that the PS is a good bet with black.



Thanks for your input and I'll post the results. :xyxthumbs
 
So far, so good. :xyxthumbs



I just finished using the 4" LC orange pad with the PI III RC and things turned out very well. A quick spray of water on the pad and I was ready to go. I applied a liberal amount of the RC and did the rear deck lid. After RCing, I found that removing the residual RC proves to be difficult so I removed it with a damp MF cloth. Came right off and I was left with that familar haze so many on the forum have spoke of.



Of all the 1000's of tiny scratches that were there when I started, only about 5 remained! I applied a few more applications of the RC to some problem areas and the extra attention paid off nicely.



I switched from the orange pad to the white pad and put a light coat of RC on the deck and the haze factor has been cut in half.



I anticipate not having much haze, if any, when I go with the white pad, use the Menzerna IP then the FP II. I also picked up Pinnacle Souveran for the final.



Great people, great advice!!!



Your thoughts......
 
Sarge- Glad (but not too surprised ;) ) to hear how it's going so far. I expect the Menzerna IP will take care of the hazing, but if you want you could try the PI-III MG (05937), which is what I use after the RC. Either/or, you should be fine.



Of course the *real* trick is to keep from inducing *new* marring once you get it all polished up ;) You might wanna do a search on "foamgun" to see how some of us use one to help prevent wash-induced marring.
 
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