P1et said:
So what is everyone's ultimate goal here? Trying to have Menzerna admit that some of their products fill? Because it looks like everyone still loves the Menzerna products and will keep using them, whether they fill or do not fill.
My ultimate goal is slightly selfish. I (as a customer of Menzerna) have been treated so poorly by MenzernaUSA that I admit it feels nice to vent. Also, I am personally glad that many people can see so clearly through Jeff Silver, because he has publically insulted me on a forum.
Another detailer (forummember Moe) who is a sponsor on 6speedonline thought he would invite Jeff Silver onto a thread where we where discussing problems with Menzerna. Jeff called me a liar. In the short end it made me look bad on the forum(a part that I played a role in as well with less then a professional attitude). Of course in the long run everything I said was borne true. Then on autogeek another discussion had broken out about the filling of Menzerna.
Jeff Silver showed up and basically said the problem doesn't exist so we (the thread) was entirely wrong. Brian (VA) called him and I was next to him and Jeff told Brian things that I heard. The two faced responses I heard (basically two sides of the story, both from Jeff) where contradictory. When I questioned Jeff about this (trying to find which side was true) he told me I invented the conversation.
Also I am stung because I was the first person to post that Menzerna fills and I was absolutely attacked for it.At the timeI was trying to do was help the pro's and enthusists fix a problem that very few people seemed to have. It was never about bashing a product that I continue to use (that would not make sense). As time as played on though, most high end detailers have seen some filling with the products (to which point I am floored that Jeff still denies it exists). Though it angered me that people didn't listen, I could see Jeff's response as only a few people had experience with the product.
As the experience with these products increased with the general (at the time I was using Menzerna on 7-8 cars per week)enthusiast more and more people experienced these problems and now it is common place (Jeff still denies it). I guess it is nice to not feel like I was the odd man out.
One of the by-products off my initial post about Menzerna filling is that a lot of people PM'd me about the issue privately and asking for a solution to the problem. As much as I don't like Jeff I will admit that Menzerna has the ability to product some jaw dropping results. Now the quesiton became, how can we product these results on a regular basis with out the fear of defect return (several months down the road).
I called pad manufacturers, product develpers, etc... I formed a lot of valuable relationships in this time and learned so much more about detailing then I thought possible. With the help of Brian (VASuperShine) we tracked every car we had done with 106ff (the popular finishing polish) and all the variables and a couple "red alerts" came up.
One was that that the chance of defect return was was significantly higher when 106ff was used with a polishing pad as a last step vs. a finishing pad. As Jeff stilled denied the problem I did a little more research with pad manfacturers and learned about pad abrasion and the way certain lubricants in polishing can anchor into the amazingly small defects created by the pads. Certain waxes and oils can become very well "anchored" and very difficult to remove (even when using solvents ).
This led me to begin finishing every car with a finishing pad worked at a steady rate, regardless of how well the paint looked on the surface. One of my clients told me it was like I was "jeweling" the paint, so I just started using the term for the final step. At this point (if you search click and brag's from a year ago) the most common finishing pad used with 106ff was a white pad. I still believe that anybody finishing with a polishing pad and Menzerna (on a rotary) is running a high risk of product return.
It was also at that time that 3M began recommending using UltraFina on a non-mechanical pad, which made sence to me. At that point, blue LC pads where generally used for glazes and wax applicaton. Using a non mechanical pad greatly increases the time it takes to break down the polish, but with a little pressure (as recommended by
3M) it can be done and the polish can be fractured to a very fine cut with out the use of mechanics from the pad. These reduces (or seems to eliminate) the pad abrasion that can capture the agents that may mask defects.
I understand I didn't make any break throughs and I didn't discover anything that many people probably already knew, so I definetely didn't invent anything or make any break throughs, but I did discover a technique (that many people used well before me) that helped solve a problem Menzerna USA publically denied existed. Ryan Blanchette (rydawg) and I did a ton of research and experiments (which benefited us by allowing us to take our polishing to a higher level) with the sole goal of helping people out.
The flip side is that it should have been Jeff taking the lead and doing the research to help people out. I suppose it is easier to insult those people instead?
)
I've been married for almost 13 years. I say OJ did it and my wife says he didn't. We have two kids and couldn't be happier.
