Need to ease customer's fear

Intel486 said:
There have been people I've wanted to tell that before but haven't gotten the nerve to try. I'm always worried they will refuse to pay and say they expected it to be better or something just to not have to pay...



Think anyone would actually do that? People do some stuipd (and mean) things to get free stuff.
I fear the very same thing. Reason being is I have one brother who never seems to miss an oportunity to screw somebody with a policy like that. He is always buying tools and getting a refund after fixing stuff. They say what goes around comes around but what if I get hit by some "stray" karma meant for him?



Intel, I really like your idea of offering to pay to have the work done by a detailer of their choosing. Even my brother couldn't get around this. But on the other hand, I figure most people who are interested in having their vehicle detailed will pay for good work.



I have a friend who owns a barber shop. He has the same policy if you don't like the hair cut, you don't pay. He has only had a few people not pay for their haircut in the 8 years he has been open, and eventually they all came back and he refused to do them. If the first question the person asks is if you have a money back guarantee, chances are..........
 
as a possible customer. If I took my car in to have it detailed, and asked that it only be done by hand, I would be livid if I found out a machine was used on it. It doesn't matter if the result is good. It's my car and I'm paying for the service. I have every right to say what gets done to it, even if I know nothing about it. I think the idea to win him over to it (best idea), or to charge for the time it takes to do by hand, or to just send him on his way are the best ones.



I also found the comment about going to the doctor interesting. I may not have an MD, but I sure as hell know something about my body. I don't implicitly trust every doctor I go to to do whatever they feel is necessary without any input from me. And I think you all can agree that you wouldn't just trust any detailer because they said they were a professional. I'm sure DetailBarn does an awesome job, but this guy won't know that until he sees it. You do need to prove to people that you can do a job, and not just say "hey, this is what I do" and expect them to automatically defer to your expertise.



At the worst, maybe you do it by hand the first time. Get the car looking better (and charge more if it takes longer). Explain that it will be hard to get it better than that by hand, but that a PC could get it like new. Perhaps through seeing your quality of work, he will be more comfortable with you using a machine on his car the next time. To me, the worst thing a person can do to sell me on something is to take a tone like they know more than me or something is beyond me. I'm a pretty smart guy, and I can understand most things. If someone can't be bothered to explain it, or to modify the service they provide so that it is a service I want, then I can't be bothered to deal with them. But maybe I'm not the normal consumer.



Just my two cents... :)
 
as a possible customer. If I took my car in to have it detailed, and asked that it only be done by hand, I would be livid if I found out a machine was used on it. It doesn't matter if the result is good. It's my car and I'm paying for the service. I have every right to say what gets done to it,



Gotta agree with this one. The guy probably is afraid of buffers

because he knows of same case where a rotary was used with

rubbing compound or something and swirled like crazy.



The customer wants the car polished by hand, then you do it

by hand or politely refer him elsewhere. Maybe after a few

times "his way" you can show him the PC benefits.



Jon, former "no buffers near my cars zealot", now a PC owner
 
Here's another thought: would YOU take your Porsche to

a guy who said he was gonna use a buffer on it?
 
tetz said:
Here's another thought: would YOU take your Porsche to

a guy who said he was gonna use a buffer on it?



I am sick and tired of people in here going on about rotary buffers and how you shouldn't use them etc... The problem is not the rotary polisher - the problem is the person using it! A porter cable will NEVER acheive the results that a rotary polisher can achieve. It's a fact.

The problem is there are far too many uneducated morons out there that for some reason feel that "detailing" should be the profession of choice for anyone and everyone which has led to a general bad reputation for the profession.

More customers SHOULD be so picky as this guy with the porsche and not let just anybody work on their car.

What is needed is to prove to this guy that you can diagnose and then correct the problems with his vehicle and he will be your customer forever.
 
I have one customer that brings his wifes BMW to me, because he saw me detailing by hand when he pulled up in his car. He had the same concerns and so I do it by hand (with the price increase a little). They pay so it is not a problem.
 
First question is why is this Doctor talking with you in the first place since he seems to be convinced that the previous detailer knows it all? If he liked the work before why would he be considering jumping ship? There has to something that was less than perfect for him to be shopping. Even if you approached him, if he was completely satisfied he would have said so and told you "good day". The fact that you did not sell him in the first go around could mean it's too late already. If you come back with more reasons now he will wonder why this new information was not presented when you first talked. If you do get the opportunity he may question your sudden found knowledge.



I will tell you from experience that Doctors in general may have the money to buy these fancy toys, but in general their attention to cleanliness stops with their work. Some of the dirtiest vehicles we get are from doctors. Their minds are busy with other stuff more so than their cars. Please note in many doctors cars we have found needles and drug samples laying around. Be real careful. I do not know if they are just absent minded, slobs or entertaining themselves.



If you have the opportunity to show this person your work, that is what it will take. On many customers I have them pull in and polish a corner or some small area to show them the difference. If they are nervous I show them something on either my vehicle or one that may be in process in the shop. Getting past the wonders of clay may be difficult as there are many people that think it is the end all for paint finishes. While it has a place in our business I do not clay every vehicle or clay then wax with out some type of polishing taking place. It is a tool used to remove surafce contamination and can be used to microfinish paint, but the paint while feeling smooth, will still need either a foam rotary finish or at least dual action orbital polish in order to remove the marking the clay will leave. If you read the small tips in any Griot's Garage catalog they tell stories of show car owners claying their cars paint then wiping his show car brand of wax over that and they win every time. The problem with these type of articles is that they forget to mention that these are """SHOW CARS""", not daily drivers. These people do this moments before the car is seen or right there during a show. Any wax looks good for the day. It will also cover up most marks for a short time. After the show the cars are either trailered or driven straight home and locked up until the next show. Far from realistic usage that the rest of us deal with. Put these outside for a week or two and drive them to work and back and you'll suddenly be able to see that micro marring the clay leaves under that great wax as it evaporates under the sun and rain.



Be very careful with this customer. If he has this many reservations about what you have told him you can do then it could be a very bad experience for both of you.



Regarding the comments of not telling customers what your process is works only when they do not ask. If you are asked about the process you could not take a polisher to their vehicle knowing their concern without permission. That is just asking for trouble. Come on guys, lets be professionals, not disclosing your procedures because you know better than the customer does little to raise the bar in this profession. If your customer tells you they heard bad things about buffing, you need to address the issue up front by example or knowledgeable conversation. Never would you go ahead and buff the car knowing their fears and thinking you'll just prove them wrong. By experience, training and keeping to a higher standard you should be able to convince the customer that your system is the best way for them to take care of their car. If this cannot be done upfront it is much better to turn the business down in a professional manner, than getting into a sticky situation later.

Here is a perfect example. I had an attorney call me and say he needed a detail. He then went on to say that I will remove his wheels and clean the back sides, I will remove a seats and clean underneath, and that I will use the wax that he will bring me and hand finish his vehicle. I took time to explain my process which did not include any of the above. Reasons being high liability if a lug nut or seat bolt cross threaded and broke or stripped, plus I explained that no amount of hand polishing will end up as even a result as what I can accomplish with my machines. He listened and then repeated his demands. I sincerely thanked him for calling me and told him that I felt it would be better for him to find a business that was willing to do the worked his way. That was two years ago. Apparently he never got what he wanted as came back to me. He never tells me how to do his work any more and brings in his 4 personal vehicles and recommends all his friends. Who says the customer is always right? You have to know enough to tell a customer NO and turning down business can be the right thing to do.

Just my thoughts.

Good luck!!!
 
ShineShop said:
I am sick and tired of people in here going on about rotary buffers and how you shouldn't use them etc... The problem is not the rotary polisher - the problem is the person using it! A porter cable will NEVER acheive the results that a rotary polisher can achieve. It's a fact.

The problem is there are far too many uneducated morons out there that for some reason feel that "detailing" should be the profession of choice for anyone and everyone which has led to a general bad reputation for the profession.

More customers SHOULD be so picky as this guy with the porsche and not let just anybody work on their car.

What is needed is to prove to this guy that you can diagnose and then correct the problems with his vehicle and he will be your customer forever.



I don't think anyone is specifically saying not to use rotary buffers as their tool of choice, more that potential customers have fears about them because of careless use by untrained detailers. When someone has had problems in the past, it is hard to convince them that properly using a buffer will not leave swirls all over their pride and joy. You can blame hackers and dealership makeready departments for that attitude. When someone calls me to remove swirls from their brand new car, without even knowing the what kind of car, all I have to ask is "did you buy it from a Don Davis dealership?" and 9 times out of 10, that is where they bought it. I ought to send Don Davis a thank-you card for all the business I get from them screwing up brand new cars.



That is the problem we face with using buffers and some people, no matter how much you try to educate them, will insist on having their cars done by hand. Fine. Charge them more. Most will understand that it will take longer and the work is harder. I've explained to my regulars who prefer hand polishing and waxing that I am getting a buffer because new paints are so hard that removing scratches by hand either takes way too long or is just not possible. If they still want me to do all the work by hand, fine, but they will pay more. I certainly will not tell a group of customers that pay me (together) on average about $10,000 a year for washing/waxing/detailing that I will no longer take car of their cars if they won't let me use a buffer.
 
I agree completely with what Aurora said. But, of course, I'm probably not the normal customer either. If someone used a machine on my car after I said not to, "livid" doesn't cover how furious I would be. If someone did that, I would never be able to trust them - no matter how well it came out.



Convince him with words or demo, not by being sneaky.
 
Scottwax said:
I've explained to my regulars who prefer hand polishing and waxing that I am getting a buffer because new paints are so hard that removing scratches by hand either takes way too long or is just not possible.



Say it ain't so! This forum just won't be the same without the legendary hand detailed pics you post! :(
 
Intermezzo said:
Say it ain't so! This forum just won't be the same without the legendary hand detailed pics you post! :(



I'd mostly be getting one for working out serious paint defects more quickly. Final polishing and waxing I would continue to do by hand.



Most of my customer's cars are in good enough shape that I'd rarely need to use a buffer.
 
I have to diagree with you Aurora (repectfully of course)....LOL



First off I don't think you understand what I meant with the doctor comment. What i meant was The "action " the doctor needs has already been established "The Polish ". Now being the Professional detailer you have to tell him how this is done. For example Your doctor says you need a heart transplant (The "action")

His paint is bad and needs fixing/your heart is bad and needs fixing.



He is the "Professtional" in this case. We already know the problem."He" has to switch your heart. If you don't like a scalpal because you heard that it cun cut you very badly, are you going to tell him to use a spoon instead?????????



Sorry I should have used a better example in the frist place...



Second as a customer you don't have the "Right" to tell me how to do my job. You can let me know how you think or you would like it done, but if it's wrong it's wrong. If someone comes in and says I want you to take this tree sap off with 200 grit sand paper are you going to do it????? And If you think"Well thats what the customer wants so thats what he's gonna get " Your wrong. You take off the tree sap like that and I garantee he's not going to be happy. And I gaurantee he won't recommend you after he see's the mess it's made. You said in your post "it dosn't matter if the results are good" I'm sorry but it does.



Finally if the cutomer thinks in mind that the car is going to look a certain way after a hand polish and after your done it dosn't. Guess What!!

We don't know the condition of the car when it was done last. It could have been mint, and a nice hand polish just added a beautiful shine to an already great finish????? Now, he is saying the car is a totaly different shade due to abuse. Unless you are a bodybuilder it's gonna be near impossible to correct it by hand.



What I'm trying to say is that if he thinks a hand polish is going to give this absolutly amazing finish like last time, and you pull it out with only pretty good results, he is going to blame you and say your a BAD detailer. Even if you explain to him that this is the best it could look by hand he's not going to believe you. And he's gonna think the other guy was much better.

"A customer who is happy tells a few. A customer who is un-happy tells everyone"



These comments I made, are made with 100% respect for others.

I was just defending what I said. These are only my opions.



thanks for the feed back by the way Aurora I appreciate it



:wavey



......................................Clint (sorry for the bad spelling.LOL)
 
Scottwax said:
I don't think anyone is specifically saying not to use rotary buffers as their tool of choice, more that potential customers have fears about them because of careless use by untrained detailers. When someone has had problems in the past, it is hard to convince them that properly using a buffer will not leave swirls all over their pride and joy. You can blame hackers and dealership makeready departments for that attitude....

I think this post pretty much sums up the "fear of machine polishing" phenomenon. :up



I think I recall reading something ealier about a huge number of people in the industry using rotary buffers, but only a handful of them knowing how to use them well. :nixweiss
 
He is the "Professtional" in this case. We already know the problem."He" has to switch your heart. If you don't like a scalpal because you heard that it cun cut you very badly, are you going to tell him to use a spoon instead?????????



Well, if I think surgery is risky, maybe I'll pass on it. So if I told the doctor I feel surgery has too many down-sides and I'd rather just try to make some lifestyle changes, what should he say? Should he say "I'm the professional. Get the surgery or get the hell out of my office" or should he try to help the best he can within the restrictions I'm comfortable with? If I died from not getting the surgery, I don't think I'd blame him. But I'd sure as hell sue if he transplanted my heart without my permission!



Second as a customer you don't have the "Right" to tell me how to do my job. You can let me know how you think or you would like it done, but if it's wrong it's wrong. If someone comes in and says I want you to take this tree sap off with 200 grit sand paper are you going to do it????? And If you think"Well thats what the customer wants so thats what he's gonna get " Your wrong. You take off the tree sap like that and I garantee he's not going to be happy. And I gaurantee he won't recommend you after he see's the mess it's made. You said in your post "it dosn't matter if the results are good" I'm sorry but it does.



So you think that I don't have any say over what happens to my car? Especially when I'm paying you to do it? Of course, you don't have to do it if you don't want to. But if you take the job, I am paying you to do a service, not to do some other service that I don't want just because you think it's best. I may not have a right to tell you how to do your job, but I sure as hell have a right to decide what can and can't be done to my car. See, it's my car and my money, so it only matters what I think is best. If you don't want to do it, then you don't have to do it. But you can't apply your values to something that doesn't belong to you. The sanding example isn't really the same because hand polishing someone's car won't ruin it. Sanding their sap off will. Surely you can't tell me that polishing the car by machine is more gentle than polishing it by hand. I'm sure you can be totally safe with the buffer, but it will be more aggressive (which is why it will work better). Maybe the guy has had his car sanded before or aggressively compounded, or who knows what (or maybe he's just a freak about machines like we're freaks about other things). He doesn't need to explain to you why he doesn't want you to use a machine. All he needs to do is let you know not to use one. Every time I take my car to the dealer for work, I don't have to explain why I don't want them to wash my car. I just tell them not to and they'd better not. If they did it anyway and said "see, the result is better than when it was dirty" I'd be mighty angry. Again, if you don't feel you can do the work he is asking you to do, then don't do it. But don't think you just know better than he does and can therefore ignore his request.



What I'm trying to say is that if he thinks a hand polish is going to give this absolutly amazing finish like last time, and you pull it out with only pretty good results, he is going to blame you and say your a BAD detailer. Even if you explain to him that this is the best it could look by hand he's not going to believe you. And he's gonna think the other guy was much better.



I think it's possible to explain to someone what they can expect. If the guy continues to have unreasonable expectations, then maybe you shouldn't do any work for him, even if he's cool with the buffing. I think most rational people can appreciate an explanation of reasonable expectations. But, if the person doesn't seem like they'd be reasonable about it, then you are absolutely right. You wouldn't want to do the work for that person. Although, that won't stop them from spreading bad word. Instead of saying "that guy detailed my car and it still looks like crap" they'll say "that guy was a jerk and didn't care about how I wanted my car done". Which is worse? :nixweiss



These comments I made, are made with 100% respect for others.

I was just defending what I said. These are only my opions.



thanks for the feed back by the way Aurora I appreciate it



:wavey



......................................Clint (sorry for the bad spelling.LOL)



Hey, it's good stuff. There is nothing wrong with a little debate. :wavey
 
Masterfinish said:
First question is why is this Doctor talking with you in the first place since he seems to be convinced that the previous detailer knows it all? If he liked the work before why would he be considering jumping ship? There has to something that was less than perfect for him to be shopping. Even if you approached him, if he was completely satisfied he would have said so and told you "good day". The fact that you did not sell him in the first go around could mean it's too late already. If you come back with more reasons now he will wonder why this new information was not presented when you first talked. If you do get the opportunity he may question your sudden found knowledge.



I will tell you from experience that Doctors in general may have the money to buy these fancy toys, but in general their attention to cleanliness stops with their work. Some of the dirtiest vehicles we get are from doctors. Their minds are busy with other stuff more so than their cars. Please note in many doctors cars we have found needles and drug samples laying around. Be real careful. I do not know if they are just absent minded, slobs or entertaining themselves.



If you have the opportunity to show this person your work, that is what it will take. On many customers I have them pull in and polish a corner or some small area to show them the difference. If they are nervous I show them something on either my vehicle or one that may be in process in the shop. Getting past the wonders of clay may be difficult as there are many people that think it is the end all for paint finishes. While it has a place in our business I do not clay every vehicle or clay then wax with out some type of polishing taking place. It is a tool used to remove surafce contamination and can be used to microfinish paint, but the paint while feeling smooth, will still need either a foam rotary finish or at least dual action orbital polish in order to remove the marking the clay will leave. If you read the small tips in any Griot's Garage catalog they tell stories of show car owners claying their cars paint then wiping his show car brand of wax over that and they win every time. The problem with these type of articles is that they forget to mention that these are """SHOW CARS""", not daily drivers. These people do this moments before the car is seen or right there during a show. Any wax looks good for the day. It will also cover up most marks for a short time. After the show the cars are either trailered or driven straight home and locked up until the next show. Far from realistic usage that the rest of us deal with. Put these outside for a week or two and drive them to work and back and you'll suddenly be able to see that micro marring the clay leaves under that great wax as it evaporates under the sun and rain.



Be very careful with this customer. If he has this many reservations about what you have told him you can do then it could be a very bad experience for both of you.



Regarding the comments of not telling customers what your process is works only when they do not ask. If you are asked about the process you could not take a polisher to their vehicle knowing their concern without permission. That is just asking for trouble. Come on guys, lets be professionals, not disclosing your procedures because you know better than the customer does little to raise the bar in this profession. If your customer tells you they heard bad things about buffing, you need to address the issue up front by example or knowledgeable conversation. Never would you go ahead and buff the car knowing their fears and thinking you'll just prove them wrong. By experience, training and keeping to a higher standard you should be able to convince the customer that your system is the best way for them to take care of their car. If this cannot be done upfront it is much better to turn the business down in a professional manner, than getting into a sticky situation later.

Here is a perfect example. I had an attorney call me and say he needed a detail. He then went on to say that I will remove his wheels and clean the back sides, I will remove a seats and clean underneath, and that I will use the wax that he will bring me and hand finish his vehicle. I took time to explain my process which did not include any of the above. Reasons being high liability if a lug nut or seat bolt cross threaded and broke or stripped, plus I explained that no amount of hand polishing will end up as even a result as what I can accomplish with my machines. He listened and then repeated his demands. I sincerely thanked him for calling me and told him that I felt it would be better for him to find a business that was willing to do the worked his way. That was two years ago. Apparently he never got what he wanted as came back to me. He never tells me how to do his work any more and brings in his 4 personal vehicles and recommends all his friends. Who says the customer is always right? You have to know enough to tell a customer NO and turning down business can be the right thing to do.

Just my thoughts.

Good luck!!!



VERY WELL STATED!
 
I want to thank everyone for their imput , but I'd like to especially thanks , scottwax , shineshop , masterfinish , intel486 , clinton and aurora40. You all have very good thoughts and have been very helpful. Thanks abunch. I will post before and afters of the porsche.:D
 
Ha Ha good job Aurora, It's nice to have a good debate now and again. It gives the other people watching a chance to see both sides of the coin.



When you say you have the right to say what gets done to your car, you are 100% correct, I would never suggest you didn't.



I was also taking my examples to the extreme. I was suggesting there was NO other alternatives in order to get my point accross. I know you can hand polish with great results, and I make it seem like I would tell the customer "NO GET THE F**K OUT" Ha HA I would never say that even if the customer was a real jerk. Like I said "Extreme".



What I am saying is if there is a certain way that a job "HAS" to be done, and customer doesn't like it done that way and there is no other way, Then we the option to say we won't do the job.



And, you are correct in saying it is good to explain to the customer the options and if he does not want the machine polish that the hand might not produce the same results. I agree with you. I was stateing that a hand polish was not an option and a machine was.



All in all if you read between the lines we are saying the same thing from different prospectives. "Take care of the Cutomer".



I used to be a sales manager for Mercedes and for Dodge, Chrysler, so sometimes my tactics turn aggresive without me even knowing it........................LOL, It's nice to get the customers feed back...........Thanks alot.







.................................Clint
 
Ask him if he let's his patients do their own diagnosis and treatment or does he do that? Same applies to you when he comes to you for professional services.



I don't let the passengers tell us how to fly the airplane! Luckily, most of them trust our judgement.

:argue
 
Great discussion...



Just one question to detailbarn... how come you always type "imputs" instead of "inputs"? just wondering...



Funny, here in Manila, most customers have this notion that "rotary is the only way to go" and doesn't like "hand polishing"... It's even hard to convince them not to have their car compounded in most cases... Even if a polish + wax would do a great job, they'll still INSIST on getting the compounding stage done...



That's another level of misguided consumers.
 
COEX-PILOT said:
Ask him if he let's his patients do their own diagnosis and treatment or does he do that? Same applies to you when he comes to you for professional services.



When I go to the doctor, I expect the doctor to do the diagnosis. I expect the doctor to explain the diagnosis and treatment. I expect the doctor to respect my wishes, if I say no to surgery.



I don't let the passengers tell us how to fly the airplane! Luckily, most of them trust our judgement.

:argue



If you were my personal pilot and I asked you not to fly at night because it made me nervous, I would danged well expect you to respect my wishes. If not, I most certainly wouldn't use your services again. And I would tell all my friends that my wishes were ignored.
 
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