Money sure doesn't buy brains...
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Thomas Dekany
New member
too much miss info.
1 - that lexus has single stage paint. At least the ones I have done. there is no clear coat on it. that isn't dirt that is coming off. IT IS PAINT. HAPPENS EVEN WITH THE PC.
2 - Funny how this guy says he is a real man for using a high speed buffer, yet he calls it an high speed orbital instead of a rotary. He must be nervous.
3 - using your nail to remove residue? :wall :wall :wall
4 - I can show you how you can burn the paint very easily using the same method.
5- he is obviously an experienced rotary user. No newby could ever do what he just did on the side of the car.
6 - I liked how he didin't get any slinging with that much product. :getdown
7 - never stop the rotary the way he did with the side of the pad.
8 - if you are the guy filming it, it looks like the weather was cloudy. Wish you took some pictures of the panel. to see holograms etc...
1 - that lexus has single stage paint. At least the ones I have done. there is no clear coat on it. that isn't dirt that is coming off. IT IS PAINT. HAPPENS EVEN WITH THE PC.
2 - Funny how this guy says he is a real man for using a high speed buffer, yet he calls it an high speed orbital instead of a rotary. He must be nervous.
3 - using your nail to remove residue? :wall :wall :wall
4 - I can show you how you can burn the paint very easily using the same method.
5- he is obviously an experienced rotary user. No newby could ever do what he just did on the side of the car.
6 - I liked how he didin't get any slinging with that much product. :getdown
7 - never stop the rotary the way he did with the side of the pad.
8 - if you are the guy filming it, it looks like the weather was cloudy. Wish you took some pictures of the panel. to see holograms etc...
imported_Amused
New member
Ok...
1) He said he was doing the detail in sunlight, however you can clearly see it's mostly cloudy out in the reflections. I think the sun peeked out once and washed out the video.
2) The quality of the video was terrible, and nothing could be discerned from what he did. Did he clean the paint?...induce hazing/holograms/burn paint? It was impossible to tell. The lack of a focused light source and a clear view hides anything! It's a sham and I hope the M5 owners won't be fooled by this video. Once they learn what to look for, they can spot a knowledgeable detailer from a hack.
3) At the rate he was moving the rotary, I can't imagine there not being any holograms. I'm not impressed nor am I convinced with what he did. The way he was talking sounded like he read a pamphlet and tried his best to regurgitate(poor job by the way).
4) Was that car painted with single stage paint? I don't recall clearcoat ever leaving tons of black on the pad. Did he polish the car without washing it?!?! If that's what's left over from his miracle "water only" wash, there is NO chance he didn't induce marring from that polishing.
5) Why not take pictures with a focused light source? Even a camera's flash is capable of showing off the true condition of the surface.
1) He said he was doing the detail in sunlight, however you can clearly see it's mostly cloudy out in the reflections. I think the sun peeked out once and washed out the video.
2) The quality of the video was terrible, and nothing could be discerned from what he did. Did he clean the paint?...induce hazing/holograms/burn paint? It was impossible to tell. The lack of a focused light source and a clear view hides anything! It's a sham and I hope the M5 owners won't be fooled by this video. Once they learn what to look for, they can spot a knowledgeable detailer from a hack.
3) At the rate he was moving the rotary, I can't imagine there not being any holograms. I'm not impressed nor am I convinced with what he did. The way he was talking sounded like he read a pamphlet and tried his best to regurgitate(poor job by the way).
4) Was that car painted with single stage paint? I don't recall clearcoat ever leaving tons of black on the pad. Did he polish the car without washing it?!?! If that's what's left over from his miracle "water only" wash, there is NO chance he didn't induce marring from that polishing.
5) Why not take pictures with a focused light source? Even a camera's flash is capable of showing off the true condition of the surface.
He got me on two spelling mistakes, so I guess I can't criticize too much on that. A couple things that struck me as odd were the terry cloth rag to clean off excess compound and he used the same pad for differing products. It was good to see him not act like an *** on the video for us being so critical of his technique. He called me an e-thug, so to him I apologize because that wasn't really my intent. I just know that what I've learned and seen here just don't jive with what he's saying.
He mentioned thinking faster than he can type sometimes for spelling errors. When I do that it looks like this; nsubliu0'FIJIEFBFJHHIFhiudfjhf bwh;pfyw. It takes a little longer for me to type than most.
Don't worry Realtycar, not trying to be an e-thug.
He mentioned thinking faster than he can type sometimes for spelling errors. When I do that it looks like this; nsubliu0'FIJIEFBFJHHIFhiudfjhf bwh;pfyw. It takes a little longer for me to type than most.
Don't worry Realtycar, not trying to be an e-thug.
imported_chpsk8
New member
That video proves nothing. It's poor quality and pretty dark. Nice try, but really... show us something worthwhile Mr Miagi.
imported_Amused
New member
chpsk8 said:
It's Mr. Miyagi, chpsk8...no worries though, I got your back! :hifive:
Still waiting for full sun shots. Anything less won't prove a thing.
Several points:
1. The recommendation that if you don't want to buff out your car yourself that you take it to your dealer or a bodyshop is insane. I honestly ought to send a thank-you card to Moritz BMW for all the business I get fixing their horrible details. I can do the same for numerous body shops in the Dallas area. I regularly see new cars from all dealers covered in buffer holograms.
2. Even very experienced rotary users still end up with buffer holograms and burnt paint (usually on an edge) so there is pretty much no way the average person with no experience can jump right in with a rotary and not have serious problems.
3. Car wash soap has been around for as long as I can remember (back to the early 70s when I used to help my Dad wash the cars) so your statement about them only being out 5 years is competely wrong.
4. P21S is an excellent wax but on black it is definitely not the one that looks best to me. Nice and wet but not much depth. If you like it great but remember that what looks best to your eyes may not look best to others.
5. Diapers are a poor choice of medium to remove polish and wax from paint. There is no nap so any dirt that gets on the surface has the potential to scratch the paint. Microfiber is the best choice by far. I've been detailing cars professionally for 14 years now and microfiber and detailing clay are by far the two biggest new products that have made my job easier.
6. I'd put money on that Lexus's paint being a single stage paint job and yes, you were removing paint. I have probably detailed 30+ black Lexus and only one has had a clear coat. All the rest were single stage paint and left my pads black. Like other's pointed out, you could do the same with a PC, Cyclo and evey by hand. It isn't even really a bad thing if the surface of the paint needs correction. Same with clearcoats, you just don't see what you are removing on the pads.
7. I'd love to see the paint thickness readings on that panel where you held the buffer in one spot before and after.
8. "How much closer of a PHOTO can you get than this one http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/7851/bfaf6ur.jpg " -that picture shows nothing, no sun on it so no way to tell the true conditon of your paint.
9. You are setting up a lot of people for a very unhappy detailing experience.
10. Sean (g35stilez) is an excellent detailer, I have actually referred people on another board to him and they thanked me for letting them know about him and were thrilled with the work he did...and, when he posts pictures, he tries to show before and after shots in the full sun. I'd let him detail my car and I do this for my sole source of income.
Several points:
1. The recommendation that if you don't want to buff out your car yourself that you take it to your dealer or a bodyshop is insane. I honestly ought to send a thank-you card to Moritz BMW for all the business I get fixing their horrible details. I can do the same for numerous body shops in the Dallas area. I regularly see new cars from all dealers covered in buffer holograms.
2. Even very experienced rotary users still end up with buffer holograms and burnt paint (usually on an edge) so there is pretty much no way the average person with no experience can jump right in with a rotary and not have serious problems.
3. Car wash soap has been around for as long as I can remember (back to the early 70s when I used to help my Dad wash the cars) so your statement about them only being out 5 years is competely wrong.
4. P21S is an excellent wax but on black it is definitely not the one that looks best to me. Nice and wet but not much depth. If you like it great but remember that what looks best to your eyes may not look best to others.
5. Diapers are a poor choice of medium to remove polish and wax from paint. There is no nap so any dirt that gets on the surface has the potential to scratch the paint. Microfiber is the best choice by far. I've been detailing cars professionally for 14 years now and microfiber and detailing clay are by far the two biggest new products that have made my job easier.
6. I'd put money on that Lexus's paint being a single stage paint job and yes, you were removing paint. I have probably detailed 30+ black Lexus and only one has had a clear coat. All the rest were single stage paint and left my pads black. Like other's pointed out, you could do the same with a PC, Cyclo and evey by hand. It isn't even really a bad thing if the surface of the paint needs correction. Same with clearcoats, you just don't see what you are removing on the pads.
7. I'd love to see the paint thickness readings on that panel where you held the buffer in one spot before and after.
8. "How much closer of a PHOTO can you get than this one http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/7851/bfaf6ur.jpg " -that picture shows nothing, no sun on it so no way to tell the true conditon of your paint.
9. You are setting up a lot of people for a very unhappy detailing experience.
10. Sean (g35stilez) is an excellent detailer, I have actually referred people on another board to him and they thanked me for letting them know about him and were thrilled with the work he did...and, when he posts pictures, he tries to show before and after shots in the full sun. I'd let him detail my car and I do this for my sole source of income.
Boy, when he says rag, he really means it eh? That Adam's Detail Spray is funny looking water. I'll give the guy kudos for keeping his cool on the video. It seems like he really believes in what he is doing, and anyone who hasn't spent any real time on any of the detailing forums will surely be convinced.
The bottom line is, we need FULL SUN shots to show any holograms, micro marring, etc. Put that car under a halogen at a gas station at night and take some pictures, then we can talk. Also, if he's so convinced that you can use a compound with a rotary at 1400 rpm and not leave any marring behind, why does he continually mention going from compound, to swirl remover, to glaze, to wax. *sigh* I'll stick with my PC, thanks.
The bottom line is, we need FULL SUN shots to show any holograms, micro marring, etc. Put that car under a halogen at a gas station at night and take some pictures, then we can talk. Also, if he's so convinced that you can use a compound with a rotary at 1400 rpm and not leave any marring behind, why does he continually mention going from compound, to swirl remover, to glaze, to wax. *sigh* I'll stick with my PC, thanks.
Anthony O.
New member
Mr. Realitycar....
Here is some "reality". I have been doing this as a professional now for 17 years and it sure is odd how I used car shampoo 17 years ago yet you claim it was invented only "5 years ago"? You had better do a bit more research.
Also, here is another reality check. AND please....PLEASE you M5 owners be aware of this...FOAM cutting pads wil generate MORE heat than a WOOL pad. Mr Reality wants you to believe that a rotary spinning at 3000 rpm's is totally safe and it won't burn your paint....because "it's new technology" :grinno: What, is it only 5 years old also?
The foam pad has been out for a very long time and it will surely burn your paint faster than you can blink if you're not careful. DO NOT use a high speed rotary at anything over 1700 rpm's on your new M5s......or at least ask Mr. Reality to give you a legal document stating your paint won't be harmed and if so he fronts the money for a new repaint.
Your BMW clear is only as think as a plastic trash can liner and it's basically plastic....what happens when you heat up really thin plastic? It melts!
Let's look at a few of these "pearls of wisdom".
Mr. Reality stated:
You would NEVER want to buff your wax on at 1400 rpm's. Random orbit machines are used for wax and glaze application. Rotary machines are used and designed for paint correction. Once the paint is corrected, as in swirls removed, you would then either hand apply your wax or use a DA, like a Cyclo or PC.
Mr. Reality stated:
This is incorrect information. If it is a "swirl remover" but has no grit or abrasive how then is it removing the swirls? The ONLY way to remove paint defects is to remove the layer of paint where the defect resides and this is done by way of abrasives PLUS your application method and pad choice.
Again, getting paint to hot is really bad as it pushes the defect further into the paint. This is why the paint should not be heated above 117 while doing paint correction. So using an "ONLY HEAT" product is not the product I would recommend.
Mr. Reality stated:
Top Of The Lines Wheel Wash beats it hands down.....but I guess you know this right? As you have "used everything".
Mr. Reality stated:
We already covered this one.
Mr Reality stated:
Sure, if you're practicing for "Fear Factor". You run your buffer at 1400 rpms with a cutting pad for 20 seconds and then slap your face on it you will be in for a nice surprise. Think about it people....rub a coin on your jeans for a few seconds then place it on your friends neck or cheek....it's hot!
Mr. Reality stated:
This is classic. And you know this how Mr. Reality?? Mr. Reality how thick is an OEM clear on an M5?
Every time you use anything abrasive on the car you are REMOVING paint. Even a clay bar used to much will thin out your paint. Please M5 people....take this advice from this guy with a grain of salt.
Mr. Reality stated:
:grinno: :lol I see...so it "blends" the swirls away and makes the scratches "smooth" Gee, and us pros have been doing it all butt backwards for all these years!!
Serious Mr. Reality, I am in contact with several REAL chemists...the guys that actually make the paints you are buffing on, and they will tell you, as they have me many times, in order to remove paint defects the defected paint must be removed. There is no magical chemical or pixie dust that blends and smooths them away.
I have no personal issue with Mr. Reality, he has a beautiful car and it looks great. My issue is with his horrible detailing advice. Again, take it with a grain of salt.
Anthony
Here is some "reality". I have been doing this as a professional now for 17 years and it sure is odd how I used car shampoo 17 years ago yet you claim it was invented only "5 years ago"? You had better do a bit more research.
Also, here is another reality check. AND please....PLEASE you M5 owners be aware of this...FOAM cutting pads wil generate MORE heat than a WOOL pad. Mr Reality wants you to believe that a rotary spinning at 3000 rpm's is totally safe and it won't burn your paint....because "it's new technology" :grinno: What, is it only 5 years old also?
The foam pad has been out for a very long time and it will surely burn your paint faster than you can blink if you're not careful. DO NOT use a high speed rotary at anything over 1700 rpm's on your new M5s......or at least ask Mr. Reality to give you a legal document stating your paint won't be harmed and if so he fronts the money for a new repaint.
Your BMW clear is only as think as a plastic trash can liner and it's basically plastic....what happens when you heat up really thin plastic? It melts!
Let's look at a few of these "pearls of wisdom".
Mr. Reality stated:
You would NEVER want to buff your wax on at 1400 rpm's. Random orbit machines are used for wax and glaze application. Rotary machines are used and designed for paint correction. Once the paint is corrected, as in swirls removed, you would then either hand apply your wax or use a DA, like a Cyclo or PC.
Mr. Reality stated:
This is incorrect information. If it is a "swirl remover" but has no grit or abrasive how then is it removing the swirls? The ONLY way to remove paint defects is to remove the layer of paint where the defect resides and this is done by way of abrasives PLUS your application method and pad choice.
Again, getting paint to hot is really bad as it pushes the defect further into the paint. This is why the paint should not be heated above 117 while doing paint correction. So using an "ONLY HEAT" product is not the product I would recommend.
Mr. Reality stated:
Top Of The Lines Wheel Wash beats it hands down.....but I guess you know this right? As you have "used everything".
Mr. Reality stated:
We already covered this one.
Mr Reality stated:
Sure, if you're practicing for "Fear Factor". You run your buffer at 1400 rpms with a cutting pad for 20 seconds and then slap your face on it you will be in for a nice surprise. Think about it people....rub a coin on your jeans for a few seconds then place it on your friends neck or cheek....it's hot!
Mr. Reality stated:
This is classic. And you know this how Mr. Reality?? Mr. Reality how thick is an OEM clear on an M5?
Every time you use anything abrasive on the car you are REMOVING paint. Even a clay bar used to much will thin out your paint. Please M5 people....take this advice from this guy with a grain of salt.
Mr. Reality stated:
:grinno: :lol I see...so it "blends" the swirls away and makes the scratches "smooth" Gee, and us pros have been doing it all butt backwards for all these years!!
Serious Mr. Reality, I am in contact with several REAL chemists...the guys that actually make the paints you are buffing on, and they will tell you, as they have me many times, in order to remove paint defects the defected paint must be removed. There is no magical chemical or pixie dust that blends and smooths them away.
I have no personal issue with Mr. Reality, he has a beautiful car and it looks great. My issue is with his horrible detailing advice. Again, take it with a grain of salt.
Anthony
imported_Amused
New member
I just noticed that most of his posts have been edited at one point or another...fishy...
I've also noticed a lot of discrepancies throughout his postings:
later on...
quite conflicting :think:
no debating?
Does he kick his own @ss at night?
Interesting...my memory must be fading because I distinctly remember the 2 Lexus dealership in my area telling me that Lexus used to use a lot of single stage paint the past. Gosh, they must have all been lying to me! :LOLOL
Ugh...so many quotes...so little time.
I've also noticed a lot of discrepancies throughout his postings:
Realtycar said:
later on...
Realtycar said:
quite conflicting :think:
Realtycar said:
no debating?
Realtycar said:
Does he kick his own @ss at night?
Realtycar said:
Interesting...my memory must be fading because I distinctly remember the 2 Lexus dealership in my area telling me that Lexus used to use a lot of single stage paint the past. Gosh, they must have all been lying to me! :LOLOL
Ugh...so many quotes...so little time.
Well, it finally got to me. I am not interested in arguing with someone over cyberspace, but I don't want to see those M Cars messed up :nono .
I have been a member there for a couple weeks (own a 745, and can't WAIT for my M6 to get here!!!!). I posted the following:
I have been a member there for a couple weeks (own a 745, and can't WAIT for my M6 to get here!!!!). I posted the following:
Harkonen said:
SVR
Dream Machines
Anthony's on the money as usual
What a tool. 3M SR is gritty stuff, I've taken all the metallic off one of my car's 1998 2K paint by hand with about seven applications of strong polish so what is a rotary gonna do
Finishing glaze is full of fillers correct?
I agree with scotty, p21s wax doesn't give much depth, I prefer collinite marque for that
Would love to see his car under sodium vapour lights.
What a tool. 3M SR is gritty stuff, I've taken all the metallic off one of my car's 1998 2K paint by hand with about seven applications of strong polish so what is a rotary gonna do
Finishing glaze is full of fillers correct?
I agree with scotty, p21s wax doesn't give much depth, I prefer collinite marque for that
Would love to see his car under sodium vapour lights.
foxtrapper
New member
Well, he did his video, and it showed the results he claimed. And if others follow his example exactly, they'll get the same results.
He's getting good results, so what's to complain about? There's plenty of disinformation spread around in autopia, so it's not like this forum can claim a moral high ground on truth.
He's getting good results, so what's to complain about? There's plenty of disinformation spread around in autopia, so it's not like this forum can claim a moral high ground on truth.
topnotchtouch
New member
Ohhh the drama, so this is why the wifey likes soaps so much
drew.haynes
New member
foxtrapper said:
What to complain about would be results you can only achieve a very limited number of times before doing permanent damage.
Zach said:
Zach, looks like you've been hanging out with Mr.Realitycar too much or listening to him pretending he is the Detail God. The paint would come off onto the pad as these Lexus' are single stage, meaning no clearcoat. And if it is dirt like you say...even worse. Never buff a vehicle when the surface isn't properly cleaned. And yes there is a need to tape off parts, because if this guy knows it all like he says he does...he should be professional and tape off parts which he could damage...he clearly went onto the taillight two times. I would shoot that guy if he did that to my car...but then again I wouldnt let this guy come onto my property let alone touch my car. And the reason you dont see any burns or scratches is because this guy did all his work in the shade...once again look at previous posts in this thread that shows full sunlight pics that this guy isnt posting. He's a fake...I feel bad for anyone who even knows this guy.
Pretty sad when a 19 yr old who just started detailing less than a year ago knows more than this fool. If I was 3M i would be embarrassed to have this guy endorsing their products. This guy basically thinks because he has money or owns a couple bodyshops he knows everything? He talks to us like we know nothing and that we're shmucks for going to people's house or business to clean their car....Whatever at least I dont screw people over just to get ahead in life - Alls he wants to do is talk crap and ask where our videos are...has he not visited the click and brag section, where even noobs post full sun pictures...?? I hope this guy does join just so we can ban his smart ***
foxtrapper said:
Are you serious? Playing Devil's advocate here? Yeah, there is disinformation here too, but when several professionals here with years of rotary experience are calling this guy out, I'm going to side with them.
Until he shows his results in the full sun or with halogen lighting, there is no way to know if he achieved the results he claimed. Believe me, I have buffed out enough black cars in the shade and then pulled them out into the sun to see either I missed something completely, I didn't remove all the defects or I had some marring issues that needed correction. Shade hides too much.
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