Market Monopolizing

[CharlesW]

Given that there are quite few threads/posts about product availability from other than the site sponsors, I don't really see how anyone can feel that DC practices "Market Monopolizing".

Some examples:
Collinite
Mothers
Car Brite
Auto Magic
Ardex
Zaino
Propel pads
PC's from Lowe's or Amazon.com
MF's from Pak Shak, Excell, Target, Wal*Mart
Folex
Prestone Upholstery cleaner

That's probably more than enough to make my point and it isn't even close to all of them.

The one thing that I do think is in extremely bad taste is to post information about a competitive product in a manufacturers forum. That seldom happens, but it has been done.

The immediate posting of a difficulty with a vendors order before you have even contacted the vendor about the problem also seems a little less than a classy move to me.
That includes all vendors, not just the site sponsors.

Fire away, I'm ready. :boxing:

:gun_banda Charles

 

[G35stilez]

First, let's look at the definition of market monopolizing:

n.(an organization or group which has) complete control of something, especially an area of business, so that others have no share

cited: www.freesearch.com (Dictionary)

The one thing that I do think is in extremely bad taste is to post information about a competitive product in a manufacturers forum. That seldom happens, but it has been done.

The immediate posting of a difficulty with a vendors order before you have even contacted the vendor about the problem also seems a little less than a classy move to me.
That includes all vendors, not just the site sponsors.

What you have stated are purely opinions. Posting about other products in a manufacturer's forum is the right people have, called "freedom of speech". Saying you can't post anything about any other product sold by that forum's sponsor is, in fact, monopolizing, as per the definition above. You are controlling what products are talked about/not talked about.



Secondly,

since Zaino is not one of DC sponsors I would not like someone pumping his line here..we have allot of paying sponsors that have products that are just as good if not better in most cases

would fall into the monopolizing category again. Taking the right of someone from posting about a certain product is taking away their say and controlling a business situation. The only emphasis on products will be on ones sold by sponsors. Explain how that is fair/just/ethical?

 

[joyriide1113]

i do agree that a lot of memebrs opinions here on DETAILCITY are biased to the manufacturers, distributers, that sponser this site. with the exception of few.

anytime a new product comes around worth mentioning that is not from a dedicated sponser, its literally pushed a side or simply given an alternative to a product thats carried by one of the sponsers.

i think the folks behind DC have done an AWESOME AND INCREDIBLE job choosing their sponsers and didnt just go with who would pay the price of sponsership, but by no means do i think they are the end all.

 

[Beemerboy]

defining the term pumping is the same as spamming IMO...you think that its fair for someone to promote a product here that is not sold by this site, taking busines away from the paying sponsors? I didn't say anything about not talking about them....I certainly have.

I've not seen anyone say don't talk about non-sponsor products here...but when you start making those suggestions on allot thread about those products that then becomes spamming.

 

[CharlesW]

What you have stated are purely opinions. Posting about other products in a manufacturer's forum is the right people have, called "freedom of speech". Saying you can't post anything about any other product sold by that forum's sponsor is, in fact, monopolizing, as per the definition above. You are controlling what products are talked about/not talked about.

Opinions? Absolutely.

The one thing that I do think is in extremely bad taste is to post information about a competitive product in a manufacturers forum. That seldom happens, but it has been done.

Posting about a competitors product in a manufacturers forum that he pays to have still seems in poor taste. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with it. People can post anything they want in the general forums, but showing a little respect in the forum the company is paying for doesn't seem that opinionated to me.

The immediate posting of a difficulty with a vendors order before you have even contacted the vendor about the problem also seems a little less than a classy move to me.
That includes all vendors, not just the site sponsors.

This too, is an opinion and while "freedom of speech" might allow it, common courtesy should keep it fom happening.

Charles

 

[G35stilez]

defining the term pumping is the same as spamming IMO...you think that its fair for someone to promote a product here that is not sold by this site, taking busines away from the paying sponsors? I didn't say anything about not talking about them....I certainly have.

I've not seen anyone say don't talk about non-sponsor products here...but when you start making those suggestions on allot thread about those products that then becomes spamming.

So, for instance, my recent review on Zaino Z10...


If I post an objective review (already did) and start posting that I used it on my car or customer's cars...Or maybe even suggesting it to a new member who is not sure of what leather conditioner to use...This is spamming?

 

[G35stilez]

Charles: Unfortunately, "common courtesy" and "respect" are two terms that have great variations in meaning and perception, and it is impossible to try to control that unless you say "Do not post any other brand names than the ones sold by this sponsor"...which, is monopolizing.

I'm missing the point here other than you think people are being impolite.

 

[Beemerboy]

you keep twisting my words...I didn't say you where spamming on your review...However if for every leather realated thread that comes up you suggest Zaino as the fix, then that's pumping another sites line...Using Zaino as the example I wonder how Sal would feel about someone posting on his forum about Poorboys products.....I think you know the answer to that.

 

[G35stilez]

1) Does Sal Zaino have a forum?
2) What if the product is actually *that* good? Not saying it is, but I am still working on direct comparisons vs. Poorboys, 4*, Lexol, Meguiar's, etc. If it proved to last longer, keep the look longer, and hold the attributes that *I* felt made it superior to others. I would post it in an objective manner about how I came to these results, followed by an *opinion* about why I think x is better than y.


Is this wrong?

 

[Focusedonsound]

Given that there are quite few threads/posts about product availability from other than the site sponsors, I don't really see how anyone can feel that DC practices "Market Monopolizing".

The one thing that I do think is in extremely bad taste is to post information about a competitive product in a manufacturer’s forum. That seldom happens, but it has been done.

The immediate posting of a difficulty with a vendors order before you have even contacted the vendor about the problem also seems a little less than a classy move to me.
That includes all vendors, not just the site sponsors.

Fire away, I'm ready. :boxing:

:gun_banda Charles

While in a perfect world we would all wish that there was absolutely no “Market Monopolizing” here at DC however I know this isn’t true …and I will leave it at that. If you know what I am referring to than that’s great.

As for the immediate posting of difficulty with vendors before contacting vendor’s!
Sometimes the best way to reach some of the vendors is through the forum!

Working for a company that does more mail order business than all of the DC sponsors combine. Problems with orders happen! It’s a fact of life! It’s actually come to be expected, and there is nothing wrong with this … As a matter of fact as a retailer we openly expect it. We have customer comments by Bizrate on our website … and we don’t have the choice of what Customers can and can’t see. We except the good with the bad … the bad comments make us work harder to please our client base as well as tell us what we need to improve upon, the good comments reassure us as to what we are doing right

We are a small close knit group of clients to the vendors of DC. Together we all probably total about 2-3% of their total bottom lines! (Don’t quote me on that but I don’t think it could be much more!) I have read these posts more as people trying to inform everyone most particularly the vendors that this is what is happening during shipping and maybe you should adjust how your packing your boxes etc.

And last but not least the opinions!
Opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion

So take it for what its worth. If you don’t like someone’s Opinion/review/product write up! Don’t listen to it! By no means is one persons Opinion/review/product write up the definitive answer as to how a product performs. Weather a person is paying for the product or not if you think the person is being biased in his/her reviews than that would be YOUR opinion I may think that Joe’s write up on Tire goo happens to be great and it makes me want to run out and buy it. While the next guy may think it’s a terrible write up and not. But in the end whatever the case may be. You make your own EDUCATED decision!

 

[CharlesW]

What you have stated are purely opinions. Posting about other products in a manufacturer's forum is the right people have, called "freedom of speech". Saying you can't post anything about any other product sold by that forum's sponsor is, in fact, monopolizing, as per the definition above. You are controlling what products are talked about/not talked about.

What I am referring to as sponsored forums would be the Auto Geek, Premium Auto Care, Specialty Motoring, Poorboy's forums.
Posting on Auto Geek's forum that CMA or even PAC is a better place to buy the product being discussed would be an example of what I consider to be in poor taste and disrespectful. Answering an inquiry about SSR1 with the recommendation of Optimum would be another. You wouldn't go into the "ABC" Acura dealers showroom and tell their customer they should go buy from "XYZ" Acura would you? If you see them at lunch, at the bar, on the street, by all means, give them your opnion. I feel the paying sponsors deserve that same respect in their own forums.

Charles

 

[jaybs02]

Many people have given reviews and opinions about products that are not sold by our sponsors, whether they purchased or were given a free sample to test should not be relevent.
The part that is important is that the indivdual is not being compensated, and it is their honest opinion, that is what seperates a reviewer from a spammer.

Sean and others have spoken about Pink Wax, QEW, and other products yet no one seemed to get upset, so why now, because it's Zaino, that doesn't make sense.

"J"

 

[CharlesW]

What I am referring to as sponsored forums would be the Auto Geek, Premium Auto Care, Specialty Motoring, Poorboy's forums.
Posting on Auto Geek's forum that CMA or even PAC is a better place to buy the product being discussed would be an example of what I consider to be in poor taste and disrespectful. Answering an inquiry about SSR1 with the recommendation of Optimum would be another. You wouldn't go into the "ABC" Acura dealers showroom and tell their customer they should go buy from "XYZ" Acura would you? If you see them at lunch, at the bar, on the street, by all means, give them your opnion. I feel the paying sponsors deserve that same respect in their own forums.

Charles

I should have added that sending a PM to the individual with your opinions would be more appropriate.

Charles

 

[TrueDetailer]

There are quite a few opinions here. Some i agree with, Some i don't. This is a place to SHARE Knowledge of detailing, Not a place to say whos product is better then the others, Or to say where you must buy them.

When i post, I'm going to talk about what i use which is automagic and products they carry. AutoMagic is not a sponser of this site so should it be considered SPAMMING? No, Being A sponser is not a guarantee that people will buy from you. And thats my opinion...

I'm not going to say much more, We don't need to let this thread get out of hand. I'd like to see what everyone has to say, Including the sponsers, before the powers that be get it deleted.

 

[JaredPointer]

I don't personally see a problem with discussing (or even suggesting) products that are not sold by the sponsors here. I like to buy (and try) a lot of things that you can get at the local stores & shops, and if I find one that works as well as a "boutique" product, then I will probably use and recommend the least expensive/most easily accessible to me product.

Maybe I am missing something with how this thread got started, but implying that the sponsors of DC's products are all that we should use, suggest, or buy is kind of narrow-minded. I understand that they pay a lot of money to keep the site going and all, but limiting the products that can be discussed kind of defeats the whole purpose of DC as an informational tool.

Like I said, maybe I missed the whole point of the thread, but that's just my view on the matter.

 

[Jngrbrdman]

<soapbox>

This doesn't have anything to do with the topic or content of this thread, but freedom of speech isn't a freedom you enjoy on a message board. This message board is not the United States of America. It is private property. It is practically a soverign nation when you really think about it. Posting here is a privlege and not a right (quoted from the forum rules). Besides, saying what you want is not free speech. It is more like anarchy. Saying whatever you feel like saying in my house will get you shown to the door. I make the rules in my house and your freedom of speech isn't something I recognize. Try and picket or protest me on my property and see what happens. Freedom of speech doesn't apply on private property.

Sorry for the hijack, but I can't stand it when people cite freedom of speech on message boards.

</soapbox>


Ok, more on topic now... I think it is very bad form to push product in a vendor forum unless it is product that is sold by the vendor. That isn't to say that someone with no financial interest in the company can't push Zaino on the other public forums, but how would it feel if you were a vendor of Zaino and were paying to have a sponsor forum and banners and everything else the sponsors here enjoy and then have someone hijack your threads with suggestions of other products to buy other than the ones you are talking about? I'm not against choices, but I am against people showing disrespect to sponsors by butting in on their right to advertise in their own forum. If you feel there are other products that work beyond what the vendors sell (and we all know there are more than one ways to skin a cat around here) then the best place to make those suggestions would not be in the vendor's forum. By all means tell me about great products that you feel match or exceed some of the products our vendors sell, but please don't disrespect them by posting the reviews in their forum.

 

[Beemerboy]

1) Does Sal Zaino have a forum?
2) What if the product is actually *that* good? Not saying it is, but I am still working on direct comparisons vs. Poorboys, 4*, Lexol, Meguiar's, etc. If it proved to last longer, keep the look longer, and hold the attributes that *I* felt made it superior to others. I would post it in an objective manner about how I came to these results, followed by an *opinion* about why I think x is better than y.


Is this wrong?

I use Sal Zaino as an example only to prove a point about promoting other sites products.

If someone asks about what's a good leather cleaner, and you can add to that threw your research then well be it....its when someone singles out a certain product line thats not related to this site on multiple threads this really becomes spamming.

Your opinion is as valuable as mine here and I respect it.

 

[CharlesW]

While in a perfect world we would all wish that there was absolutely no “Market Monopolizing” here at DC however I know this isn’t true …and I will leave it at that. If you know what I am referring to than that’s great.

I have no idea what you are referring to. PM me, would you?

As for the immediate posting of difficulty with vendors before contacting vendor’s!
Sometimes the best way to reach some of the vendors is through the forum!

Don't you feel posting a complaint about a vendor before the vendor is even aware of the problem is a little out of line? Yes, problems happen and all the vendors I have dealt with try to correct those problems if they are given the chance.

And last but not least the opinions!
Opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion

So take it for what its worth. If you don’t like someone’s Opinion/review/product write up! Don’t listen to it! By no means is one persons Opinion/review/product write up the definitive answer as to how a product performs. Weather a person is paying for the product or not if you think the person is being biased in his/her reviews than that would be YOUR opinion I may think that Joe’s write up on Tire goo happens to be great and it makes me want to run out and buy it. While the next guy may think it’s a terrible write up and not. But in the end whatever the case may be. You make your own EDUCATED decision!

Opinions on detailing products are as varied as movie reviews. One reviewer gives it 5 stars, another says save your money. In the case of detailing products, I think most companies do have good products and many of the bad reviews are because the reviewer didn't use the product properly or for its intended purpose.

Charles

 

[G35stilez]

<soapbox>

This doesn't have anything to do with the topic or content of this thread, but freedom of speech isn't a freedom you enjoy on a message board. This message board is not the United States of America. It is private property. It is practically a soverign nation when you really think about it. Posting here is a privlege and not a right (quoted from the forum rules). Besides, saying what you want is not free speech. It is more like anarchy. Saying whatever you feel like saying in my house will get you shown to the door. I make the rules in my house and your freedom of speech isn't something I recognize. Try and picket or protest me on my property and see what happens. Freedom of speech doesn't apply on private property.

Sorry for the hijack, but I can't stand it when people cite freedom of speech on message boards.

</soapbox>

Ok, I see what you are saying.


On a little off-topic rante as well (might as well let all the cats out of the bag):


Do you think it is right, if, for whatever reason, a moderator does not like something posted, for them to manipulate what was said by a member? I'm not talking about locking threads, I am talking about talking someones words out of context or posting something completely different than was said by the respective member? It has happened by the mod staff here before. I have talked to people, who many times write all of their posts (or longer ones) in word and save them. Then, all of a sudden, they aren't the same as posted.


I understand this is a private place, but is this "fair/just/ethical" in your opinion?

 

[Jngrbrdman]

I use Sal Zaino as an example only to prove a point about promoting other sites products.

If someone asks about what's a good leather cleaner, and you can add to that threw your research then well be it....its when someone singles out a certain product line thats not related to this site on multiple threads this really becomes spamming.

Your opinion is as valuable as mine here and I respect it.

^^ I don't know about that... I know that I've got my favorites that I like to suggest even though I'm not affiliated with the companies that make them. I sure wish I was on Wolfgang's payroll... That would be sweet. Still, I think it is a good product and I recomend it whenever I feel it would be a good choice of product for the situation. I also still recommend other products other than Wolfgang when they are more appropriate. I don't feel that recommending your favorite is spamming. Spam is when I am a Meguiar's distributor and I go everywhere telling everybody how great Meguiar's products are. If you are distributor of a product then you lose the perception of objectivity in the eyes of everybody who reads your posts. This is precicely why I don't have a store anymore. I didn't like that people assumed that I lost my objectivity simply because I was now a vendor. I choose to promote products that I enjoy without compensation simply because I truely am concerned that people use products that they will like.