M105, Flex, and damp pads . . . happy accident?

T

TortoiseAWD

New member
This past weekend I took on a pretty swirled-up red Audi A4. I'd forgotten that I had pads soaking, so on the morning of the detail, I finished cleaning up my pads and squeezed them dry as best I could, but of course, they still remained a bit damp.



After reading SuperBee's opinion regarding M105 and pad choice (that pad choice doesn't seem to affect the cut a great deal, but does affect the finish), I thought I'd start out with a polishing pad first. Oops, my polish pads were the ones that were still damp . . . oh, well, I figured, give it a try and see what happens.



On the first section I did, there was a bit too much water left in the pad, and it caused a bit of a mess. However, after the excess moisture was gone, the Flex/M105/damp pad combo starting working *very* well on the hard Audi paint. The extra moisture from the pad extended the working time of the M105 just long enough to keep it from flashing so quick that it's a pain to use, but still kept a relatively short working time compared to other compounds. Much less dust than my other M105 outings, too (oh, there was still a lot of dust, just not the normal metric arseload that I'd gotten with M105 before).



FWIW, I was using white Buff-n-Shine polishing pads (picked up locally . . . can't find an LC pad OTC in Omaha anywhere). The pads had been squeezed dry, then placed inside a waffle-weave and compressed to get more water out. That should give you some idea of how damp the pads were. Also, I was only using about four pea-sized dabs of M105 per 2 x 2 section.



Anyway, the Audi turned out pretty good (beautiful blood red color). I followed the M105 with Sonus Swirlbuster, EZ Creme Glaze, and Werkstatt . . . turned out to be an excellent combo on that color of red.



Just another data point for people trying M105 with DA or Flex . . . Give a damp pad a try; I hope it works as well for you as it did for me.



Tort
 
So evern on hard Audi paint with a DA and a gentle pad, M105 was able to do some substantial correction... *very* good to hear. How was the finish after the 105? Did the Sonus have it's work cut out for it, batting clean-up?



I was spritzing my pad with Fk1 425 prior to using M105, which helped alot.. Next time I think I'll try a damp pad.. cheaper. :)
 
SuperBee364 said:
So evern on hard Audi paint with a DA and a gentle pad, M105 was able to do some substantial correction... *very* good to hear. How was the finish after the 105? Did the Sonus have it's work cut out for it, batting clean-up?
Click to expand...
As far as I could tell with the halogens, the finish was pretty darn good after M105. The Sonus did more to up the gloss and deepen the color than removing any *obvious* haze (although I'm sure there was some hazing going on at the "its-there-but-I-can't-see-it-with-my-astigmatism" level). The second step definitely wasn't a fight.



Tort
 
TortoiseAWD said:
This past weekend I took on a pretty swirled-up red Audi A4. I'd forgotten that I had pads soaking, so on the morning of the detail, I finished cleaning up my pads and squeezed them dry as best I could, but of course, they still remained a bit damp.



After reading SuperBee's opinion regarding M105 and pad choice (that pad choice doesn't seem to affect the cut a great deal, but does affect the finish), I thought I'd start out with a polishing pad first. Oops, my polish pads were the ones that were still damp . . . oh, well, I figured, give it a try and see what happens.



On the first section I did, there was a bit too much water left in the pad, and it caused a bit of a mess. However, after the excess moisture was gone, the Flex/M105/damp pad combo starting working *very* well on the hard Audi paint. The extra moisture from the pad extended the working time of the M105 just long enough to keep it from flashing so quick that it's a pain to use, but still kept a relatively short working time compared to other compounds. Much less dust than my other M105 outings, too (oh, there was still a lot of dust, just not the normal metric arseload that I'd gotten with M105 before).



FWIW, I was using white Buff-n-Shine polishing pads (picked up locally . . . can't find an LC pad OTC in Omaha anywhere). The pads had been squeezed dry, then placed inside a waffle-weave and compressed to get more water out. That should give you some idea of how damp the pads were. Also, I was only using about four pea-sized dabs of M105 per 2 x 2 section.



Anyway, the Audi turned out pretty good (beautiful blood red color). I followed the M105 with Sonus Swirlbuster, EZ Creme Glaze, and Werkstatt . . . turned out to be an excellent combo on that color of red.



Just another data point for people trying M105 with DA or Flex . . . Give a damp pad a try; I hope it works as well for you as it did for me.



Tort
Click to expand...



:showpics



Just kidding Tort... thanks for your input.
 
TortoiseAWD said:
As far as I could tell with the halogens, the finish was pretty darn good after M105. The Sonus did more to up the gloss and deepen the color than removing any *obvious* haze (although I'm sure there was some hazing going on at the "its-there-but-I-can't-see-it-with-my-astigmatism" level). The second step definitely wasn't a fight.



Tort
Click to expand...



Excellent.. this kinda stuff has me excited to use my PC for correction again. Thanks, Tort!
 
When 105 flashes you could mist a bit of water in the paint and continue working it, it works for me.
 
Denzil said:
:showpics



Just kidding Tort... thanks for your input.
Click to expand...
Forgot my camera. :(



I wish I had been able to take a at least a couple of before/after shots of a section. This was my first Audi, and I was concerned after hearing so many stories about the hard clear, but it went pretty well.



Tort
 
Firstly, I hope I don't derail your thread too much Tort but I felt I must put my input as well to benefit everyone else, I think.



So yesterday (I'm writing this at 2 AM mind you) I worked on my brother's red Nissan 240SX which isn't in the greatest condition (some clearcoat failure, dings, chipping paint, etc.) and I finally tested out M105, SIP, UFSE, and OPS. Here's what I thought of them.



Note: The entire day consisted of sun and overcast and some times I'd have full sunlight and other times I'd have clouded sunlight. The garage was full of stuff at the time.





M105

Man, this stuff is difficult to learn. It also doesn't help that the paint was kind of hot (Man I have to purchase an EZ-UP). I don't know, it just seems like it's a never-ending battle to get it to work correctly. Surely it may have been easier if I had more favorable overall conditions but I didn't have that at that point in time.



I tried a few things that I've read over the past couple months. I tried distributing my 4 dots that I applied to the LC PFW to the paint in 2x2 areas and hit it immediately at speed 2 on my Metabo (1100 RPM) only to have it flash over and dry within mere seconds (I primed the pad every time with Meg's Quik Detailer). I also tried it after washing my LC PFW in the UPW and achieved slightly longer work-in times.



Other times I would apply my 4 dots to the PFW and go straight to 1000 RPM or 700 RPM and polish away. Same end result. I guess I should try picking it up from the paint some more because the first time I did it, I did not like it all. I also didn't bother with my 75/25 M105/OC mixture as I really wanted to tame the beast that is M105. In the end, I got fed up with M105 for the day and decided to give SIP a shot. :2thumbs:



SIP

Wow, this stuff is amazing! It's much easier to work with than M105 and follows the traditional polishing method that most of us are used to. It cuts VERY well and can leave paint near-LSP ready. I was relieved to find out that I achieved better results than my experience with M105. I'm sure once I fully perfect my technique with M105, I'll appreciate it more than SIP. Other than that, I would highly recommend this polish to anyone. As is common with PB's polishes, it does tend to dust quite a bit but considering yesterday's tough experience with M105, I don't mind one bit.



UFSE

Again, another great product. It finishes so well and finishes wet (it seems?). I'm really bought on this product and all its hype. Not really much else I can say about it. I tried to finish the 240SX's hood down after compound with M105 and it took out the holograms I induced without a problem at all. It truly is a great product.



OPS

Is there a product yet made by Optimum that isn't great? I've actually had this bottle of OPS for quite some time and it wasn't until yesterday that I finally got to try it out. It finishes out really well too, similar to UFSE, IMO. I'm thinking that when I find time to actually detail my car (I have a few clients lined up :p), I am thinking of one-stepping my Integ with this stuff since it has pretty soft paint. This is another product I need purchase more of.





Overall, it was a great learning experience. Using M105 to begin the day was pretty discouraging but I'm sure it'll pay off soon once I get the hang of it. Later today I'm going to finish off my brother's car using SIP and OPS since that seemed to work pretty well for me.



Guess I'll have to dig up all the M105 threads and reread them again. :LOLOL



Oh and I don't have pictures... quite the hypocrite I am, LoL. I do apologize though, I was in the "Polish Only" mode at the time. I was too focused on learning M105 and my other newly acquired polishes. I did manage to take a few before pictures and I'll be sure to take many afters. If they're good enough, I might put them up in a C&B thread.
 
Denzil, after working with 105 quite a bit more, it's great stuff. Yup, it is very hard to learn, but it's worth taking the time to do so, cause it's gonna save you alot of time down the road. I now *like* it's extremely short working time, and wouldn't do anything (including trying to wet down and continue to use already applied polish or cut with another polish) to change it.
 
I'll confess that I'm not a polishing pro, but aren't you always supposed to 'condition' the pad with QD or water prior to polishing???
 
I just got done with a boat that I used 105 on with a white LC and damn it worked far faster and better than 3M super compound. I also use 105 and a purple foamed wool to cut down my wet sanding marks in short order. I bought another bottle of this stuff, it saves tons of time.



I'll post pics of the boat in the near future in the marine click and brag.
 
abbeysdad said:
I'll confess that I'm not a polishing pro, but aren't you always supposed to 'condition' the pad with QD or water prior to polishing???
Click to expand...



That is a very common piece of advice, but one that depends alot on what polish/pad you're using. For example, I don't ever pre-spritz the pad if I'm using UF. That polish starts wet, is wet while polishing, and finishes *wet*. It's so wet it's hard to keep from slinging. You *definitely* don't want any added pad moisture when you're using UF.



PO106FF and PO85RD are, for lack of a better term, "precision lubed". And they are also parafin based lubes. Pre-spritzing the pad with these polishes is like mixing water and oil. You'll degrade the lubrication qualities of these polishes. Considering the high concentration of abrasives (they are both ceramiclear rated polishes), doing anything to interfere with the intended lubrication is not good. I always use a dry pad with these two polishes, and make sure the polish gets evenly distributed all over the pad to properly lube it. Without additional spritzing, they break down and finish wonderfully well.



SIP, OTOH, really does benefit from a bit of a spritz on the pad. Without it, I can't get the necessary working time to get it broken down all the way. Even with the spritz it can be a challenge. Again, spreading the polish all over the pad helps alot.



M105 *demands* a pre-spritz on the pad. Without it, you'lll be looking at changing your pad for every application of 105.
 
I guess my thinking was that a pad should always be moistened and wrung out so as not to initially suck moisture out of the polish. After pad saturation, it no longer matters...
 
Hmm, I'm going to use the UPW after application or two to see if that helps anyway. Also might actually think of investing in a pad spur, 3.5" LC PFW pads (as the 6.5" LC PFW pads are amazing), and the appropriate backing plate for it.
 
Denzil said:
Firstly, I hope I don't derail your thread too much Tort but I felt I must put my input as well to benefit everyone else, I think.



So yesterday (I'm writing this at 2 AM mind you) I worked on my brother's red Nissan 240SX which isn't in the greatest condition (some clearcoat failure, dings, chipping paint, etc.) and I finally tested out M105, SIP, UFSE, and OPS. Here's what I thought of them.



Note: The entire day consisted of sun and overcast and some times I'd have full sunlight and other times I'd have clouded sunlight. The garage was full of stuff at the time.





M105

Man, this stuff is difficult to learn. It also doesn't help that the paint was kind of hot (Man I have to purchase an EZ-UP). I don't know, it just seems like it's a never-ending battle to get it to work correctly. Surely it may have been easier if I had more favorable overall conditions but I didn't have that at that point in time.



I tried a few things that I've read over the past couple months. I tried distributing my 4 dots that I applied to the LC PFW to the paint in 2x2 areas and hit it immediately at speed 2 on my Metabo (1100 RPM) only to have it flash over and dry within mere seconds (I primed the pad every time with Meg's Quik Detailer). I also tried it after washing my LC PFW in the UPW and achieved slightly longer work-in times.



Other times I would apply my 4 dots to the PFW and go straight to 1000 RPM or 700 RPM and polish away. Same end result. I guess I should try picking it up from the paint some more because the first time I did it, I did not like it all. I also didn't bother with my 75/25 M105/OC mixture as I really wanted to tame the beast that is M105. In the end, I got fed up with M105 for the day and decided to give SIP a shot. :2thumbs:



SIP

Wow, this stuff is amazing! It's much easier to work with than M105 and follows the traditional polishing method that most of us are used to. It cuts VERY well and can leave paint near-LSP ready. I was relieved to find out that I achieved better results than my experience with M105. I'm sure once I fully perfect my technique with M105, I'll appreciate it more than SIP. Other than that, I would highly recommend this polish to anyone. As is common with PB's polishes, it does tend to dust quite a bit but considering yesterday's tough experience with M105, I don't mind one bit.



UFSE

Again, another great product. It finishes so well and finishes wet (it seems?). I'm really bought on this product and all its hype. Not really much else I can say about it. I tried to finish the 240SX's hood down after compound with M105 and it took out the holograms I induced without a problem at all. It truly is a great product.



OPS

Is there a product yet made by Optimum that isn't great? I've actually had this bottle of OPS for quite some time and it wasn't until yesterday that I finally got to try it out. It finishes out really well too, similar to UFSE, IMO. I'm thinking that when I find time to actually detail my car (I have a few clients lined up :p), I am thinking of one-stepping my Integ with this stuff since it has pretty soft paint. This is another product I need purchase more of.





Overall, it was a great learning experience. Using M105 to begin the day was pretty discouraging but I'm sure it'll pay off soon once I get the hang of it. Later today I'm going to finish off my brother's car using SIP and OPS since that seemed to work pretty well for me.



Guess I'll have to dig up all the M105 threads and reread them again. :LOLOL
Click to expand...



I've had very similar experience as you regarding both M105 and SIP. The M105 has a big learning curve, that's for sure. SIP not so much, as it seems very easy to get great results from it.



What is "UFSE"? :nixweiss
 
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