Levels of 'Professional' detailing

[Todd@RUPES]

^^^^ agreed....if someone wanted to pay me 700+ for a detail top to bottom, I could produce some outstanding results...but, no one I have met wants to pay that, so I dont have those click and brags...and I am not talking a trashed inside and out car, but rather the low mileage only needing a two step to clear up, but wanting a simple 4 step to bring out the most shine car owners...those are the ones I would love to detail, not the ones REALLY needing it...but ill do both no problem

You are in Southern Califorina, which is a hot bed of exotic cars and people with the money to pay you to do the job correctly. So you are displaced in the correct area. However, you have to be willing to market (and know how to ) that particular segment, and be unwillingly to do lesser work. This is limites your potential client list do a very small amount, so it is an initial sacrafice to attain clients who will pay you for your expertise. There is also a lot of behind the scenes work (marketing, PR, etc) that will keep you up until 2:30 AM, when working for a certain cliental.

 

[SpoiledMan]

It only makes sense that who ever has more experience doing certain types of work is going to better (if they are passionate and willing to learn each and everytime) then somebody who doesn't, even if their skill sets are the same. I can tell you honestly I am better at the "1000 dollar 2 day details" now then I was 3 months ago because my experience doing these types of details is so much greater than it was 3 months ago, and hopefully 3 months from now it will be even greater, and I will do an even better job.



I have always said that I have been very lucky to have these clients that allow me to do this, but at some point experience in the market does generate a better product than somebody who doesn't have the experience. By the same token, I wouldn't be as profiecent at a 100 dollar, limited detail as somebody who does this type of work every day as well.

Makes perfect sense Todd.

 

[baseballlover1]

I respectfully disagree. A) I do more than high end exotics (though they do comprise 75-85 percent of the work I do, depending on how you define "high end exotic". IMO, your comparison is like saying that if I had enough time to play basketball, I would be as good as Michael Jordan was...



I am not trying to compare myself to Michael Jordan, but only saying that the when somebody has a lot of experience doing these type of details, they tend to be better at this type of work because of the share repetition of the work. That is, lets say one person has done 100s of these "perfection details" it would only make sense that they would be better at it and likely produce better results then somebody who has done zero of them but has it down in "therory".



It only makes sense that who ever has more experience doing certain types of work is going to better (if they are passionate and willing to learn each and everytime) then somebody who doesn't, even if their skill sets are the same. I can tell you honestly I am better at the "1000 dollar 2 day details" now then I was 3 months ago because my experience doing these types of details is so much greater than it was 3 months ago, and hopefully 3 months from now it will be even greater, and I will do an even better job.



I have always said that I have been very lucky to have these clients that allow me to do this, but at some point experience in the market does generate a better product than somebody who doesn't have the experience. By the same token, I wouldn't be as profiecent at a 100 dollar, limited detail as somebody who does this type of work every day as well.

I AGREE!



I think that there is a difference between basketball and detailing however i do agree with you. I think that there is a curve in knowledge of detailing (right now im too tired to think if it curves down or up, but i think down). I think given 21 years of playing basketball 5 hours a day or more i could be close to as good as Jordan. I however choose to spend my time challenging myself and learning more about detailing so 1 day i will be better then you (todd) :nana: lol... i dont think that will happen because you seem like 1 of those guys who scored perfect on his SATs and you putting in 1 hour of hard work and trying to perfect the art of detailing is like me putting in 5.



This might be making no sense at all written because i am soo tired but it is making sense in my head lol

 

[Todd@RUPES]

I AGREE!



I think that there is a difference between basketball and detailing however i do agree with you. I think that there is a curve in knowledge of detailing (right now im too tired to think if it curves down or up, but i think down). I think given 21 years of playing basketball 5 hours a day or more i could be close to as good as Jordan. I however choose to spend my time challenging myself and learning more about detailing so 1 day i will be better then you (todd) :nana: lol... i dont think that will happen because you seem like 1 of those guys who scored perfect on his SATs and you putting in 1 hour of hard work and trying to perfect the art of detailing is like me putting in 5.



This might be making no sense at all written because i am soo tired but it is making sense in my head lol

Daniel, you are 100 percent correct (isn't it past your bed time?) There is a HUGE difference between basketball and detailing, in that having the drive to be great is one thing, but obviously basketball (or any professional athletic competition) requires an amazing and rare level of physical talents that many people simply do not have.



However, Michael Jordan did not come into the league as the best player. It took several years for him to begin to earn his status, despite his physical attributes. To have the 1 in 10,000,000 million genetics that Michael Jordan had is one thing, but to have the drive and determination to push yourself to the limit and be hungry to learn is another. How many gifted athletes have we seen in college get to the big leagues (regardless of the sport) and be no more than medicore? Tons, right? A lot of talented people lack work ethic and drive because they have simply never had to have the drive needed to excel. Then you have people like Michael Jordan, despite his talent, who never stopped growing and is famous for his work ethic. First one in the gym, last to leave, and at the time he was already considered the best.



Regarding my SAT's, I didn't study and did score high, lol. However, I still cannot spell lol.



I'm not saying I am the best detailer on this site (because the minute I believe I am even close to the best is when I will be "stuck") and honestly I am not, there are so many people on here that are so knowledge that it is scary. However, I am lucky (mixed with a lot of behind the scenes HARD work) to have the clients I do, but I have made the most of my opportunity. It didn't fall on my lap, that is for sure.



As far as being better than me (however that is judged) Dainel, you might already be.

 

[dsms]

Its interesting that you guys compared MJ to a detailer. I do 100% agree with what you said about building expierence and being better than you were 3 months ago because I believe that it will come naturally and I like that about detailing, its a hobby/job that you can constantly improve yourself on. Basketball is different, there are the young superstars who get drafted out of high school and go and play in the NBA, yea there good but it takes a little while for them to break out of their shell and get some good game expierence before they reach their "Prime". People always compare athletes and say stuff like "Jordan in his prime was the greatest athlete in the world, or "Ali in his prime could beat any boxer today" Its inevitable for an athlete to reach their prime and stay at that level for a long time. But thats the thing with ball players or any athlete, they pretty much all have a "Prime" in their career and once they reach that level its only a matter of time before they lose some of their great talent, maybe its speed or accuracy. A deatiler however can continue to improve for a long time, and you will surley get better with each detail you do because you build expierence and skill. If you have been doing this for 15years I bet you have seen all types of car with all types of problems and you know that you are able to correct paint better and faster than you did 10 details ago and will continue to show imporvment 10 details later. There really is no prime in a detailers career becuase there is always the availability of improvment, even if you are already considered the best you can still go up from there. Just my $0.02



PS- When I was 6 years old I saw Jordan play the NJ Nets and I was sitting courtside. Jordan got the ball and brought it up the court and came to a defender(forgot who) anyway he was dribbling the ball in one place and looked the guy straight in the eye and told him move he was gonna do to him...and then he went and did it, it was the most amaing thing I have seen in any game. He told him exactly what he was gonna do to him which was something like a pump fake followed by a crossover and a drive to the basket, and then MJ did it.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Its interesting that you guys compared MJ to a detailer. I do 100% agree with what you said about building expierence and being better than you were 3 months ago because I believe that it will come naturally and I like that about detailing, its a hobby/job that you can constantly improve yourself on. Basketball is different, there are the young superstars who get drafted out of high school and go and play in the NBA, yea there good but it takes a little while for them to break out of their shell and get some good game expierence before they reach their "Prime". People always compare athletes and say stuff like "Jordan in his prime was the greatest athlete in the world, or "Ali in his prime could beat any boxer today" Its inevitable for an athlete to reach their prime and stay at that level for a long time. But thats the thing with ball players or any athlete, they pretty much all have a "Prime" in their career and once they reach that level its only a matter of time before they lose some of their great talent, maybe its speed or accuracy. A deatiler however can continue to improve for a long time, and you will surley get better with each detail you do because you build expierence and skill. If you have been doing this for 15years I bet you have seen all types of car with all types of problems and you know that you are able to correct paint better and faster than you did 10 details ago and will continue to show imporvment 10 details later. There really is no prime in a detailers career becuase there is always the availability of improvment, even if you are already considered the best you can still go up from there. Just my $0.02



PS- When I was 6 years old I saw Jordan play the NJ Nets and I was sitting courtside. Jordan got the ball and brought it up the court and came to a defender(forgot who) anyway he was dribbling the ball in one place and looked the guy straight in the eye and told him move he was gonna do to him...and then he went and did it, it was the most amaing thing I have seen in any game. He told him exactly what he was gonna do to him which was something like a pump fake followed by a crossover and a drive to the basket, and then MJ did it.

You make great points, an honestly, my analogy was thought of on 3 hours of sleep, which is why I tried to follow up on my point. However, I have met (infact most of the detailers I have met) detailers with 15 years experience, but most have 3 months experience x 60. Autopians and the like are a rare breed, most "detailers" are compound and glaze guys.

 

[todd@bsaw]

It only makes sense that who ever has more experience doing certain types of work is going to better (if they are passionate and willing to learn each and everytime) then somebody who doesn't, even if their skill sets are the same. I can tell you honestly I am better at the "1000 dollar 2 day details" now then I was 3 months ago because my experience doing these types of details is so much greater than it was 3 months ago, and hopefully 3 months from now it will be even greater, and I will do an even better job.



I have always said that I have been very lucky to have these clients that allow me to do this, but at some point experience in the market does generate a better product than somebody who doesn't have the experience. By the same token, I wouldn't be as profiecent at a 100 dollar, limited detail as somebody who does this type of work every day as well.

Thanks for respectfully disagreeing, because this makes perfect sense.

:up

 

[baseballlover1]

Daniel, you are 100 percent correct (isn't it past your bed time?)



Regarding my SAT's, I didn't study and did score high, lol. However, I still cannot spell lol.





As far as being better than me (however that is judged) Dainel, you might already be.

I dont really have a bedtime (except on school nights which is really just a recommendation). My parents think if i have to function on a few hours sleep its not the worst thing that could happen. And i got home from babysitting some kids pretty late last night.



And how did i know you would score high on your SATS without trying. just a lucky guess. And ile bet you are 1 of those guys who is naturally smart and got through high school with A's B's and C's without trying at all. We basically compare all the smart kids at my school to me to prove them not (actually) smart, just book smart. If they could go through a trimester with studying just as much as i do (about no joke probably 20 minutes a subject for the whole trimester) would they get A's B's and C's like me?... my guess is you are the exact same then you found something you loved (detailing) and put your whole heart into it and then you became one of the best detailers out there (not just on autopia).



... The minute i think im better then you is the minute i need to get my head checked out!

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Thanks for respectfully disagreeing, because this makes perfect sense.

:up

The internet can be fun when don't call each other names?!



I wouldn't say I disagree with you as much as have a different view point.

 

[Stratous]

I have to appologize to begin for being so late, but skimming over this thread I really wanted to express what I have done.



My detailing business is very fresh and isn't even complete business yet, but I have been doing some work on weekends for over a year and what I have started has, so far, worked very well for customers.



I have a full line of products to detail...Rotory, DA, Extractor, Powerwasher, full product lines, and even the MiST Ventilation Cleaning unit on order (get it next week).

I've set my prices up as hourly! I list all the steps I can go through with an hourly rating, and let the customer pick and choose what they want done.

I've set at $25 per hour. I found that fare, because if the customer only wants a handful of steps done around the car it'll run them 3-5 hours ($75-$125), and if the customer wants the whole works done it can run 10-12 hours or more.

And then I advertise specialties in there like:

Interior Carpet Shampoo - 2hrs *Removal of seats for cleaning included!!

Wheel Polish/Wax - 1hr *Removal of wheels for cleaning inlcuded!!



I feel the hourly rates work better than selling "packages". Package deals force the customer to get things done that they may not want to pay for. If the customer doesn't want the wheels polished and waxed, just cleaned then they can knock that off and save an hour or $25, and I include a quick cleaning with the exterior wash.

I'm working on a brochure that would help you guys understand, but like I said I'm only beginning, so it's not all determined yet.

I'de also like to add that I worked 2 years at a car wash (not quality exactly, but learned efficiency), I've put in over 3 years now at a TOP name body shop where I am certified in nearly everything paint related. I've surfed Autopia for years now, and deffinately consider myself professional!!



Again, sorry for being late. Hopefully I brought ideas to some, or that someone could comment of my ways.

 

[Scottwax]

You are going to find it tough every 3 months when you file your estimated taxes if you only make $25 an hour.

 

[mrfjsw294]

What a great thread! I really enjoyed reading this. I can relate to alot of other members here in saying that we all play our market. I can only dream of someday being able to detail on a level like Todd and some of the other true enthusiasts here. Unfortunately that day is a LONG time from now. My area does not have a calling for details like that. People in this area just plain dont care about their cars. Granted there are a few (mainly big execs around the city that drive $60K+ vehicles) that do care. But the other 90% of the market here is tough. I have people trying to beat me up on a $50 wash/interior/spray wax...



Having said that, im not nearly as knowledgeable in correction as most on this forum. I wish my market was different, because those are the details that I want to do. Once I get more experienced in correction and can do it in a timely fashion, perhaps I will start to push my correction services more. But for now, I have play the market that is given to me.

 

[Stratous]

You are going to find it tough every 3 months when you file your estimated taxes if you only make $25 an hour.

I don't quite get what you mean.

My tax lady said to just keep track of the bottom line, and when I start making a decent income I'll start making monthly tax payments. I'm not an LLC or any type of company, I'm a Sole Proprietor(sp?). As far as I understand it, it's listed as a 'hobby with an income'.

And "only" $25/hr? Broken down that $52k a year working 40 hour weeks :work: . I don't know what expenses are like in Texas, but thats not a bad income her in MN, especialy me being only 21 years old.

Besides, it's working commision. Say I quote and charge someone 4 hours for paint correction, and I get it done in 3 hours. Technicaly I made $33.33 an hour, but it's based on a $25/hr commission...It's exactly how the body shop I work for operates, except far cheeper. The goal for the technitions at my shop is 200%, meaning a charged 80 hours in a 40 work week. This is the way I've learned in my time at the body shop. The way I've figured I could complete 12-15 charged hours in an 8-10 hour work day. Thats not 200%, but I think it would be a healthy income. At 150% work rate that comes down to around $75000 before taxes. I don't know about you guys...but I'de be happy with that.



Unfortunately I don't see detailing becoming a true full time career. I've been taught a lot at the body shop, and there are advancement opportunities in the near future, and I will be going to school in August for Cabinet Making and Home Remodeling.

I'm kind of stretching across the board, but I'm still young and don't have a mortgage to worry about yet. Right now detailing is proving to be a great source of side income to pay for my Daytona. The Daytona is in the works for a show quality body and a 500hp 8valve 4 cylinder :grinno: !



Either way I'm interested in what you have to say Scott.