Levels of 'Professional' detailing

jsatek said:
Most forums are filled with the technicians that think they are smarter than the managers, the entrepreneurs are few and far between.



Zen and the art of motorcycle repair?
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Ain't that the truth! You have to be both a manager and a technician to survive long term in this business.
 
AP2TUDE said:
Amateurs can pound away with a DA long enough to get rid of defects, they manage to use what polishes are at their disposal or what they bought based on the raves of others on the forum; but their simple use doesn't equate to understanding. What makes Megs #83 different than Menzerna 106ff? They both have similar cut, similar workability, but their chemical composition and structure make them work very differently in differing conditions and with different paint and clear types. Pros have to know these things, amateurs don't.
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I think this is one of the best points brought up so far. :think2



I worked for one detail shop that was a member of the (now defunct) Professional Detailing Association and International Carwash Association. I considered the owner and every employee as a [weak] amateur in the process of detailing. Their detailer used silicone fillers on everything and hesitated to use the rotary because he was afraid of wrecking something (and never waxed the roof of SUVs, but that's another story). The owner didn't realize how any of their chemicals worked, or even what they were comprised of, and how little they corrected. They spent $50 per month on aerosol cleaners because it "foamed" and smelled "orange".



One of my biggest gripes was their Hand Wax package. In today's detail business, IMHO, there is no reason to do a hand wax if it can be done by machine faster with better coverage and less product usage.



I changed the things that I, as a professional, saw could be done better economically. I improved and quickened their process, changed their product line-up to better suit the business model at a much cheaper cost, and educated the owner, employees, and customers about the advantages of proper detailing.



In turn, they told me they weren't going to pay me as much as they promised because I wasn't turning out concourse level work for a $150 detail. They expected every vehicle I completed to be perfect. I wanted them to quote higher prices on vehicles that warranted more time to complete. We butted heads on these issues for 3 months until I finally left.

:tribe:



I would rather be a professional putting out professional results.

I'm glad this thread is getting some very good discussion. Let's keep it up!
 
todd@bsaw said:
I worked for one detail shop that was a member of the (now defunct) Professional Detailing Association and International Carwash Association.
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I was a member of the PDA back in the mid 90s. When they more than doubled the yearly fee, I quit. Basically, all I ever got from being a member is a news letter every 3 months telling me about detailing processes I already knew and those in the business should also already know and I was on the mailing list of several bulk detailing product manufacturers. Oh yeah, I got a sticker too.
 
Scottwax said:
I was a member of the PDA back in the mid 90s. When they more than doubled the yearly fee, I quit. Basically, all I ever got from being a member is a news letter every 3 months telling me about detailing processes I already knew and those in the business should also already know and I was on the mailing list of several bulk detailing product manufacturers. Oh yeah, I got a sticker too.
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Scott, I feel your pain. But, keep an eye on NAPDR activities. I'm pretty sure you'll begin to see an organization worth the cost. The recent MTE was very worthwhile, and NAPDR was a major factor. I'm already a believer...



Regarding this thread, yes, know thy customer. Some folks just want a shiny car.

Took us awhile to understand that.



Jim
 
mshu7 said:
The E-Myth Re-visited! I'm listening to it on CD right now.



By the way, great thread!
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Mike wins! I picked up the book last year after a recommendation from a couple in this forum. Great read.
 
Paint correction is one of the lowest priorities of my customers.



Interiors, by far, are the highest priority and the most common source of compliments and criticisms. We clean all buttons, switches, pedals, door pulls, map pockets, seat rails, bolts, panels, cupholders...everything that can be accessed without dismanteling the interior of the car.



We spend double the time cleaning the interior of the car than we do on the exterior. Sure, we get customers who demand extra work on their paint finish, and it's my job to detect this when I receive their car and service/sell them accordingly. But they are a minority.



I think this focus on interiors is what keeps most full time shops running. The hobbyist or the high line specialist can focus on paint correction, but it's very hard to keep full time work serving just that market.
 
In light of recent developements in the automotive reconditioning business, Im going to make a new detail trailer to sell as a franchise.



Ill even finance it 100% and give you some start up capital.



The trailer will contain:

1 Daimer Vapor cleaner

1 Daimer Vacuum

1 Heated pressure washer

1 Flex orbital and pads

300 Gallon water tank

Only Chemical Guys shampoo, soap, 1 step heavy filler/glaze/sealant, and a few dressings.



And dont forget all the leads you can get out of the Yellow Book for your area code. This ultra valuable marketing launch package is worth tem times what you will pay. So call me today.



Send for a complete color brochure and DVD! If you dont have a DVD player, dont worry, I'll send you one free of charge.



:Paypal:
 
jsatek said:
In light of recent developements in the automotive reconditioning business, Im going to make a new detail trailer to sell as a franchise.



Ill even finance it 100% and give you some start up capital.



The trailer will contain:

1 Daimer Vapor cleaner

1 Daimer Vacuum

1 Heated pressure washer

1 Flex orbital and pads

300 Gallon water tank

Only Chemical Guys shampoo, soap, 1 step heavy filler/glaze/sealant, and a few dressings.



And dont forget all the leads you can get out of the Yellow Book for your area code. This ultra valuable marketing launch package is worth tem times what you will pay. So call me today.



Send for a complete color brochure and DVD! If you dont have a DVD player, dont worry, I'll send you one free of charge.



:Paypal:
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Not a Bad Idea...you will get the haters though that say its not worth it, blah blah blah!

I would change the 300 Gallon Tank to a 200...saves you money when building and people don't realize 200 gallons is ALOT of water!

You need to do alot of planning for that one, but it could take off! Goodluck~
 
jsatek said:
I use the Makita at speed 4-5 with an Edge Wave 2000 pad. I use wool on beasts, I do not like doing deep correction with foam pads. I break the hood into eighths and use polish/compoung sparingly. I check the pad / polish combo before getting rolling. Once I have the formula, I launch. I do an IPA wipedown ot remove any suspension / carrying agents left behind upon completion of a panel to verify what I have done. Then its on to step 2, polishing, same process.



Waiting for polish to break down is a way of doing things to learn how to use the material and equipment. But learn to use the abrasive to your satisfaction. Learn to look through the polish and see the surface get corrected as you go. Sometimes the polish may not be "broken down" by some definition, but the surface will be completely corrected. Dont stand on ceremony, just correct the paint.



It's like wet sanding, once you know what you are doing, you can see the degree of correction you have done through the water. Squeegeeing the surface just gives further visual verification that you are correct. You can keep your hand on the paper and continue to remove material until the desired finish is achieved. Time saver. When learning how to do it, you sand a little, wipe it dry, examine, sand a little more, wipe it dry, examine. Worry, think about it, then maybe compound to see if it comes up, then sand again. 50% of the time it should have been sanded more at the start, people are just cautious when they start.
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Yoy are a 100% correcto!!!!!!!!! Thats what I have been noticeing on this site. A lot of caution, and to many steps are taken. This is do to inexperience, and not useing the proper tools or equipment, hint;(paint gauge,temp gauge,sunlight(which is the correct way to look at paint) magnified Illuminated Linen Tester. Your right I"am excellent in wet sanding if you know you know; my choice of weapon has been and always will be a Milwaukee( and can hold, one handed) with wool pad for compounding and polishing. Experience and knowlegde Prevails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I have never, never,never burned paint on single-stage,two or three. whether Ferrari

or DB9 volante. Peace
 
jsatek said:
I use the Makita at speed 4-5 with an Edge Wave 2000 pad. I use wool on beasts, I do not like doing deep correction with foam pads. I break the hood into eighths and use polish/compoung sparingly. I check the pad / polish combo before getting rolling. Once I have the formula, I launch. I do an IPA wipedown ot remove any suspension / carrying agents left behind upon completion of a panel to verify what I have done. Then its on to step 2, polishing, same process.



Waiting for polish to break down is a way of doing things to learn how to use the material and equipment. But learn to use the abrasive to your satisfaction. Learn to look through the polish and see the surface get corrected as you go. Sometimes the polish may not be "broken down" by some definition, but the surface will be completely corrected. Dont stand on ceremony, just correct the paint.



It's like wet sanding, once you know what you are doing, you can see the degree of correction you have done through the water. Squeegeeing the surface just gives further visual verification that you are correct. You can keep your hand on the paper and continue to remove material until the desired finish is achieved. Time saver. When learning how to do it, you sand a little, wipe it dry, examine, sand a little more, wipe it dry, examine. Worry, think about it, then maybe compound to see if it comes up, then sand again. 50% of the time it should have been sanded more at the start, people are just cautious when they start.
Click to expand...
You are a 100% correcto!!!!!!!!! Thats what I have been noticeing on this site. A lot of caution, and to many steps are taken. This is do to inexperience, and not useing the proper tools or equipment, hint;(paint gauge,temp gauge,sunlight(which is the correct way to look at paint) magnified Illuminated Linen Tester. Your right I"am excellent in wet sanding if you know you know; my choice of weapon has been and always will be a Milwaukee( and can hold, one handed) with wool pad for compounding and polishing. Experience and knowlegde Prevails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I have never, never,never burned paint on single-stage,two or three. whether Ferrari

or DB9 volante. Peace
 
todd@bsaw said:
I have worked in a couple different detail shops in the WI/MN area and finding your niche as a detailer is something that takes years of presence. Sure, I (and all the other pros) can do equal if not better work than others on this forum, if we were given the same pay and time frame. But when you learn what your market and selected client is expecting, you also learn where to spend your time.
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Intresting thread, but I can not understand your this sentence. Are you saying every pro does better or equal work then the pro's on this forum? If its truely any pro, then that would include pros on this forum, which means they would compete against themselves....
 
I think what he meant was if he was given 3 weeks to work on a car then he could do next to the best job ever done... thats what i took away from it. I understand where he is coming from but disagree.



Todd if i was given a few weeks to do a car that takes you 2 days i doubt i could even rival your expertise.
 
TH0001 said:
Intresting[sic] thread, but I can not understand your[sic] this sentence. Are you saying every pro does better or equal work then the pro's on this forum? If its truely any pro, then that would include pros on this forum, which means they would compete against themselves....
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Todd, you're looking into it too literally and I probably didn't word that the best I could. All I meant to say was that there has been some animosity between members and 'pros' on this forum about the quality of work done and criticizing each others' process. Each pro on here is a business owner (or should be) and they work their own market.



Just because one detailer in one part of the country charges $100 for a "full detail" that isn't as involved as another detailers $1000 2-day detail does not mean they are not capable of such. I envy your business and market, Todd, to do nothing but high-end exotics, but I believe that most of the other pro detailers in this forum could do just as well if we were displaced.



"Professionalism isn't a paycheck. It's an attitude."



- Great quote, Gonz.
 
^^^^ agreed....if someone wanted to pay me 700+ for a detail top to bottom, I could produce some outstanding results...but, no one I have met wants to pay that, so I dont have those click and brags...and I am not talking a trashed inside and out car, but rather the low mileage only needing a two step to clear up, but wanting a simple 4 step to bring out the most shine car owners...those are the ones I would love to detail, not the ones REALLY needing it...but ill do both no problem
 
Jimmy Buffit said:
Scott, I feel your pain. But, keep an eye on NAPDR activities. I'm pretty sure you'll begin to see an organization worth the cost. The recent MTE was very worthwhile, and NAPDR was a major factor. I'm already a believer...
Click to expand...



Sounds interesting, keep us posted.



Regarding this thread, yes, know thy customer. Some folks just want a shiny car.

Took us awhile to understand that.



Jim
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Same here. I try to accomodate all my customers as best I can, even though on most of their cars, I wish they'd pay for me to do what I know really needs to be done.
 
todd@bsaw said:
Todd, you're looking into it too literally and I probably didn't word that the best I could. All I meant to say was that there has been some animosity between members and 'pros' on this forum about the quality of work done and criticizing each others' process. Each pro on here is a business owner (or should be) and they work their own market.



Just because one detailer in one part of the country charges $100 for a "full detail" that isn't as involved as another detailers $1000 2-day detail does not mean they are not capable of such. I envy your business and market, Todd, to do nothing but high-end exotics, but I believe that most of the other pro detailers in this forum could do just as well if we were displaced.

"Professionalism isn't a paycheck. It's an attitude."



- Great quote, Gonz.
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I respectfully disagree. A) I do more than high end exotics (though they do comprise 75-85 percent of the work I do, depending on how you define "high end exotic". IMO, your comparison is like saying that if I had enough time to play basketball, I would be as good as Michael Jordan was...



I am not trying to compare myself to Michael Jordan, but only saying that the when somebody has a lot of experience doing these type of details, they tend to be better at this type of work because of the share repetition of the work. That is, lets say one person has done 100s of these "perfection details" it would only make sense that they would be better at it and likely produce better results then somebody who has done zero of them but has it down in "therory".



It only makes sense that who ever has more experience doing certain types of work is going to better (if they are passionate and willing to learn each and everytime) then somebody who doesn't, even if their skill sets are the same. I can tell you honestly I am better at the "1000 dollar 2 day details" now then I was 3 months ago because my experience doing these types of details is so much greater than it was 3 months ago, and hopefully 3 months from now it will be even greater, and I will do an even better job.



I have always said that I have been very lucky to have these clients that allow me to do this, but at some point experience in the market does generate a better product than somebody who doesn't have the experience. By the same token, I wouldn't be as profiecent at a 100 dollar, limited detail as somebody who does this type of work every day as well.
 
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