Leather Cleaner recommend

David Fermani said:
Any toughts?



How about Joy dish cleaner and a scotch brite pad?
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Like to see the MSDS before we talk about this "Joy Dish Cleaner".



Do you mean the leather is the dish for the cat to lick off the cream (JuneBug's great idea) - thereafter clean the leather like any other dish?



Otherwise the "cat" will run away with the "dish" - with the tune of Hey diddle, diddle!



Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
Nearly miss out the scotch brite pad!



Please define the scotch brite pad.



If you can’t, at least tell us the grade of abrasion or the color be it black, grey, green or white.



I begin to enjoy the fun in this forum



“LOL�



And thank you David, for inviting me here!



Very soon, I may be banned; who knows for whatever reasons.



Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
David Fermani said:
What's the expert concensus on using steam to clean leather? Pros / Cons??
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Well, define “steaming�.



Do you want your leather to be steamed: rare, medium-rare or well-done.



Have you seen the black and white old movie - Charlie Chaplin having his leather shoe for a meal with a knife and a fork?



Yes you can steam to eat it - play it safe boil it to eat it, otherwise too rare.



Anyway, its cowhide like any other skin it’s edible!



When leather is in hot water, the temperature will break the hydrogen-bond between the protein fibers and the other leather constituents.



These other leather constituents like the tanning agent, fatliquor, preservatives leach out, thus reversing the leather to rawhide again.



And when the rawhide is cook further is then edible.





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
Roger Koh said:
Please define the scotch brite pad.



If you can’t, at least tell us the grade of abrasion or the color be it black, grey, green or white.
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White Delicate Duty



Roger Koh said:
I begin to enjoy the fun in this forum



“LOL”



And thank you David, for inviting me here!



Very soon, I may be banned; who knows for whatever reasons.
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:xyxthumbs As long as you play by the rules and are here to help us and not you. I think you're doing great. There's a reason why this thread has received almost 3000 member views thus far. :kewlpics



Roger Koh said:
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Well, define “steaming”.



Do you want your leather to be steamed: rare, medium-rare or well-done.



When leather is in hot water, the temperature will break the hydrogen-bond between the protein fibers and the other leather constituents.



These other leather constituents like the tanning agent, fatliquor, preservatives leach out, thus reversing the leather to rawhide again.
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Oh, gotcha. :think2 Many here have been insisting on the safeness(and effectiveness) of steaming leather. I get :soscared: when I hear it being mentioned.
 
wfedwar said:
pH happens to be about 7 for pure water at about room temperature. It is NOT DEFINED to be 7.
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Can you tell us which brand of pure water has that kind of pH value, please! please!



I have been looking for years, in vain!



We want to have it, NOT just talk about it!



Pure water at pH 7, very elusive!





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
Per Eagle Ottawa's site:



Automotive leather is typically finished with coatings which protect the surface from the sun's damaging rays as well making it resistant to soiling. The finishes used in automotive upholstery leather are unique – much different than furniture, garment or shoe leathers. Leather is extremely resilient and easy to clean and maintain.



Before cleaning leather upholstery, vacuum it to remove dust. To clean leather, simply use a clean, soft and lint-free cloth dampened with lukewarm water and mild soap. Use a gentle, circular motion – do not rub the leather or apply extreme pressure when cleaning.



Wipe the leather again with another clean, slightly damp cloth to remove soap residue. Dry with a soft cloth.



To maintain its resiliency, leather should be cleaned whenever it becomes soiled. Dust and dirt may harm leather if allowed to work into the finish.



Never use alcohol, cleaning solvents, oils, varnishes or polishes on your leather, and avoid using the following products as they damage the finish:







Any household cleaning products

Solvents

Rubber cleaners

Vinyl cleaners

Plastic cleaners
 
Define "Mild Soap". This seems to be the sticking point on cleaning leather.



Therefore, "Mild Soap" has a very broad definition.



Anyway, Porsche has a specific was to treat leather, use their products! Gee, it's not enough to buy it, service it, and obtain additional parts for it.



Thus far, I've had good results with Sonus to treat the leather and LM as well.



Zaino, which I really like, but seems to have a bit much leather odor for this type of leather which has a very unique odor on it's own. However, Zaino matches Lexus leather odor on the money! When I traded in my SC430 back to Lexus, they wanted to know how the hell it still smells new, except for the slight plastic/urathane odor as I pointed that out due to limited plastic, but the clearcoat on the wood did off-gas when warm.



Right now, I'm sure the rest of us could care less about the debate on water PH at this time.



What we want is to resolve leather cleaning and conditioning, that's it.



Please get back on topic!:tribe:



Deanski
 
David, that info to me sounds sensible and is the way that I clean my leather. It is also the way that one leather "expert" advocates. Now if only they offered their leather products over here................
 
Can we all agree that Judy and Roger have different points? and that they won't change their views or agree on one broad one? OK, now it's up to ya'll to decide - do you want Door #1, Door #2 or Door#3 ? - wait, Jay's bringing something down, it's a box, ok - Let's Make a Deal...........



Grouse once said, " Put 10 carpet cleaners in a room, get 10 different opinions"



Sorry - but like how many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop - the world may never know.



So, what's a mutha to do? I think Deanski has had the best advice, and that's the religion of leather I'm following.
 
Deanski said:
Define "Mild Soap". This seems to be the sticking point on cleaning leather.



Therefore, "Mild Soap" has a very broad definition.



Right now, I'm sure the rest of us could care less about the debate on water PH at this time.



What we want is to resolve leather cleaning and conditioning, that's it.



Please get back on topic!:tribe:



Deanski
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The mild soap mentioned is either mildly acidic or mildly alkaline; anyway soap is never good for cleaning things because it leaves its�residual scum that attracts soil like a magnet�.



Often seen on face wash basin, bathtub and shower screen - try wipe off these scum with a slightly damp cloth as instructed.



If it’s difficult from a smooth surface, it’s even more difficult from leather surface with its grainy texture.



It also happens that the common mild soap falls into one of the products to avoid - “Any household cleaning products�.



You guys here now know a leather-safe (pH 3-5) cleaner does exist - I believe the source didn’t at the time of writing.



Leather-safe products has gone into extensive alpha and beta testing, still waiting for two IICRC - LCT Approved Instructors to updated their manuals to teach classes based on this Leather-safe system in the USA and one in Canada. Yet to convince the the UK and the Australian IICRC-LCT instructor too!



So you folks could be IICRC Certified as mentioned by judyb and recommended by Grouse - see post #81.



Good to hang this IICRC-LCT Certificate up in your work place too!



Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
Andy (our Technical Director) teaches the IICRC (LCT) over here in the UK. He is the only LCT instructor in Europe. We know that there are many things that should be updated in the manuals but getting them done is a slow process. We were instrumental in getting some of the questions changed last year which was a step in the right direction.



Andy was a business partner of Steve Poulos in the USA and was one of the original trainers in the States for LM/Stainsafe when Lonnie was around. We use Steves manual for the IICRC course over here so any changes that are made would be automatically used over here.



The mild soap mentioned is either mildly acidic or mildly alkaline; anyway soap is never good for cleaning things because it leaves its”residual scum that attracts soil like a magnet”.
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At least we agree on this point. Anything that leaves a residue on the surface of leather will attract dirt. It is dirt that will damage the finish together with constant abrasion.
 
The thread's topic is about "Leather Cleaner". The main point is keeping the leather clean from dirt, oil, body sweat, and etc. After cleaning it, you would want to put a water based type conditioner so you can seal it. It's just a simple concept about cleaning and conditioning. Why do we have to go in depth with unnecessary informations and "keep it simple". To the "Leather Experts", can't we just round the numbers to the nearest whole number. The answer doesn't need to be 100% accurate. It's all personal preference. But as people say, keeping the leather clean is the number one priority. Conditioning the leather is really up to you. Everything wear and tear over time. In conclusion, I don't know if you guys are having fun, educating, or really trying to prove a point. After all, it is a forum to spread ideas. But let's keep it neutral at pH 7. Cheers.
 
GS4_Fiend said:
But let's keep it neutral at pH 7. Cheers.
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If it is all about leather!



Let's keep the standard at Leather-Neutral pH 3 - 5 (or averaging 4) if you like a number!



The leather chemist standard - practice in tannery all over the world.



If we are using a world standard - Then the forces will be behind you!



Check it out with the University of Cincinnati, Ohio that has its own research lab on leather.





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
David Fermani said:
Any toughts?



How about Joy dish cleaner and a scotch brite pad?
Click to expand...



I am guessing this is directed squarely at me. My supplier gave me the formula probably ten years ago, but instead of speaking for him I will copy his posts from another forum.



Here is a formula that anyone can use - it was actually designed by Lowell Rassmussen from Eagle Ottowa Tannery - Lowell worked in special projects for 40 years @ Eagle before retiring and working for ILT and then LEAR.



87-89 % Water, 10 % Iso alcohol and 1-3 % joy soap (only joy and not anything with heavy surfactant or a coloring like palmolive). Mix well and use with a light brush.



Be careful using ammonia based cleaners for 2 reasons - 1) water based coatings on aftermarket leathers have little or no crosslinker and this means you pull color off and 2) ammonia penetrates the skin faster than any other product and does damage to your liver.



DYE - there are no DYE's used in mfg'ing of car leather interiors. Pigments only.



Simple Green with Butyl Celosolve will penetrate the coatings and rot and delaminate the top water based layers of leather and cause failures.



A GREAT all-pupose cleaner is Greased Lightening from Home Depot $6.95 gallon and dillute with water 20 %- 50 %. There is no solvents but heavy surfactants so be careful cleaning. when you are done cleaning, clean with a water rinsed rag only to remove the surfactant - soap reside. If the soap is not removed than your coatings won't stick evenly.



Water based coated leather from the factory if applied properly are 4 mil thick with linker which makes most conditioners worthless and won't penetrate. They will penetrate on thin coated leathers.



Be careful on using conditioners laced with lanolin as these are loaded with waxes and do very little to condition and do more to just collect dirt.





Use a cleaner that does not do damage to the orginal finish and you won't have to worry about conditioning. I have lists of over the shelf products that work and do no damage - a free list to anyone interested. Most products you can make in your kitchen or buy @ walkmart...etc
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HOT OIL treatment -



I think I have heard everything now.......



I am going to send that posting on HOT OIL to a few friends who are leather engineers and work in the labs at Perrone, Spinneybeck, Seton and Eagle Tanneries and see what they say.



HOT OIL goes into the seat and when it migrates back out it cause the coating to crock and attract more dirt - yes - good for repeat business until the customer wonders why he clothes are all stained from the oil migrating out.......



How to put yourself out of business in 1 easy step - ruin a customers car.....
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Again - making statements that have no facts or can not be substantiated by companies ( tanneries in this venue) that actually make leather then don't post as you cause long term harm to a customers car. Concoctions made up in a garage - if it works great - but be careful what you post to the world if the concoctions have not been tested. what might work on a car seat from a old car with lacquer coated seats or from a piece of vinylized GM coating or a heat laminate from ILT or Lear a few years ago most likely wont work on soft graded auto seats from a highline or especially from a BMW that has no top coat and no warranty from the factory to give the customer a softer feeling leather seat. A doesn't always equal A. This is why companies test before they publish results. There is no way i would put oil - hot or cold on a Lexus seat with fiber optics wiring inside of it as it would probably cause irreplaceable damage. Airbags have come along way. How does these treatments effect airbags or 40 lb stitching on seams? what happens when these oils penetrate the leather and touch seat heaters or the talc powder surrounding an airbag and how does it pull from its lasting effectiveness ?



Remember aftermarket 20 years ago has changed. i have systems and coatings at Wyotech where they train upholsters on all new vehicles and Airbag technologies. This trade has changed in so many ways that the mobile tech and the suppliers have to keep up with substrates and new designs so no one is hurt, effected or sued from poor performing or backyard concoctions coatings and or conditioners....etc.



I stay educated because I sit on advisory committees for tech schools ( aircraft, auto, furniture, marine and military ) and take classes at QC seminars and teach at some.
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I have mentioned LRT. Another member here is getting Jon to work on his seats in the near future. Jon can verify the formula, as he works closely with Eagle Ottawa for Quaker Color.
 
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