Leather Cleaner recommend

George LRP said:
Water molecules, heavy oil molecules, and nutrients that are good for leather are different types of molecules. The cheap oil based products used by many products are not good for leather as the oil does not absorb into the protein based leather fiber, it actually pushes the fragile fibers further apart.



The method Roger Koh is describing is exactly what Leatherique has been advocating for 50 years. The Leatherique Rejuvenator is distributed by many of the supporters of this forum, is used worldwide by conservators, museums, as well as do it yourselfers, and is actually a leather specific protein based complex that is absorbed into the fibers of the hide to restore tensile strength and luxurious suppleness, and dirt by it's own nature and weight is floated out of the hide and can be safely cleaned with Leatherique's ph correct Prestine clean. You can use Rejuvenator 2-4 times per year to maintain the leather, and Prestine clean each time you dust or detail as it's a cleaner and light conditioner in one step for the surface cleaning. Leatherique also manufactures leather dyes, crack filler, and prepping agents if your color is worn, faded, or cracking.



Water from rain, drinks, coffee, coke, kids juice packs and sip cups, as well as high ph type cleaners and perspiration are all easily absorbed through the finish as the finish is NOT WATER PROOF. The newer water based finishes that leather manufacturers have been using since the 1990's, as well as the surface sprayed lacquers from the '80's back are on the surface to protect the hides and give them customer appeal. Cars, furniture, jackets, bags would be boring if everything was all natural tan in color.



You can easily test leather absorption yourself. Cut a scrap of leather from a salvage seat in a junk yard. Pour a few ounces of black coffee on top, and within a few hours you'll see the dark stain underneath on the hide.



We have leather in our cars because leather is luxurious, breathes, adjusts to body temperature. These are things vinyl simply can't do.



We treat leather and vinyl differently, because they are different. There are grades of vinyl that are more water resistant, which is why they are used in marine applications. You don't see much leather used as a convertible top to protect against rain. It is too heavy, and even if the surface is sealed, it will eventually absorb the rain. Leather is sometimes used as a convertible top cover on Ferrari, Rolls Royce, Bentley, but they presume you'll stow the leather conver in the boot during rain, and put the canvas convertible top back up.



The purpose of all cleaners is to emulsify dirt, turn it to mud so it can be floated away. On a porous surface like leather, often the mud is re-abosrbed back into the hide creating a perpetual dirty appearance especially on light leathers. The products that "finish" the surface also trap dirt.



Different folks like the smells or glossy looks of many of the commercial products. And they are fine to use as a dressing, as long as you are aware that all they are doing is making the coated surface shiney which makes for a nicely detailed car. For long lasting leather, it is vital to use a specific leather nourishment such as Leatherique Rejuvenator a few times a year to keep the actual hide healthy and strong, as the backbone of your upholstery to prevent splitting and cracking due to the fibers pulling apart, as well as to keep the finished surface shiney.



Perspiration from our bodies also has a high ph that can ruin and dry the hide as the salts are easily absorbed into the hides. Surely everyone has seen leather steering wheels and arm rests degrade and crack due to the absorption of perspiration. These are important areas to keep nourished and very clean. Another area that is often missed in leather care is the top of the back seat. These can literally fall aprt with a light touch as uv rays of the sun coming through slanty rear windows degrades the hides. I have seen the tops of back seats become powder, yet a few inches lower the leather is fine.



Proper leather care is vital to the life and appearance of your car, very expensive to replace, and deserving of all the attention it is getting in this discussion. Most lay people are not aware of the slight modifications to different years of cars. If you car looks like new, people perceive it as new even though it can be many years old. A luxurious leather interior that looks and feels like new will always maintain the value in your car.

regards,

George



Good job at promoting your products, while Judy has danced around the subject of her products for the last year and a half to avoid being banned.



So, now that your here, can you tell me who Leatherique has used to independently test your claims about Rejuvinator? I have asked Jeff Ochs a couple of times if it could penetrate his coating or OEM coatings. He usually laughs and says that it can not. I know he has looked at the product, because someone asked him if Stahl could duplicate the product. Matter of fact, have you had any of your products independently tested?
 
Thanks JudyB for sharing your thoughts on leather. Everytime I reed your

post I learn something new. Your very helpful and easy to understand and

your not a smart-eleck. Thanks!!!
 
Quality Leather said:
Roger,

I am checking out your forum. Some of your products look interesting. Is there anyway to get some literature on your products?



-------------------





The products information and instruction are found in the main category - Leather Products, Technical, etc.



You will find the second thread as:



Leather Cleaners and Conditioners (40 products), Repair (9 products), Auxiliary for Refinishing (5 products) & Color Refinishing (30 products) are listed in Alphabetical Order with Description and Instruction.



Contact info removed by moderator. That makes two posters in this thread that have crossed the line. Everyone take note: anyone who posts a link to his website, contact info, or promotes his own product line will be banned immediately, no more warnings. -- Tort
 
Roger Koh said:
-------------------





The products information and instruction are found in the main category - Leather Products, Technical, etc.



You will find the second thread as:



Leather Cleaners and Conditioners (40 products), Repair (9 products), Auxiliary for Refinishing (5 products) & Color Refinishing (30 products) are listed in Alphabetical Order with Description and Instruction.



Contact info removed by moderator. That makes two posters in this thread that have crossed the line. Everyone take note: anyone who posts a link to his website, contact info, or promotes his own product line will be banned immediately, no more warnings. -- Tort



So. I guess he should have PMed me the info. I didn't see any other posts edited, who was the other offender?
 
I mentioned this previously but after following this entire thread, I'm sticking with a cleaner that is the same pH as the material I'm cleaning, in this case the polyurethane topcoat on the leather. That topcoat is a nominal pH7, BTW.



One reason for my decision is that I have an 18 YO vehicle that I clean regularly with a pH7 cleaner and the protected leather still looks factory new, no wear, no cracking, no hardening, no scum buildup. My own long term experience dictates that what I use works.



Oh, one more thing about cleaning soap scum from a shower door and sink.



TIP: If you wipe down your shower door with a clean (wrung-out) mf immediately after you use it you won't have any soap scum build-up to worry about trying to remove later. The same holds true for your sink. If you wipe it down with a damp MF and then buff with a dry mf after use there will be no scum buildup. Try it and see for yourself.



The same obviously holds true for the cleaner on my protected leather. After 18 years of using a pH7 cleaner I have no detergent buildup. That's because I wipe off all traces of the detergent and buff the leather topcoat dry after cleaning.



I believe strongly that the single most important thing we can do to preserve our protected automotive leathers is to keep them clean.
 
jfelbab said:
One reason for my decision is that I have an 18 YO vehicle that I clean regularly with a pH7 cleaner and the protected leather still looks factory new, no wear, no cracking, no hardening, no scum buildup. My own long term experience dictates that what I use works.



After 18 years of using a pH7 cleaner I have no detergent buildup.



:showpics:hide::LOLOL
 
Holy Crap:



bsmeter.gif




This is getting nuts!



Deanski
 
Just been spending some time checking out Rogers fatliquoring claims with the American Leather Chemists Association (of which we are associate members) and came across this interesting quote:



" Fatliquor is not volatile nor migratory, so leather is not going to lose it.

However, along with the fatliquor, the other critical factor is moisture. Any leather is going to lose its moisture in a not car. Although leather seems dry, it is not. Of course too much moisture quickly leads to mold and mildew problems, so soaking it down is not reasonable. Ideally, exposure to humid atmosphere will help balance the effect of over drying on hot days. Leather is very dynamic with respect to moisture content, meaning moisture comes and goes easily under normal circumstances...."



Hope this helps
 
judyb said:
Just been spending some time checking out Rogers fatliquoring claims with the American Leather Chemists Association (of which we are associate members) and came across this interesting quote:



" Fatliquor is not volatile nor migratory, so leather is not going to lose it.

However, along with the fatliquor, the other critical factor is moisture. Any leather is going to lose its moisture in a not car. Although leather seems dry, it is not. Of course too much moisture quickly leads to mold and mildew problems, so soaking it down is not reasonable. Ideally, exposure to humid atmosphere will help balance the effect of over drying on hot days. Leather is very dynamic with respect to moisture content, meaning moisture comes and goes easily under normal circumstances...."



Hope this helps



---------------------



So, what is this white haze or film you see on this old brown leather surface?



Please clarify?



DSCN2697.jpg




Roger Koh
 
As I have said on the other forum Roger this may be 'spew' (caused by the inbalance of fatliquors in the leather) this is a specific problem with a specific product to solve it. This is a stabilisng product and does not replace the fat liquors.



The fat liquors in 'spewing' have become destabilised wither during the retanning process or subsequent environmental conditions. If fat liquors were lost on a regular basis all our leather would develop a white haze as a general rule.



It could be any number of things form salts to talcum powder - a picture cannot always tell the full story and we would ned to examine the item to verify the correct proceedure for this particular case.
 
Thought I'd post my story here, hoping to get some intelligent responses..



A couple weeks ago, I left my sunroof open over the weekend. I live in NC and it get's pretty hot during the summer so I like to keep my sunroof open so it's not a sauna when i get in the car on Monday mornings. Anyways, it ended up raining Sunday night and my 2005 VW Passat black leather seats got totally saturated in Rain water. I've been using leathrique over the past couple weeks just about every other day. The rain got so bad that it actually left bubbles in the seat, almost like a bubble pocket. What does the bubble pocket come from? Anyone know? My seats are literally hard as a rock..



Here are some pictures for those who want to see the damage.. :(



leather1.jpg


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leather2.jpg


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leather3.jpg
 
I hate this thread. I personally do not believe it's helpful one bit, and I am no closer to knowing what the best way is to take care of my Audi's leather after reading it.



I think I'm going to just use undiluted Purple Power and a wire brush. And condition it with gasoline mixed with IPA.
 
rlarsen462 said:
I hate this thread. I personally do not believe it's helpful one bit, and I am no closer to knowing what the best way is to take care of my Audi's leather after reading it.



I think I'm going to just use undiluted Purple Power and a wire brush. And condition it with gasoline mixed with IPA.



That's exactly how I clean and treat my leather. My leather is 97 years old and still looks like brand new!!!!!! :woot:
 
[quote name='Pardity']Thought I'd post my story here, hoping to get some intelligent responses..



A couple weeks ago, I left my sunroof open over the weekend. I live in NC and it get's pretty hot during the summer so I like to keep my sunroof open so it's not a sauna when i get in the car on Monday mornings. Anyways, it ended up raining Sunday night and my 2005 VW Passat black leather seats got totally saturated in Rain water. I've been using leathrique over the past couple weeks just about every other day. The rain got so bad that it actually left bubbles in the seat, almost like a bubble pocket. What does the bubble pocket come from? Anyone know? My seats are literally hard as a rock..







---







Bubble pocket…leather hard as rock!



When leather is wet (the pH of this damaging water is the culprit for certainly it was not leather-safe pH 3 - 5).



That’s why most fashion leather jackets have labels that often read “Dry Clean Only”.



So, non leather-safe water can be damaging to leather as in this case.



The fatliquor has somehow diminishes (breaks bonds) with the protein leather fibrils.



Therefore when the leather dries without the present of fatliquor that has lubricate these millions of fibrils that acts like connecting hinges becomes “hard as rock”.



That's the "Van der Waal Forces" phenomenon theory that works against you!



Just like door hinges after floods refused to move - stuck!



The bubble pocket comes from leather tension differentiation - requires hydration with relaxation thereafter fatliquoring to replenish what’s lost.



If you believe so far what I say - I will follow up with the logical remedy.



What do you think?





Roger Koh

Be Patience with me I’m just a Leather Doctor!
 
Roger Koh said:
[quote name='Pardity']Thought I'd post my story here, hoping to get some intelligent responses..



A couple weeks ago, I left my sunroof open over the weekend. I live in NC and it get's pretty hot during the summer so I like to keep my sunroof open so it's not a sauna when i get in the car on Monday mornings. Anyways, it ended up raining Sunday night and my 2005 VW Passat black leather seats got totally saturated in Rain water. I've been using leathrique over the past couple weeks just about every other day. The rain got so bad that it actually left bubbles in the seat, almost like a bubble pocket. What does the bubble pocket come from? Anyone know? My seats are literally hard as a rock..







---







Bubble pocket…leather hard as rock!



When leather is wet (the pH of this damaging water is the culprit for certainly it was not leather-safe pH 3 - 5).



That’s why most fashion leather jackets have labels that often read “Dry Clean Only”.



So, non leather-safe water can be damaging to leather as in this case.



The fatliquor has somehow diminishes (breaks bonds) with the protein leather fibrils.



Therefore when the leather dries without the present of fatliquor that has lubricate these millions of fibrils that acts like hinges becomes “hard as rock”.



Just like door hinges after floods refused to move - stuck!



The bubble pocket comes from leather tension differentiation - requires hydration with relaxation thereafter fatliquoring to replenish what’s lost.



The “Van der Waal Forces” phenomenon theory applies!



If you believe so far what I say - I will follow up with the logical remedy.



What do you think?





Roger Koh

Just me Patience with me I’m just a Leather Doctor!





Hey Roger, seems you know a lot about leather where as I don't.. I'm desperate to getting my seats looking at least normal.. The leathrique is somewhat working but not at the pace I would like, it's defiantly not doing anything to the bubble.. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
The damage has been caused by the over saturation of leather with water . Although water is generally good for leather when it is over soaked (as in the case here) it will excessively swell the fibres which then become distorted and when they dry back they remain in this distorted state.

As the fibres of the leather have been damaged and stretched there is probably very little that can be done to restore these areas to their former state. Adding more and more products to these areas will not rectify the situation and could make it worse.

Hope this helps
 
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