Leather Cleaner recommend

Dsoto87 said:
See now your changing your definition after the fact.



Your original statement was "leather safe pure water."



The water ca,nt be pure if it had a ph of anything other than 7.



This is pointless though since I get what you mean now.



Thanks for clarifying.
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Please buy a bottle of distilled water, any brand and read the pH yourself with a pH meter.



Question is: Is Distilled Water = Pure Water?



Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
Oh my, I got your point, but I don't think you've got torts point yet.



By the standard pH scale, pure water=7. there's no arguing that. That means pure H2O with no other type of dissolved solids or chemicals.



Maybe your going by some non standard pH scale. I don't know.



If distilled water doesn't have a pH of 7 than its not pure.
 
Dsoto87 said:
Oh my, I got your point, but I don't think you've got torts point yet.



By the standard pH scale, pure water=7. there's no arguing that. That means pure H2O with no other type of dissolved solids or chemicals.



Maybe your going by some non standard pH scale. I don't know.



If distilled water doesn't have a pH of 7 than its not pure.
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If distilled water is not pure water, What it pure water?





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
H2O=pure water. Just because it is distilled doesn't mean its pure.



Liquor is distilled multiple times to make it more pure.



You talk about how you calibrate multiple pH readers yet you don't know where to find pure water. The manufacture usually can supply you or any science supply store should have it.
 
Dsoto87 said:
H2O=pure water. Just because it is distilled doesn't mean its pure.



Liquor is distilled multiple times to make it more pure.



You talk about how you calibrate multiple pH readers yet you don't know where to find pure water. The manufacture usually can supply you or any science supply store should have it.
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The tap water reading average pH 7.



The distilled water I buy by drums does not average pH 7.



Which is pure and which is not pure?



Tell me where you people buy pure distilled water that reads pH 7.



I will buy by the drums!





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
Has anyone compiled a list of vehicles which came from the factory with coated leather?
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No need for a list - this is simple to test. [We generally test with a foam cleaner rather than "pure water" (!) as it has a higher level of surfactant and will overcome any issues with leather that has been waterproofed]

Put some foam cleaner on the surface of the leather and leave for a few seconds. If the foam remains on the surface then you have a coated leather. Most auto leather (about 99%) falls into this category.

If the foam leaves a dark patch then you have a leather that is absorbent and it will have little surface coating. (There is generally some clear coat finish on the surface as pure aniline would not be used as it would be totally impossible to keep clean).



If the leather is absorbent due to the break down of the coating this should be pretty obvious as it would show cracking, ingrained dirt etc. but high wear areas may give this reading on occassions - just do several tests on different areas and see the results. This would certainly be the time for restoration if this was the case.



There are always some special editions which catch us out every now and again but aniline style leather is fairly rare (King Ranch use it I know) - protection is crucial in these cases to make them more practical to look after.



Nubuck/suede which would give a very absorbent reading are thankfully rare. These are generally waterproofed and if you test with water it would bead up on the surface and give a false reading which is why foam gives a better test.



The colour of the seats will also be an indication of whether the leather is coated or not. Generally speaking aniline style leathers (non coated) come in very earthy natural colours. If leather is cream, beige, yellow, red, blue etc. this has generally been pigment coated to achieve that colour (there are of course with leather always some exceptions to this rule and nubuck/suede can be any colour)



There is a simple 5 step test you can follow which gives a very accurate reading of the type and state of the leather you have before starting any process:



Visual

Touch

Scratch (uncoated leathers scratch more easily)

Moisture (as above)

Microscope



These give a very accurate picture of the leather, how it will react to cleaning and indicate any problem areas you might have before you start.

The microscope test will also show any areas of micro cracking which will determine (particularly on cream leathers) how clean the leather will look after your cleaning process. Micro cracking on pale colours always makes it look slightly dirty but no amount of cleaning will get these areas free of all the dirt and this is the correct stage to consider some low level of restoration.



Cleaning is as much about the state of the leather you are dealing with and the method you use as well as the product. All three will determine the results you get not one taken in isolation.

Hope this helps
 
Imagine the joy in calling Leather Masters for product support?





But thanks for clearing things up before I made a purchase!





Judy- sounds like most leather interiors won't truly benefit from a "feeding" with fatliquor as they are coated, correct?
 
Entertaining thread in a way, Judy (IMHO) wins the debate with that last post. Doesn't mean I agree 100% for reasons already stated several times.
 
Imagine the joy in calling Leather Masters for product support?
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Our Technical Director used to be LM Tech Dept Head in the early days of LM/Stainsafe in the USA and in those days you would have got good product support but I am not sure who is around these days to give that level of expertise. Something we major on over here as all our technicians know they can phone for support and advice any time.



Judy- sounds like most leather interiors won't truly benefit from a "feeding" with fatliquor as they are coated, correct?
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Correct. The best way to make your leather last longer and in good 'condition' is to clean it on a regular basis so that dirt is not allowed to damage the finish/pigment on the leather.

The simplest way to make it easier to clean is to protect it which will also stop dye transfer from occuring on pale leathers.



Hope this helps
 
There is much to cover, although this simple thread is only “Leather Cleaner Recommend�.



We have gone into such details, as defining this and that - mind boggling.



Might as well throw in the essential that we can profit from it!



Academic is one thing, what’s practical is availability, profitability and leather-safe both to the user and the environment therefore product used should be:



1: Leather-Safe (otherwise neutralize to leather neutral)

1: Non Hazardous

2: Non Carcinogenic

3: Non Fire Hazards

4: Non or low VOC

5: Non Toxic

6: Ecological Friendly - biodegradable





I believe you will be interested to discuss the “How-To� of these topics as well, to boost your confidence as an auto leather service provider, that you will be confident to take in autos of any make with high-end leather interior without those “plastic-like impervious urethane topcoats� - like the “King Ranch� mentioned by judyb above.



The General Structure of Leather Cleaning & Conditioning Auto Leather Interior for discussion is as follows:



You may add what’s missing of peculiar leather service request from customers from the past to the below:





1: Spots & Stains Removing



Bleaching Dye Stains



Blood Stains Removing



Ballpoint Ink Stain Removing



Dye Transfer Stain Removing



Permanent Marker and other Solvent-based Stain Removing



Oil and Grease Stain Removing



Protein-based Stain Removing



Spew Removing



Wine, Coffee, Tea and other Tannin Stain Removing



Metallic Stain Removing



Urine Stain Removing



Oxidized and Hydrolyzed Yellow Effect Removing





2: pH Neutralizing



Low acidic exposure - example maybe battery water (rare).



High alkaline exposure that result in - brightness, streaks, tackiness, sliminess, etc (common).





3: Antimicrobial Treatment



Controlling Bacteria Activities - flood damaged leather interior



Controlling Mold Infestation - flood damaged leather interior



General Sanitizing that retards microbial activities





4: Deodorizing



Body and Animal Odor Removing



Smoke Odor Removing





5: Preconditioning - Severity and Types of Soiling



Super Cleaner for Greasy Soiling



Strong Cleaner for Heavy Soiling





6: Cleaning



All Purpose Leather Cleaning





7: Acidify Rinsing to Leather-Neutral



All Purpose Leather Rinsing





8: Hydrating



Hydrating Dried Leather - Helps separates crush and stick together leather fibrils thus opens up the inter-fibrillary spaces for leather seating breathing comfort.

Water marks from flood damaged leather interior.





9: Structure-Conditioning



Softening and Strengthen Leather - Helps to keep leather at its optimum physical performance and prevent premature ageing.





10: Leather Protecting



Protecting against UV, Stains, Sticky Soiling, Wear and Tear.





11: Sensuous Leather Scenting



Imparting a Classic Leather Scent - “the scent of leather is more leathery than the leather itself� - it charms both man and woman through the centuries...a priceless commodity of olde!





12: Feel-Conditioning



Imparting a tactile feel - Buttery, Draggy, Waxy or Silky - remember the video on “fatliquoring� mentioning that leather feels “buttery� - have you experience it?





By the way there is a General Leather Repair & Refinishing Structure too - if you are interested!





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
Very funny!



SPCA approved?



I must then add:



No Cruelty to both Man and Animal when performing Leather Cleaning and Conditioning related task!





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
JuneBug said:
Why not put some cream on it and have the cat lick it off, cleans, non toxic, blah blah
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Opps!!





You should also define your "cream"





Be specific, do your cream penetrates, pH value, waterbased or oilbased, etc.



"LOL"



funny!



Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
JuneBug said:
Why not put some cream on it and have the cat lick it off, cleans, non toxic, blah blah
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How about “franchising� this superb idea of yours?



Our new Leather Cleaning and Conditioning service is “SPCA - Approved�



We “Cat-O-Rize� it!



This new “breakthrough leather cleaning and conditioning technology" that is 3 in one.



Using a special breed hybrid “Cat� that not only Clean and Condition but also Deodorize it with a unique pee that will retards and condom off all other cats that most likely will pee on it too if chance arises!





“All great ideas may come from a seemingly foolish thought�



I like your idea - fresh!!!



Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
judyb said:
The simplest way to make it easier to clean is to protect it which will also stop dye transfer from occuring on pale leathers.



Hope this helps
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“Protect It�



With what?



Isn’t the leather 1st strata - both grain and structure is “protected� by a pigment coat - that is again “protected� by a top coat - some may be even be cross-linked to have it supper tough!



Unless you can demonstrate that the off-market “Protector� is tougher than the original topcoat.



In most cases, the leather surface is not well clean of residues and neutralized to leather neutral (in this case the urethane coat neutral is Not pH 7).



We are sealing in micro layers of foreign contamination to the detriment of the leather finishes.



Think about it, seriously.



In such cases a non-stick buttery or silky feel condition would be a better option to reduce friction - thus reduce abrasion (less rub-off as dye transfer from apparel is reduced).



Easily strip off with preconditions as and when needed, which reduce build-ups.



To condom off the grain too much loses the sensuous feel of the leather - once a living skin too!



Hey! Luxurious leather has the “skin-to-skin� contact feel - that’s why they are soo… expensive just like the “King Ranch�.



For sensuality you want “naked leathers�, not those that has a protective layer.





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®
 
I dunno - just the cream baker's use - availible at the grocery store. So far the cats - I have a half dozen - seem to like the idea, anyway - I thought it better than tuna fish, might make the wife think i got something going on the side.



oh - and along those lines, I'm going to that fancy underwear shop and seeing if they got some leather g-strings for the wife, never let your love life get boring, ol Jody will take your place.
 
JuneBug said:
I dunno - just the cream baker's use - availible at the grocery store. So far the cats - I have a half dozen - seem to like the idea, anyway - I thought it better than tuna fish, might make the wife think i got something going on the side.



oh - and along those lines, I'm going to that fancy underwear shop and seeing if they got some leather g-strings for the wife, never let your love life get boring, ol Jody will take your place.
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For your fancy underwear - play it clean!



d'bactericide (pH 3.7) it frequent, at least sanitize (pH 3.9) it more often.



Leather scent it too, so you known where it is located when the night is dark.



Even your blind partner knows you're wearing leather in broad daylight.



So, go and enjoy your leather!



Anyway as I often said - "the scent of leather is more leathery than the leather itself"



Leather without this classic scent that charms is "death and stale".



Any problem you encounter, just post it and help will be there!



Roger Koh

leather Doctor®
 
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