I read the ONR Thread - I still have questions...

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Danspeed1

New member
Well its officially winter here in NY. Boy am i glad I spent all that time 2 weeks ago de-swirling the finish on my Impala SS :rolleyes: . The car is not to bad yet but we got like 2 feet of snow total and I have no way of washing the car. For the last couple of years I have seen ONR threads everywhere and I have been very skeptical of the stuff. Today I ordered a bottle and decided to give it a try. I read the difinitive ONR thread but I still have questions or rather concerns.



First... I can't figure out how it doesn't marr, scratch, and swirl my swirl free finish to death. It appears as though what you are doing wiping a wet grout sponge across a dry finish that clearly has dirt on it. What can I do to prevent or at least minimize the scratching?



And secondly, how does the grim make its way completely off the car. I've seen the videos of gunk dripping off the cars, but I have to say, it sends chills down my spine when I watch someone dry the car with a microfiber towel after one pass of a sponge an ONR... again my concerns are about scratching and marring.



Finally, I intend to put a coat of wax on the car after I ONR it. Can I do that? IT may seem stupid but i read that ONR is very slimy and it leaves the car very glossy. Does it leave any sort of residue that would not go good with my Wax Collinite 476s.



These may seem like stupid concerns, but it goes against what I have traditionally learned about washing cars... and the high gloss leftover leads me to believe that it has some sort of fillers.



Clear this up for me please,



Dan
 
Danspeed1 said:
Well its officially winter here in NY. Boy am i glad I spent all that time 2 weeks ago de-swirling the finish on my Impala SS :rolleyes: . The car is not to bad yet but we got like 2 feet of snow total and I have no way of washing the car. For the last couple of years I have seen ONR threads everywhere and I have been very skeptical of the stuff. Today I ordered a bottle and decided to give it a try. I read the difinitive ONR thread but I still have questions or rather concerns.



First... I can't figure out how it doesn't marr, scratch, and swirl my swirl free finish to death. I can't, either. Honestly, it just doesn't make sense to me. There's some serious chemistry voodoo going on here. It appears as though what you are doing wiping a wet grout sponge across a dry finish that clearly has dirt on it. Yeah, that's exactly what you are doing. What can I do to prevent or at least minimize the scratching? Believe it or not, the chances are you won't get any (or at least very minimal) scratching. I do get some very light marring/swirling from extended use of ONR, but much less than what you would expect, for sure. There are alot of people here that successfully use ONR with *no* marring. They are my heroes. Just don't use it on a *really* dirty car. There's going to be a lot of "I use it on really dirty cars and get no marring" replies, but I'm still of the opinion that ONR should only be used on cars that aren't all that dirty.



And secondly, how does the grim make its way completely off the car. I've seen the videos of gunk dripping off the cars, but I have to say, it sends chills down my spine when I watch someone dry the car with a microfiber towel after one pass of a sponge an ONR... again my concerns are about scratching and marring. Alot of Autopians swear by the grout sponge. Me, I swear *at* the grout sponge. I used it for quite a while, but I get better results (the dirt coming off the paint and not just being pushed around by the sponge) if I follow ONR's directions to a T: Use a high quality MF to wash the car. I also do two and sometimes three passes on a panel before drying. IMO, it's the drying part of an ONR wash that has the most potential for marring; you gotta make sure everything is off the paint, which is the main reason I switched from a grout sponge back to a big fluffy MF.



Finally, I intend to put a coat of wax on the car after I ONR it. Can I do that? IT may seem stupid but i read that ONR is very slimy and it leaves the car very glossy. Does it leave any sort of residue that would not go good with my Wax Collinite 476s. I wax after ONR washes, but I also do a thorough IPA wipedown first. ONR doesn't leave very much stuff behind on the paint, though. Far less than what you'd think.



These may seem like stupid concerns, but it goes against what I have traditionally learned about washing cars... and the high gloss leftover leads me to believe that it has some sort of fillers. Not stupid at all. Very Autopian of you! To this day, my brain screams "Stop! *** do you think you're doing????" Everytime I do an ONR wash. Eventually, you learn to not listen to the voices.... ;)



Clear this up for me please,



Dan
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Give it a shot, and let us know what you think!



Edit: for the record, I use ONR *exactly* as stated in the instructions, with one exception: I pre-spray each panel with ONR at QD dilution.
 
Careful buddy, you're about to get 500 different answers.



ONR won't marr the paint because it "encapsulates" the dirt. That means that as dirt is lifted from your paint (through agitation with a wash mitt), it is suspended in the ONR solution until you dry. Then when you dry, the dirty water is absorbed into the nap of your microfiber towel.



That's how it works, but there are ALOT of disclaimers.



First, there are plenty of people on this board who are going to tell you that you can use ONR safely even on extremely dirty cars. However, logic will tell you that, ONR's encapsulation has a limit. In other words, at some point, the solution must become saturated with dirt. (I'm not a chemist, so I don't know this for a fact. But it makes total sense, and I don't see how it could not be true).



Therefore, on the really dirty cars, you can reduce your risk of marring by pre-soaking with a pesticide sprayer, and doing a first pass of 'blotting' with your wash mitt. Obviously, this is going to take a long time, and requires immense patience, effort, and care. A better solution (i think), is to give yourself a head start and take the car to a touch-free car wash and get the car 70-90% clean.



In my experience ONR is not slimy, and does not leave the car glossy. In my own experiments, I've only found that to happen when you use too much ONR in your wash solution.



Again, you're probably going to get 500 different answers to this post and some of those will include people recommending that you adjust the ratio of ONR to water in order to improve its cleaning properties. If my above theory (about ONR becoming 'saturated' with dirt) is true, then a higher concentration of ONR solution should improve performance. I have found this to be true as well. However, the side effects are streaks and residue.
 
Supe and Less summed it all up pretty well. I like to use a garden sprayer to pre-soak with a solution of ONR and like Supe said: "....I also do two and sometimes three passes on a panel before drying. IMO, it's the drying part of an ONR wash that has the most potential for marring; you gotta make sure everything is off the paint...."



The garden sprayers are pretty cheap but might be hard to find right now, but this is almost like the one I use:



Amazon.com: Chapin Lawn and Garden 1-Gallon Sprayer #20000: Home Improvement
 
I still hear those voices as well....the voices of thousands of Autopians and DW'ers past and present screamimg "what are you doing man!" in my head all the time....



I cheated this weekend, with a good foam and rinse first, that thanks to my new 10L/min PW, left the car 'looking clean' with no visible salt or debris anywhere. ONR with a chubby MF sponge came next, and it picked up a layer of surface dirt very nicely, and despite constant checking of drying towels, there was NO muck left anywhere to leave any dirt marks on my drying MFs :2thumbs: I'm still not settled on wash media and will try my thick MFs again next wash, but so far so good...



Damn those voices ;)
 
Danspeed1 said:
...it sends chills down my spine when I watch someone dry the car with a microfiber towel after one pass of a sponge an ONR...Dan
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Yes, when I see similar things done on a dirty car, I feel the same. But who said that you have to do one pass with ONR???!!! How did you come to this conclusion?



Common sense usually says: wash it until it is clean.
 
Danspeed1- Noting that I can't wash as marring-free with ONR as I can with my regular foamgun-centric methods (my results were similar to those of SuperBee364, not nearly as bad as I'd expected but not nearly good enough for me), I hope you have better luck than I did.



But man-oh-man there's just no way I'd be experimenting on a marring-free black b-body. OK, OK....it's winter and you don't have any other way to wash so I guess I don't have any better solution to offer :o



Anyhow...as for the 476S, I did an ONR wash/476S application on my Blazer right before I sold it with no issues. But the Blazer was already what most people would call "clean" before I ONRed it. Make *certain* you really do get all the dirt off or else the 476S application will loosen the residual dirt enough to turn your wax applicator into sandpaper, especially with 476S being a sorta hard wax that takes a bit of applying compared to some other LSPs.
 
All very good advice, thanks guys I really appreciate it,....



Unfortunately you have made me even more nervous than before. So much to consider. Worst part about the SS is B-Body stands for Big-Body, so if I make a mistake its going to cost me another 30 hours of my life. LOL



Well Ill just try to be extra careful.



I think what I am going to do is mix up ONR and water to do a wash and then take a small amount out of the bucket and put it into a spray bottle. Then I will spray down the pannel before I hit it with the sponge and ONR. Ill let it sit for a couple of seconds and then lightly wipe it down. Then I will dry it with a microfiber and finally I will carefully apply the 476s.



Not to get off topic but I have a coat of P21s on there from 3 weeks ago. I know that will only last another couple of days as soon as I get the car off my property and into the salt. I waned to use the 476s as my winter protecton; OR would I be better using ZCS?



DG
 
Bence said:
Yes, when I see similar things done on a dirty car, I feel the same. But who said that you have to do one pass with ONR???!!! How did you come to this conclusion?



Common sense usually says: wash it until it is clean.
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Exactly. Go over the section as many times using light pressure until it looks clean. Then you begin the drying process.



We had ice here about a week ago and they sanded the bridges and overpasses. This is what I've been dealing with since....



Single bucket method, changed the solution out about halfway through.



3072nasty_filth.jpg
 
I live down south where is not as cold. When my RX8 gets dust on it I use ONR from a pressure spray higher ratio ONR and wipe with MF quality towels. If it gets dirty I do a foam wash. Thats how I do it with no scratches.
 
Great thread. Although I don't have a black car, I do have my reservations about the ONR. I'm trying to read up on the ONR as much as possible as my cars usually don't get too dirty come summer and ONR may be a great wash method to keep from using a lot of water if not necessary.
 
ONR won't marr the paint because it "encapsulates" the dirt. That means that as dirt is lifted from your paint (through agitation with a wash mitt), it is suspended in the ONR solution until you dry. Then when you dry, the dirty water is absorbed into the nap of your microfiber towel.
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Can anyone really explain the "encapsulation" of ONR. I've read this a million times and we all seem to take it as the truth, but how does that happen? I just can't see how a speck of dirt becomes encapulated to the point it will not marr.



This probably get into a whole discussion on at the microscopic level - what is the shape of "dirt"? Is it spherical with sharp points (can't envision that being encapsulated); is it flat and somewhat soft (maybe the ONR can penetrate, further soften and take away the scratching capability).



I use ONR on my dusty car on a regular basis without serious problems. I like that it is fast, easy and I can do it in my garage in the morning. But until someone can explain how this encapsulation works, I think the first answer of "serious voodoo" is the best.
 
good question....but there are lots of things I cant explain, but they still work...



I was a HUGE ONR skeptic, and still cant do it exactly the way it says on the bottle :o, but it does work.....
 
Here is the explaination of how QEW (similar to ONR) works. I imagine it is similar for ONR, although ONR is wax free, while QEW does contain some wax.



The answers are from a Champion (the manufacturer of the product) representative:



Where does the dirt go?



The best answer I can give you is "into the towel or wash mitt and then into the bucket." The agents in Quick & Easy Wash are a blend of Surfactants, surface active agents in lay persons terms. These agents are already in use, and have been, in traditional car washing products used in both, hand wash and line wash systems. So the science is not new or unique, just the application. What sets our product apart from the crowd is mostly the lack of SUDS, amongst other and various and sundry other subtleties.



Suds are an unnecessary byproduct of soap. When Quick & Easy Wash is used in the washing process the suds are eliminated and the surfactants do the work. Part of the work they do is to envelope or suffocate the surface. Two things happen, the electrostatic or chemical bond between the dirt solids and or hydrocarbon solids (this covers most of the soils found on cars) is broken. Next, these soils are enveloped or wrapped and trapped into the surfactant and then into the washing media such as a towel or wash mitt. At rinse time, the towel is plunged into either a clean bucket of water ( using the two bucket method ) or back into the Quick & Easy Wash. In either case the same is true, the dirt solids succumb to the rinsing motion and use gravity to fall out of the washing media and fall to the bottom of the bucket. You can see this if you look into your bucket after doing a wash job.



How come it doesn't scratch?



In order to address potential scratching, the product contains a element that crosses the lines between polymers, lubricants, and waxes. It is true that if you bear down on a wet cloth over a dirty surface you will get scratches. However, our products make up will help to minimize the occurrence. So don't press down hard, with any washing product. Let's face it, scratching can occur even on a totally clean surface with a poor selection of washing media. Chose and dedicate washing cloths or mitts to a specific task and use them for nothing else. My current best pick for washing media is material called Microfiber, it is easy to find and we are working presently with an importer/manufacturer to bring it to our line of products, but that's another topic for another time.
 
Danspeed1 said:
I get my grout sponges from lowes.... They sell proline



Dan
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I got six of them just now, along with my orange "homer bucket", red grit guard, and gallon jug of ONR. :bow
 
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