I finally have the almighty Zaino
- Thread starter Jngrbrdman
- Start date
Jngrbrdman
New member
Do the Zaino Zealots really believe that they can only use the Zaino QD between coats? Surely any non carnauba QD would work just as well. Even Klasse, Platinum and Blackfire (all of whom have QDs formulted for the sealant) don't direct that you only use their QD. I use Platinum's QD on everything whether it is UPP I'm using or SG. I use it on em all.
This inconsistancy in how long to let the product cure is disturbing as well. What makes the third coat cure faster than the first coat? That just doesn't make sense. Zaino is the first product I've ever heard about that claims that it is more efficient with each layer. If you get up to enough layers does it cure instantly?
I'm trying to be objective about this, but the more I read the more I start to understand. Zaino is definately not for the uneducated enthusiast. I wouldn't ever suggest Z to someone who just started out detailing as the first sealant to use. I've been doing this for 6 years now and my head is already spinning. :lol Thank God for Autopia, though. All the Zaino threads I've been ignoring for the last 2 years are finally coming in handy. :bigups
This inconsistancy in how long to let the product cure is disturbing as well. What makes the third coat cure faster than the first coat? That just doesn't make sense. Zaino is the first product I've ever heard about that claims that it is more efficient with each layer. If you get up to enough layers does it cure instantly?
I'm trying to be objective about this, but the more I read the more I start to understand. Zaino is definately not for the uneducated enthusiast. I wouldn't ever suggest Z to someone who just started out detailing as the first sealant to use. I've been doing this for 6 years now and my head is already spinning. :lol Thank God for Autopia, though. All the Zaino threads I've been ignoring for the last 2 years are finally coming in handy. :bigups
imported_memnuts
New member
Jngrbrdman said:Do the Zaino Zealots really believe that they can only use the Zaino QD between coats? Surely any non carnauba QD would work just as well. Even Klasse, Platinum and Blackfire (all of whom have QDs formulted for the sealant) don't direct that you only use their QD. I use Platinum's QD on everything whether it is UPP I'm using or SG. I use it on em all.
This inconsistancy in how long to let the product cure is disturbing as well. What makes the third coat cure faster than the first coat? That just doesn't make sense. Zaino is the first product I've ever heard about that claims that it is more efficient with each layer. If you get up to enough layers does it cure instantly?
I'm trying to be objective about this, but the more I read the more I start to understand. Zaino is definately not for the uneducated enthusiast. I wouldn't ever suggest Z to someone who just started out detailing as the first sealant to use. I've been doing this for 6 years now and my head is already spinning. :lol Thank God for Autopia, though. All the Zaino threads I've been ignoring for the last 2 years are finally coming in handy. :bigups
It is "best" to use Z6 between coats of Z2/Z5 that are being applied that day (ZFX) or the next day. Any no carnauba, non-silicone and non alcohol containing QD will do for daily QD'ing and this is probably true for layering. But why buy a $12 -$16 sealant and decrease its performance ( bonding) with a $3 QD. :nixweiss.
Curing: 24 hrs if using Z1 and Z2/5. One coat per day. Not hard to understand. Any opinionated variation is just that... an opinion.
If using ZFX allow each coat to dry 20min -1hr curing is complete. Apply next ZFX enhanced Z2/5 coats - 3 coats max / day. Chemistry: The more bonding sites (substrate increased by previous layer) the higher the probability of cross-linking leading to faster curing. Again not rocket science.
What people tend to overlook in the instructions, including myself the first time I used Zaino, is the importance of the pre-protection ( Zaino) application finish PREP. This is emphasized in the Zaino directions but requires work. This "PREP" part maybe a problem for those who need instant gratification, no garage, no detailing expertice and over-expectation of what a sealant like Zaino will accomplish. This is probably why Zaino isn't sold at Wally World, Pep Boys, etc. Can you imagine the :scared: when someone washes all that make-up off their car and applies Zaino without correcting the surface imperfections.:shocked:
The irony is that after the initial hard work the maintainance is sooo easy with proper technique for washing, QD'ing, dusting, etc.
I don't get the confusion at all. Sal makes his directons really clear and precise, so I know his application process sounds extensive.
If you use Z1... all you do is apply Z1, then apply Z2 immediately over it. Let it dry (takes anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour, depending on weather) and wipe it off. Then wait 24 hours before applying another layer of Z2. The same goes for Klasse SG... you need to wait a day for it cure and crosslink. Some people apply 3 coats of SG back to back... you can do the same with Zaino, but each layer just soften the previous layer... like Klasse.
If you use ZFX... mix ZFX with Z2, apply it, and let it dry 5 minutes to an hour. Do the Zaino drying test to see if its dry...
ZFX and thin coats help Zaino dry quicker. Then wipe it off. The maximum that you apply is 3 coats a day. So immediately after you wiped off your Zaino, you can start again. Apply, let dry, remove. Apply, let dry, remove.
If you do the ZFX method with Klasse... (apply and remove 3 layers a day), it would be different. ZFX immediately cures the polymer, and quickens drying time.
Lastly, lets not confuse DRY with CURE. DRYING is afer you apply the product, and you're waiting for it to dry (as in not be wet) before removal... 5 minutes to an hour depending on weather. CURE is after you remove the product, and it's the time when a polymer crosslinks and bonds with the paint. With ZFX, there is an instant cure time.
And with QD's, I don't use Z6 between coats. I only use it afterwards. And I wouldn't substitute Z6 with FI or any non-wax QD between coats. Pure synthetics require an oil-free surface.
If you use Z1... all you do is apply Z1, then apply Z2 immediately over it. Let it dry (takes anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour, depending on weather) and wipe it off. Then wait 24 hours before applying another layer of Z2. The same goes for Klasse SG... you need to wait a day for it cure and crosslink. Some people apply 3 coats of SG back to back... you can do the same with Zaino, but each layer just soften the previous layer... like Klasse.
If you use ZFX... mix ZFX with Z2, apply it, and let it dry 5 minutes to an hour. Do the Zaino drying test to see if its dry...
ZFX and thin coats help Zaino dry quicker. Then wipe it off. The maximum that you apply is 3 coats a day. So immediately after you wiped off your Zaino, you can start again. Apply, let dry, remove. Apply, let dry, remove.
If you do the ZFX method with Klasse... (apply and remove 3 layers a day), it would be different. ZFX immediately cures the polymer, and quickens drying time.
Lastly, lets not confuse DRY with CURE. DRYING is afer you apply the product, and you're waiting for it to dry (as in not be wet) before removal... 5 minutes to an hour depending on weather. CURE is after you remove the product, and it's the time when a polymer crosslinks and bonds with the paint. With ZFX, there is an instant cure time.
And with QD's, I don't use Z6 between coats. I only use it afterwards. And I wouldn't substitute Z6 with FI or any non-wax QD between coats. Pure synthetics require an oil-free surface.
Jngrbrdman said:This inconsistancy in how long to let the product cure is disturbing as well. What makes the third coat cure faster than the first coat? That just doesn't make sense. Zaino is the first product I've ever heard about that claims that it is more efficient with each layer. If you get up to enough layers does it cure instantly?
No, no, no, no. You're confusing drying with curing!
ZFX cures instantly. Z2 alone cures in 24 hours. There are no inconsistancies. That's it.
If you're asking about dry time, then it depends on weather. Just do the drying test... swipe your finger over the applied Z. If it smears, it's not dried. If it doesn't, go ahead and remove.
CURE = time you have to wait before applying another layer
DRY = time you have to wait before removing a product
imported_Intermezzo
New member
Jngrbrdman said:This inconsistancy in how long to let the product cure is disturbing as well. What makes the third coat cure faster than the first coat? That just doesn't make sense. Zaino is the first product I've ever heard about that claims that it is more efficient with each layer. If you get up to enough layers does it cure instantly?
It doesn't make sense to me either. I think your best bet would be to stay away from integrating advice from other forums with the advice given here. Advice I've gotten from Autopia has been for the most part, reliable and consistent.
It's not as complicated as it sounds. I explained the directions once to my little sister and she got it down pat on her first try.
Jngrbrdman
New member
Keep in mind that I don't have any ZFX. These tests are going to be non ZFX tests. If ZFX is necessary to get any kind of result then I'm going to have to put off the testing. Was this new Zaino formulated specificly for use with ZFX??
I understand the difference bewteen dry and cure. Remember, I've been using SG for quite awhile now.
I was just getting confused by other things.
I understand the difference bewteen dry and cure. Remember, I've been using SG for quite awhile now.
I was just getting confused by other things.
tkr128
New member
Wow...now I'm getting confused!
I'd just apply the Z1 on and then apply Z2/Z5 on, then let it dry. It usually dries by the time I get done applying it to the whole car, but different weather conditions affect it. Test it out, if you swipe your finger across the panel and it comes clear, you can start removing the Zaino, if it smears, let it dry for a little longer then do the test again. After you remove, use Z6. You don't have to use the Z6, but I find it makes the paint slicker. That's it! Wait 24 hours if you want to put on another coat.
I don't think ZFX will affect the result, it just allows you to get in 3 coats in one day. I'm sure you don't have to use ZFX with the new Zaino, using Z1 as a base will work.
I hope this helps you out a bit, if not...oh well.
I'd just apply the Z1 on and then apply Z2/Z5 on, then let it dry. It usually dries by the time I get done applying it to the whole car, but different weather conditions affect it. Test it out, if you swipe your finger across the panel and it comes clear, you can start removing the Zaino, if it smears, let it dry for a little longer then do the test again. After you remove, use Z6. You don't have to use the Z6, but I find it makes the paint slicker. That's it! Wait 24 hours if you want to put on another coat.
I don't think ZFX will affect the result, it just allows you to get in 3 coats in one day. I'm sure you don't have to use ZFX with the new Zaino, using Z1 as a base will work.
I hope this helps you out a bit, if not...oh well.
JasonC8301
New member
Wow, nice thread to read, at least for me.
With all this debate. I'm going to send you my ZFX Jngrbrdman. Use it as you see fit, then send it back. I think I got enough in there to treat 12-14 ounces of Z. I'll even toss in a mixing bottle. I'll send it out Saturday....
With all this debate. I'm going to send you my ZFX Jngrbrdman. Use it as you see fit, then send it back. I think I got enough in there to treat 12-14 ounces of Z. I'll even toss in a mixing bottle. I'll send it out Saturday....
Jngrbrdman
New member
Getting in multiple coats in one day doesn't interest me. The other products I'm testing it against need a day to cure anyway so it does me no good to accelerate the Zaino cure time.
Is it correct that Z2 and Z5 are an either/or kind of thing? This will be tested on our champange Accord so I guess you could consider that a light color. Z2 is the product I should use I believe, yes?
EDIT: Wow. Jason, you are a king of men.
:bow :bow Just let me know what I owe you for the use of your ZFX and I'll send it to ya. Also, anything I have access to is yours to pilliage if you would like to try anything. :bigups Thanks for making testing Zaino possible for me.
Is it correct that Z2 and Z5 are an either/or kind of thing? This will be tested on our champange Accord so I guess you could consider that a light color. Z2 is the product I should use I believe, yes?
EDIT: Wow. Jason, you are a king of men.
:bow :bow Just let me know what I owe you for the use of your ZFX and I'll send it to ya. Also, anything I have access to is yours to pilliage if you would like to try anything. :bigups Thanks for making testing Zaino possible for me. imported_RadMon
New member
Here are the instructions directly from the Zaino site:
Notice how they explicity state that Z-6 is not only useful from an aesthetic point of view but also for the application process!
I think one thing people get confused about is the waiting times regarding whether or not ZFX is used. Here are more Zaino comments on that:
Notice how they explicity state that Z-6 is not only useful from an aesthetic point of view but also for the application process!
I think one thing people get confused about is the waiting times regarding whether or not ZFX is used. Here are more Zaino comments on that:
Jngrbrdman
New member
Why doesn't Sal just make a formula of Zaino that already includes ZFX in it? Then we wouldn't have to worry about the mixing and the waiting and all that stuff. None of the other sealants have this "flash cure accelerator" product. Has anyone experimented and seen the difference between adding another layer right after another without ZFX as compared to using the ZFX?
Jngrbrdman
New member
Ah... What if he were to offer both? Would that just get confusing? I guess its easier from a production standpoint to produce just one version and then market the accelerants seperatly.
I actually think I'm going to be fine without the ZFX the more I think about it. I don't need to put on more than one coat a day because I'm just testing it at this point. If its a product that I decide to buy and use then I'll probably get the ZFX so I can go nuts with it. Jason, it was awesome of you to offer it, but I think I'll be ok without it for now. :bigups
I actually think I'm going to be fine without the ZFX the more I think about it. I don't need to put on more than one coat a day because I'm just testing it at this point. If its a product that I decide to buy and use then I'll probably get the ZFX so I can go nuts with it. Jason, it was awesome of you to offer it, but I think I'll be ok without it for now. :bigups
JasonC8301
New member
I'll send it anyway. I won't be using ZFX much anyway. If I do find the need to use ZFX, I can open my second kit with a fresh vial of ZFX (Thanks ejant for the kit!.)
I'll send it out saturday, use it, test, critique it, then send it back. I'll send along the box with it (I used the other three mixing bottles with the old Z, ended up throwing them out due to the old Z sticking to the sides of the bottle like glue) for the sake of the instructions.
Jason
I'll send it out saturday, use it, test, critique it, then send it back. I'll send along the box with it (I used the other three mixing bottles with the old Z, ended up throwing them out due to the old Z sticking to the sides of the bottle like glue) for the sake of the instructions.
Jason
Jngrbrdman said:
You can use both if you like. The Z5 has some mild swirl filling ability (but it is not an oily glaze) so you can layer the Z5 until you are satisfied with the lack of visible swirl marks, then top with with a layer of Z2 if desired. Z2 has a bit more gloss but both supposedly have the same durability, etc. so you can just leave it all Z5 if you are satisfied with the look.
Since I am sure your vehicle is probably properly clayed and most if not all swirl marks removed already via SMR or whatever, you can probably just use all Z2. Unless you want to assess Z5's swirl mark hiding ability? Just make sure you get ALL of the oils off from any polishes before using Z.
You can't have Z2/Z5 premixed with ZFX because you will just get a bottle of solid rock-hard polymer. That is why if you use ZFX in the mixing bottle, you need to use it up and wash the mixing bottle out within 6 hours or so. Otherwise, the mixing bottle is toast, being full of solidified polymer.
I wouldn't place too much credence to the Z zealots on other boards. Some of their practices and beliefs about Z sound bizarre. Zaino is failrly straightforward in use and not much different than your UPP or SG. The only difference is that for only the very first layer, you need to use Z1 and then apply Z5 or Z2 immediately on top. After the first layer, just use the Z5 or Z2. After drying, it buffs off easily. You don't need the 2 towel method like proposed for SG. So in some respects, Z may be even less complicated to use than SG. It is just some people blow it out of proportion about the use of Z with all the steps.