I am just concerned about the protection......

IMO, it is actually some of the Senior Members that are the root of this whole klasse/zaino thing. It is the Senior Senior Members that try and maintain order/fair balance here.



I think we all need to remember that you can get amazing results with cheap meguiars 3 step or the expensive Zymol estate waxes. It is probably 85% technique, 15% product! And the most important thing is not what everyone else on the forum thinks about your car or products, it is the feeling of content and joy when squinting (because of the shine) at your car after a hard day's work!



I realized how unfriendly this forum can be when I first posted asking for info on the ingredients on zaino to try and prove to a zymol user that it doesnt contain any silicone. Then, I REALLY got it when I questioned the ingredients in z6. Funny thing is that I loyally use Zaino because of the results I have received, but cannot ask any questions about the product without getting trashed for it. I have seen it happen with others here too.



I am in the medical/pharmaceutical field...maybe it is time we start calling products by their generic names (eg, polymer sealant) instead of their brand names (eg, Klasse, Zaino).
 
This is my attempt at duplicating Z6.



Juice of 6 large limes.

1/2 cup tequilla.

12 cloves garlic, minced.

6 green onions, chopped.

Salt and pepper.



Mix this up, and put it in an empty Z6 bottle. Then, go to the store and buy some flank steak. Rinse the steaks off and put them in a large ziplock freezer bag. Pore the Z6 mixture over the steaks and marinate in the frigde for 48 hours. Then grill the steaks over a hot grill until medium.



Although this Z6 is no good for QD, it makes great CA (carne asada.)
 
Based on recommendations from this board and now from personal experience, the following is what I bought that works well for me:



- the Klasse twins (AIO and SG)

- several foam applicators

- several good microfibre towels

- Wizard water bandit (love this thing)

- couple of big cotton towels (Charisma brand works great)

- Clay bar (this really helped on black Supra)

- Meguire's (sp?) final inspection

- 303 aerospace protectant



Again, I am no expert but this works well for me. A search found a number of detailed tips on how to do it all. A great tip for me is to put about an ounce of product in a small squirt bottle to not use too much Klasse. I decided not to do any swirl removing on my first go at it; I was afraid I might screw it up more than helping. Sorry, I don't remember the links to all the tips I found.



Mike
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi [/i]
<strong class='bbc'> I don't know the motivation but it seems like people are becoming a little too concerned over what people are using rather than helping people with achieving the perfect shine. Reccommending someone try a product is one thing.he detailing forum. I think you'll also find that people are not going to get PO at your suggestions. I think you echo a LOT of members sentiments. Many of the senior members, I believe, have stopped posting because of the very thing you speak of. This forum will survive and continue on and suggestions like yours are definately constructive to the community as a whole, whether they're implemented or not. Thats the beauty of this place is everyones voice is heard. [/b]</blockquote>
Look, if I offended you with my observations and experiences with Klasse, then I apologize. I thought this thread would end a long time ago but it seems you keep feeling the need to defend Klasse again and again. Motivation?? I don't have any hidden motivation for reporting my Klasse results. I have no vested interest in Z being superior to Klasse. Heck, if it were up to me, I wish I was having great results with Klasse, then I wouldn't have to strip both my cars and start over with Zaino.

You're right, the beauty of this place is that everyone's voice is heard and people should feel free to report what their results are without fear of making some sensitive forum members get defensive. I first used Klasse upon the recommendations of this forum and also because my impression was that Klasse users slightly outnumbered Z users. Now, I'm a little unhappy with Klasse and I posted why I'm unhappy. If I was a strong believer in Klasse and someone posted their unhappiness with Klasse, I certainly wouldn't get defensive about it. I would just want to know more. I feel sorry for people that feel the need to "kill the messenger" and try to turn a deaf ear on anything they don't want to hear.
 
Hi Friends.

Seems we have gotten in to a discussion of the forum itself. If I may be so bold as to summarize the basic principles that I have seen at work at this forum, which principles make the forum special and unique:

1. No personal comments except for complements
2. No evaluations of other members' character or integrety, except for positive observations.
3. Keep an open mind
4. A focus on what works, no matter how it may or may not conform to our current car care practices.
5. There is no need for controversy and controvery does not move the ball forward. New <em class='bbc'>information[/i] IS highly useful in moving the ball forward. Controversy, in and of itself, is just two or more people <em class='bbc'>personalizing[/i] a discussion that should be objective. An exchange of different experiences and different conclusions does not have to contain the emotion that is usually present in a controversy. Two or more people civily exchanging information and experiences leads to progress.
6. The members try to tone down religious convictions ("Zaino is the one and only;" "Klassee beats all hands down").
7. Recognize that we do not want to get stuck in an orthodoxy and want to be constantly moving forward, discovering new and better techniques and products, but not throwing out proven methods, just because they are "old." It is simply a quesion of what works best, whether old or new.
8. The members are helpful to each other.
9. The members are courteous and polite.
10. The majority of members, despite their seniority, do not act superior to other members, particular new members. Every one was a "newbie" once.
11. The members introduce humor frequently.
12. The members make fun of themselves and, if they occasionally make fun of others, they only make fun of their friends on the site.
13. Humor is actually humor and is not mean spiritedness masquerading as humor.
14. There are plenty of sites available where you can have a good fight, or an ugly fight, for that matter. This is not one of them.
15. The reasons members are here are to:

- advance their own and our collective knowledge about detailing so we can either (depending on our objectives) a. create cars whose appearance is mind boggling, or b. create cars that look good and that are protected, all as efficiently as possible.

- have some comraderie and participate in a community.


I do not think this list is comprehensive and if I took some more time, I could write it better. This is an "off-the -cuff" effort.

The above principles are not my ideas. They are, rather, what I believe I saw when I first started on this site. I did not create these great principles. They were here when I got here. I doubt that the old members sat down and figured out these principles. I suspect these principles are merely the manifestation of the character of the forum's early members.

I believe we should honor the good heart of the founders and help maintain the principles that they established, not through their words, but through their actions. And, as we know, actions speak louder than words.

My 2 cents.
 
Looks like we now have a judge for Autopia....hehehe :D

<em class='bbc'>(Wacks my head with the wooden hammer thingy)[/i]
 
Blackmirror, to answer your question, if you decide to try out Klasse the AIO and the SG is what you need. I (along with others) use Blitz as a carnuba topper which add nice depth to your Klasse).



Others: I offer you this. I worked in 1 drop of AIO on my windshield and it still beads (after a month). AIO inherently beads, if it does not on your clearcoat you need to factor in something else is going on too :)
 
Hey Darbh, am I a good judge of character or what? Hehe! As I've mentioned earlier, you are one class act. Your words are very true and should be followed as much as possible. You may be one of the new found fathers of the forum. Keep up the good work.
 
Thank you all so much. Your kind words were totally unexpected -- though, in retrospect, I should have expected them considering the character of those on this site.

As I mentioned, I was trying to write down what I saw. The credit goes to the original and senior members who <em class='bbc'>lived[/i] these values, so I could see them.

Lastly, my hat is off to those of you who showed how big you are by publicly appologizing for any error -- even if minor. It takes a very special person to do that. Some believe you have to "keep up an image" and that if you admit error you lose respect. They do not understand that by taking responcibility, you <em class='bbc'>gain[/i] respect. And, you have gained that respect, from all of us.
 
It rained last night....it's been over week and the caddy is still beading with that additional coat of SG I put on it, finally. Someone wrote me and said they washed their car with dawn and it removed the KLASSE. I am gonna wash with dawn next week just for kicks and grins.......I will keep you posted.
 
I did a Dawn wash, rinsed it thoroughly and the car still beaded very well in the pouring rain for two hours. Dawn obviously does not affect polymer or acrylic coatings as well as it does wax. I had three coats applied so maybe that's the difference with the person who wrote you. Plus my car shined way more than it has using Meguiars or Mothers car wash. Maybe the Meguiars or Mothers leave a film that dulls the Klasse finish.
 
Is your car new? New clearcoat does bead water......



Anyhow he wrote me this ".....Sure enough, after the Dawn

wash, the car was squeaky clean. Not a trace of Klasse anywhere. In fact,

while I was rinsing, the roof of my car formed a pool of water that

completely covered the roof for about 2-3 seconds and then slowly started to

sheet off. It was absolutely amazing. I've never seen what water would do

on a car that was squeaky clean and had paint that was in good condition.

It was like the roof had a perfect glossy shine for a few seconds before the

water sheeted off. The water pretty much sheeted off like that really

slowly to different degrees for all parts of the car, depending on how

horizontal the surface was. The more horizontal, the slower it sheeted off......"
 
I Dawn washed my Zed car a couple months ago. My theory was that Dawn washing every once in a while would remove any oily type build up. The car looked "funny" afterward -- a tiny bit "dull." I emailed Sal. He said that the Dawn could leave a detergent film. I washed with Z7 a couple times and the problem went away.



DK, let us know your experience with Dawn washing a polished car.
 
Yeah, for me, Original Dawn leaves a film that makes the water sheet. I would recommend you to wash with a car wash (I used Meguiar's Gold Class) after the Dawn.
 
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