How to "see" for detailing

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imported_doug

New member
Somehow or other I have this huge need to share what I learn. The learning itself is a joy - now that I am no longer "learning" to get a grade or a paycheck, I get to learn whatever the heck I feel like learning. And I'm really having fun learning more and more about paint care. But I also know that writing it down to explain it to someone else forces me to get the concepts even clearer in my own mind - and I like hearing from people who appreciate my efforts. SO - I decided to start formalizing this, and over time I'm going to publish my "paint care bible" on the web, for anyone to see and for whatever its worth. I'm not trying to compete with David or anyone else - I'm doing it for me.



The other day I wrote about my re-testing of the California Car Duster, and because I had the "obsession lights" out I noticed some flaws on my spoiler (not caused by the duster.) I wanted to find out how effectively I could photograph them, and realized the same things that make the photo possible are the things that make actually seeing them better possble as well. SO - I wrote this article on "seeing" - which is the first of what I hope to be several articles I'll compile over time in a single website on detailing. (I have no intention of trying to replace this board!!)



P.S. - I'm not trying to compete with other sites. I just have this need to tell it "my way." I think I have a different perspective than many of the other sites I've seen. Other sites have excellent information and make good recommendations, but they frequently fail to explain why. I very much like to understand why things happen - i.e., why does 3M SMR leve a haze if you don't work it hard enough, or why a California Water Blade can scratch your car even though the ad says it doesn't scratch. How do cars get swirl marks after all? The better you uinderstand the answers to these questions, the better your paint care regimen will become.



I appreciate any and all feedback, publicly or privately.
 
Excellent write-up! I think you should be voted most anal and careful detailer... and this is exactly what my front bumper looks like too! My PC is too big for that...



indoors_lights_only.JPG
 
After being an appraiser for 3 years, I officially have what's known as "the curse" in the industry. Ask my wife, it is indeed a curse. The ability to "see" correctly often leads to conversations on the road about gold (and other colors - silver, red, and other metallics come to mind) mismatches caused by body shops not taking the time to do a job "perfectly".



Instead of "I see dead people", I can say, "I see mismatches, surface scratches, and other imperfections".



I hope to use this "curse" as I head into starting my own business as a detailer. If I don't see the swirls, dadgum it - no one will!



Had you been the one to teach me how to "see", I don't know if I would thank you or curse you. ;)



This is one example that demonstrates that ignorance can be bliss.
 
A very interesting and illuminating article. Your article seems to be more of a philosophical quest than a search for an answer to a specific question. And is all the better for it (although maybe that is purely my interpretation).



The search for a system to explain and inform should be carried on further and added to, which I am sure other members which much greater technical knowledge than me, will do so.



I would add a number 5 to your list



#5. Greater knowledge of interaction of abrasion from MF/foam etc on paint



Steven
 
This also raises the issue of black cars being harder to keep clean than say a silver one. Under the harsh lighting conditions mentioned, all cars should show the same damage.



SoTex, your comments remind me of a programme on TV from a few years ago, where they were interviewing a guy from Rolls Royce. His job was to check the bodywork and paint in the factory before releasing the cars to the dealers. They showed him inspecting seemingly perfect paintwork, only to place stickers over the car where reworking was required. They asked him what he thought when he saw normal cars in the street. He said it was painful, because all he could see was the imperfections in all cars. I am not sure I would like to be like that, but I would like to know someone like that, especially a detailer.



Steven
 
SoTex said:
After being an appraiser for 3 years, I officially have what's known as "the curse" in the industry. Ask my wife, it is indeed a curse. The ability to "see" correctly often leads to conversations on the road about gold (and other colors - silver, red, and other metallics come to mind) mismatches caused by body shops not taking the time to do a job "perfectly".



Instead of "I see dead people", I can say, "I see mismatches, surface scratches, and other imperfections".



I hope to use this "curse" as I head into starting my own business as a detailer. If I don't see the swirls, dadgum it - no one will!



Had you been the one to teach me how to "see", I don't know if I would thank you or curse you. ;)



This is one example that demonstrates that ignorance can be bliss.
Click to expand...



WOW, i have the same curse, i will be driving with my wife and see a car on the road and tell her that is a 2hr repair with a blend and a r&i. It got to the point my wife told me to shut up. Detailing is even worse, i have seen a s500 with swirls all over it in a parking lot, i went up to the owner and asked him if the swirls came with the car or was it an option, he laughed and i gave him my card, one year later he is still a customer. Being an adjuster and auto tech you will have a slight advantage detailing cars, you already know the in & outs, now it's just time to perfect them.

NYD
 
BW said:
Excellent write-up! I think you should be voted most anal and careful detailer..
Click to expand...



Boy there is an election I don't want to win! :scared



Seriously - I am NOT anal as a detailer. I don't mask stuff, I don't use 3 buckets to wash, even have trouble sticking with a single panel between rinses. I have wax residue on my trim, my wheels aren't waxed, and there are ALWAYS swirls on the car I choose to live with. I bought the car to drive it.



But I am seriously driven by the intellectual challenge of KNOWING what is right. Once I'm aware of the way things work, whther or not I choose to change my behaviour feels like a wiser decision. And where changes in my behavior can make big differences I sometimes do them. The black car is the best teacher. One of things it taught me was that, even with my being more and more and more careful to avoid swirl-inducing stuff, there is no such thing as not getting them at all, and I'm still way more careless than I wish I was. If I didn't get so damn distracted and impatient, I would wash my car with multiple buckets, mits and rinses, and I would then do it again.



In other words, I want to be able to give correct advice (I hate being wrong) - even though I'm not always capable of taking it!



Cheers!
 
Black - harder to keep clean, shows scratches

silver and gold - hide dust, harder to match/blend the paint

red - harder to keep clean than some, can fade (some paints), harder to match than other non-metallics

white - overall pretty good (notice my signature) - stays cooler than other colors, easier to match than most, hides slight imperfections (due to brightness), hides dust well



just my .02
 
OK.... then maybe not. ;) But honestly, that was a very good post. I think its great for an Autopian to actually see, inspect, and understand detailing so well! Even if you're "careless" by your definition, I'm sure you are a lot more careful than some of us here.



In fact, sometimes I wish I had some more "carelessness." It's hard for me to live with the fact that my cars have swirls, pits, scratches, and marrs.



Really an excellent article you've got here!



carguy said:




Boy there is an election I don't want to win!



Seriously - I am NOT anal as a detailer. I don't mask stuff, I don't use 3 buckets to wash, even have trouble sticking with a single panel between rinses. I have wax residue on my trim, my wheels aren't waxed, and there are ALWAYS swirls on the car I choose to live with. I bought the car to drive it.



But I am seriously driven by the intellectual challenge of KNOWING what is right. Once I'm aware of the way things work, whther or not I choose to change my behaviour feels like a wiser decision. And where changes in my behavior can make big differences I sometimes do them. The black car is the best teacher. One of things it taught me was that, even with my being more and more and more careful to avoid swirl-inducing stuff, there is no such thing as not getting them at all, and I'm still way more careless than I wish I was. If I didn't get so damn distracted and impatient, I would wash my car with multiple buckets, mits and rinses, and I would then do it again.



In other words, I want to be able to give correct advice (I hate being wrong) - even though I'm not always capable of taking it!



Cheers!
Click to expand...
 
SoTex said:
Black - harder to keep clean, shows scratches

silver and gold - hide dust, harder to match/blend the paint

red - harder to keep clean than some, can fade (some paints), harder to match than other non-metallics

white - overall pretty good (notice my signature) - stays cooler than other colors, easier to match than most, hides slight imperfections (due to brightness), hides dust well



just my .02
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Actually, white does have some flaws. If you don't keep it clean, you start to see tar build up around the lower panels, around the mudguard area, etc. Also, the front end can have some too. In addition to that, they can turn yellowish over time if you don't take care of them. But there is a toss up for each color. Blacks show scratches, white cars show tar and mud more, etc.



Good article though. I try never to look at my car under a shop light. Then you see everything. You have to look at the car at the angle everyone else looks at the car. Or you will drive yourself nuts! :scared
 
I agree with you regarding white. However, for those reading these posts, we are less likely to let tar, etc. build up. White's flaw is what you state - shows heavy dirt/mud after downpours, shows larger chips (road rash), tar, etc.



Recently, I've owned a black Ford Ranger, black Infiniti G20, White I30, Silver Odyssey, and white Taurus (2).



Black looks best when clean (my opinion), but is a pain to keep clean. It is also hotter here in Texas and shows scratches.



I don't know if I'll ever own a black vehicle again unless it's garaged and not a daily driver.



I had a major problem with a shop trying to match the silver paint on our odyssey, so I am now turned off on silver.



Overall, white's been best to me (but is definitely not the best for showing off a deep shine).
 
The funny thing is that's why many of my friends like for me to go car shopping with them. They know I worked in a body shop and I can "see" something at a different level than they can. If you have worked in a body shop (e.g. Andre, myself) your ability to "see" is greatly enhanced.
 
Great article!



From a relative newbie perspective, I'm actually shocked to know that those kinds of flaws can (and do) exist on a "flawless" finish. I've got a dark car, and I refuse to go get lights like that because I'll cry when I see what my paint actually looks like.



In all, I learned to have realistic expectations for my finish, and to be more careful while caring for my paint.



Thanks for the article, carguy! :up



Dawn
 
Carguy: I agree with your statement of not explaining Why.

This may be a tough pursuit to explain all that can go wrong.

I for one have removed my "obsession lights" lol, from my garage. It almost makes me sick to see the paint flaws that clearly. Only when I do a paint touch up that I will put the lights to use. They are an effective tool, however too effective for daily use.

Alot of the threads, stories and recommendations are just fluff, no real substance to the majority of them. You are one of the few that wants to take it to the next level. I commend you for that, and will listen carefully to what you have to say.

Being part of this board is all about finding the best possible way of to take care of our cars. To what level is all a personal choice.

Right now I'm living, eating and sleeping it and my wife informs me there are places for guys like me. Yep I told her "Autopia"
 
CarGuy,



Excellent article!, in fact we were just discussing types of lighting that reveals swirls over at MDC Mobile detailing forum. Is that a halogen light? 500 watt? I havent found halogen to be as revealing as I would like. A yellow bug light spot light seems to do well also. I you observe the surface and look before and after where the brightest reflection is you will also see scratches better.



I have found that nothing beats afternoon sun for revealing swirls on the side of a car (where they seem to appear the most).



I have tried to find a portable light that would reveal any surface defects so I could learn and correct any process that was adding to them. My main objective is to find the best working and inspection process while I am buffing. I dont want to complete a job and find swirls in a different light.



I tried to find specific lights used by body shops, perhaps flourescent with different colors use to simulate daylight but havent found any.



Do you think the color of the light has different properties? Take for example the warehouse or gas station lights you mention (or parking garage, streetlights, etc)



Excellent choice of vehicles-the top 2 on my wish list. Although I dont think either one could pull away from my "Stang", lol
 
Great article!! I'm looking forward to reading more as you write them!! Amazing what lighting can show up on your car! I'm just thankful that we don't have to drive in those kinds of lighting conditions all the time or I would cry! :)



~V4M~
 
Great article, I look forward to future installments! I detailed car today in poor lighting and it was kinda frustrating. The car is just over a year old and is in pretty good shape and is metallic silver so hopefully when it goes into the bright sun it will look top notch. I’ll pick up on of those lights before my next detail.





SJS
 
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