honda or toyota?

LightngSVT said:
I grew up in an American car household and until I was 30 (2 years ago)...One thing I have alwasy wondered is why the "Big 3" (hey Im from the Detroit Area) have not tried to steal away designers, engineers, etc form the Japenese companies so that they can learn new proecesses and improve their vehile lines?....
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They do snitch a few people here and there and when they have corporate partnerships, Ford/Mazda, GM/Toyota, etc. there's some crosspollination but by and large you don't see major changes of style/approach/attitude.



It's actually not just auto manufacturing, all US industries that whine about "Japanese Quality" kicking their butts have the same issues.



IMHO it's all philosophical. The management styles, methodologies, cultures and behavior patterns of those companies are so deeply ingrained they miss the point. They can't even comprehend where they need to change, much less implement the changes. If they stole the best and brightest from some other outfit all they'd do is stifle them the same way they'd been crushing any hope of progress from the people they already have.



Typically, any changes that do happen occur very slowly as attrition removes the people causing roadblocks and, with any luck, replaces them with new blood and new ways of thinking.



Side note; Chrysler turned its R&D upside down and went form from K-cars and other peoples designs (old Jeeps) to Vipers, PTs, Magnums, new Jeeps, etc. after a huge internal power struggle that finally managed to install a French Formula 1 engineer in charge of things.





PC.
 
SpoiledMan said:
The VQ in this Nissan Murano I'm driving right now as a rental sure doesn't feel like it has gobs of torque. As a matter of fact, my Honda van seems like a racecar in comparison. It's a nice engine but I have *NEVER* heard pinging from any of my Honda cars no matter what kind of gas was in them. This thing pings regularly. I wont even mention the CVT tranny that's in it. :chuckle:
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246 lb-ft of torque @ 4,400 rpm for the Murano and 240 @ 4500 for the higher end Odysseys.

The VQ in the Z350 274 lb-ft @ 4,800 rpm
 
Depends on what kind of car your looking at.



I think Honda has nicer cars all around, but as far as trucks I think Toyota has got that formula down. :)



IMO I think of them two as some of the best/dependable cars made, based just on friend's/family's and my experiences with domestics and imports.



A little OT but Lexus's new IS250/350 are *VERY* nice. I would definately consider one just because of how comfortable I was in it. I was on cloud 9 :drool:
 
kgb said:
246 lb-ft of torque @ 4,400 rpm for the Murano and 240 @ 4500 for the higher end Odysseys.

The VQ in the Z350 274 lb-ft @ 4,800 rpm
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I was using the butt dyno. Strictly what the two engines "feel" like. OTOH the VQ is rather fuel thirsty too. The little trip computer hasn't made it over 17.x even on the highway no matter how nice I drive the thing. Nice engine but I just don't really find to be "all that."
 
Both are great, if new then Honda because of reasonably priced new and hold value extremely good, if used Toyota can find them much cheaper than Hondas and less miles. Both are really reliable.
 
I've owned both Honda's and Toyota's and the differences (as I see them are)



Honda == reliable, safe, slightly flimsy, engine's go for ever but you need to rev the hell out of them to get anything

Toyota == reliable, safe, solid, engine's have more mid-range and less power at the extreme



Both make good cars. I prefer Toyota. I like my cars solid. (And the 400bhp is nice as well!)
 
SpoiledMan said:
The VQ in this Nissan Murano I'm driving right now as a rental sure doesn't feel like it has gobs of torque. As a matter of fact, my Honda van seems like a racecar in comparison. It's a nice engine but I have *NEVER* heard pinging from any of my Honda cars no matter what kind of gas was in them. This thing pings regularly. I wont even mention the CVT tranny that's in it. :chuckle:
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Well I hate to shrug it off as anecdotal evidence from a rental, but I am going to. It's just as likely you could have grabbed a Pilot rental and it would have been a pile of junk. I've yet to be in a rental that wasn't in some way horribly abused. Same applies to the crummy mpg. The VQ is pretty average in terms of mpg - my 280hp/270tq vq gets 22 mpg religiously, not bad I think - of course the murano weighs 500 lbs more, so 17 probably isn't too far off. The 3.5l VQ has produced as much as 280lb of torque as low as 4,000 rpm - for a 6cly with 3.5l of dispacement that can be found in cars as cheap as $22k, it's a pretty 'torque-y' engine. If you can find me a sedan in the 25, 30, and 35k segment with as much low end torque as nissan/infiniti offerings, I will give you a cookie. :) I hate quoting mags, but 11 years in a row on Wards 10 best engines says something.



As for pinging, well do we really want to go there? We all have tons of anecdotal evidence of problems with cars. As much as I like Hondas they've had their share of problems too *cough* Accord/TL tranny *cough*.



Not trying to start an argument or anything. I like hondas, but I've yet to be in one that felt at all torque-y, it's not exactly something they're known for - sounds like you got a gem of an Odyssey.
 
Grassroots Motorsports Magazine took an Odyssey to the track (Barber Motorsports Track) where it did very well. They were so impressed they said they would consider taking it to a track event if it was't a minivan. Besides its performance, they could carry a whole bunch of stuff/crew and it was simply reliable. They had taken it to an autocross before that, where it bested the Porsche 356 and Jaguar E-Type (in their words, "two of history's best sports cars").
 
Hey, did you say Honda and rental in the same sentence? They don't do fleet sales to rental companies so good luck finding one.



Yeah, the Odyssey is that good. It's rather fun to drive. When we first got it neither me or the wife wanted it to drive everyday. After a couple weeks, we were making any old excuse to have it.



P.S. The second generation Legend's are on the rather torquey side.
 
They are both good brands. The interior of my Civic have some cheap feeling plastic and carpet but it's a decent car overall. My mom's Camry has a high quality interior, smooth ride, and smooth engine but it looks cliche and it doesn't come with a lot of standard features which i think should of came standard such as ABS and side airbags, both of which we had to pay for as options. But if you're considering Japanese brands only then you should take a look at Nissan. My dad's 2000 quest was value packed for the price he paid compared to the Odesseys and Siennas in that vintage. And it hasn't given us much problems except for regular maintenance.
 
SpoiledMan said:
Hey, did you say Honda and rental in the same sentence? They don't do fleet sales to rental companies so good luck finding one.
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No kidding? Weird, I had an Acura MDX rental in BC this year. Maybe Acura operates differently than Honda, although I that would be odd. As an aside I really liked the MDX. If I was going to buy an SUV it would probably be a contender.
 
Yeah cool ride and my wife wants one. I didn't say you *wouldn't* find one, I said good luck. They had to buy that MDX just like you or I would. I used to deal with one salesman for both Honda's and Acura's and he was an oldtimer in the dealer. The MDX is one of those Honda's that kept at or above window for a long run and that's one of the reasons we don't have one already. This far along(new design next year) we can just wait for the next one.
 
Picus said:
Yes. Same reason I'm a Nissan fan. The VQ engine has gobs of torque and is in almost every one of their cars from the Altima, to the Maxima, to the G35, to the M35. It's an incredible engine, and like Subaru they seem to be geared more towards performance and "fun to drive" than just reliable econo-boxes.
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The VQ runs out of power quickly in the higher rev range. I don't know why they continue to put it in "sports" cars since I have never found it very sporty. Sigh. What good marketing will do....
 
Corey Bit Spank said:
The VQ runs out of power quickly in the higher rev range. I don't know why they continue to put it in "sports" cars since I have never found it very sporty. Sigh. What good marketing will do....
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Edit. I thought better of taking this too far OT. All I will say is I own an RSX-S along with my G35, and a higher redline does not a sports car make. A flat curve from 2400-6600 is much more desirable than a curve that peaks and remains flat from only 5500-8000 redline. You might be talking about HP, in which case the VQ peaks around 5000, but there is no drop until within 100 rpms of redline. And please try to be a little less condscending with the marketing comments in the future. Remember, these are forums, and you don't know everything. Assuming everyone who likes the VQ has been fooled by Mr. Nismo is a little short-sighted.
 
You just can't disregard Mazda's present in the market. Especially when they are Honda's and Toyota's #1 competitor (to me they are at least). I just went to the Honda dealership to check out the new civics wow they are butt ugly compare to the Mazda3.
 
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