David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
No worries Alex. I have the utmost respect for Richie & Bob and I'm sure they meant no harm.
High Volume Meets Perfection !!! (S. Florida)
- Thread starter David Fermani
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autoconcierge
New member
Alexshimshimhae said:
When this was first posted, I was like........great cars that look great........then the B.S. Why the embellishment Dave? if you notice I said nothing for a LONGtime, however when the one guy questioned it and the smart a** answer came back well....
As for meaning harm, none intended but I have a zero tolerance for this stuff anymore from ANYone(as my recent posts have indicated on all the forums). What happened to putting up a car with no fluff added as in here is the car+ pics= honest write up? Dave I have been in the game quite a long time and can be quick when need be but 12 cars(with a wetsand in the mix for crying outloud) not to mention your high end clients were fine with working at thier house all night(and the jobs you did at home your neighbors were cool with that as well??).
There is no way you get that level of quality in that short a time frame..............can't happen, will not happen even with Todd on the team. I cannot figure out why for the life of me you said all this?what is the point? anyone who knows better starts to lose respect for the person claiming this procedure and time frame.
As for for not sharing(products & techniques this has been asked and answered as to why and you know it) I have helped MANY when contacted so take that out of the mix once and for all. The only thing I can come up with is you and Todd thought it would be funny to see how many newbies would lap this stuff up, if this statement causes you angst.......... I do not care.
I recieved no less than 13 PM's with guys observing the very SAME thing, so I guess we are all haters drinking the "haterade" and if those who said as much care to chime in do so now if not I understand as it will probably get ugly but I walk it like I talk it and brook no s**t.
It is time to stop all the embellishment on everything to the title's of write ups, to the making of statements which are distant relatives to the truth.
One more thing Dave, I cringed when I saw the Corvette wheel face down on the concrete with no blanket or pad of any kind.......shake yourself with the "Quickness".
Alexshimshimhae
New member
oof...I guess I hit a sore spot...
Perhaps I just looked at it differently than you did...and I'm guessing my assumptions were also, because otherwise I'd be hard-pressed to understand why you were mad:
My first take when I saw the post was that not all of the cars were a complete through and through job; but a light refresh.
Working efficiently, I can see how well maintained cars needed nothing more then a quick in and out would be done in 2-4 hours
All I'm saying is maybe conclusions were made a bit quick and harsh...
Then again you guys have been at it much longer so my apologies for speaking out of turn...
Perhaps I just looked at it differently than you did...and I'm guessing my assumptions were also, because otherwise I'd be hard-pressed to understand why you were mad:
My first take when I saw the post was that not all of the cars were a complete through and through job; but a light refresh.
Working efficiently, I can see how well maintained cars needed nothing more then a quick in and out would be done in 2-4 hours
All I'm saying is maybe conclusions were made a bit quick and harsh...
Then again you guys have been at it much longer so my apologies for speaking out of turn...
Richie Carbone said:
I don't post much anymore(old member long forgotten account old pw) but one thing I see with Barry Theal is how obnoxiously animated he is becoming. Huge photo logo - definition of "detail" thread starting just like Tod Helms used to etc. Great detail is great detail and barry does a nice job but Barry no matter how good he is, and he obviously is a nice job but I see threads of "wetsand rant" and while I can't tell for sure it seems he just want attention to himself.
With link that Richie carbone post here(which I just read), you can ever see David reflection in the door of the Bentley, its not even Barry! Who posts picture of other peoples work regardless of "partner" and calls it their own? It doesn't matter if permission was given, that may be the level of detail you get but thats not Barry's work - using other person work as yours - false advertising? Another thing I noticed and this could be coincidence is that Barry's site, which had more of David Fermani work on it(Light Blue Porsche maybe others) is now down.
I really don't like the idea of people using other people's work, permission or not. Its look Barry is trying everything to get "look at me!" type of attention and not being completely crystel clear of whatever relationship he is creating, and then he almost get defensive and rude(see thread link from Richie) when people ask him to explain after he makes a "wait till you see this" statement? That makes no sense to me and makes him look like he is lying (but this is going on what he present to public on forum). David Fermani's older work is not Barry Theals claimed work - this is fact.
For record, I personally know neither and only go by what is put in front of my screens, but I do really appreciate/enjoy Davids contribution to help other member with results.
loveyourcar
New member
So we now all see it just a bunch of lies and ********. Wow! I run a real detail shop, go play...
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
Auto Concierge said:
Bob – I really don’t think you read this entire thread and my responses. If you did, it would reveal that I never claimed doing full paint corrections on all these vehicles; but yet you incorrectly assumed that I did? If you feel I’m lying please quote my post where this was mentioned. Most of these vehicles had already been corrected/cleaned/protected and were brought to me as part of my maintenance program I openly and repeatedly offer. As a matter of fact I actually have the E-Coupe at my house right now for another maintenance treatment. I can post a picture with adequate documentation proving this if you’d like.
Embellishment??? Sorry, but that’s called mar•ket•ing! Last time I checked I don’t have to request authorization to post a thread to you or anyone else’s specifications. I’m not forcing anyone to read my posts. You have the choice to click on my threads or not to. As a matter a fact there’s an option on most forums to set someone on “ignore”. Feel free to take full advantage of it if my marketing is too painful. Geesh.
I also don’t need to explain when, where and how I detailed any of these cars but I’ll go above and beyond once again. Hopefully this will sink in this time:
Friday:
Rolls – ONR / SRP / OCW / Spruce Interior
Bentley – ONR / SRP / OCW / Spruce
Aston – ONR / OCW / Spruce
E-Coupe – M205 / BFWD / Spruce
Porsche – ONR / SRP / OCW / Spruce
Mustang – ONR / M205 / BFWD
Vette – ONR / Clay / Tape
Saturday:
Boat - ONR / M105 / M205 on dark sections & M205 remaining / Opti-Coat
Range Rover – ONR / OCW / Full Interior
Golf Cart – ONR / SRP / OCW
BMW Bike – ONR / SRP / OCW
Sunday:
5 Series – (New Car Prep) / ONR / M105 Hood & Trunk / 85RD / Opti-Coat
3 Series – ONR / M105 Exterior Correction Only / BFWD
Mini Cooper – ONR / SRP / OCW / Spruce
Escalade – ONR / M205 / BFWD / Spruce
Vette – Sand & Spot buffing / Product testing
It doesn’t take a detailer with a math degree to calculate that these cars can and were done in this time frame. If anyone (including the 13 people that PM’d Bob) would like to speak up regarding their or our ability to do or not do these simple operations to these cars I’m all ears. It’s really not all that difficult. 2 vehicles can easily be completed in less than 3 hours(give or take) when working as a team. The only time we worked late at a client’s house was Saturday. The owner was at a party a few blocks away and allowed us to have full rein of their residence. The other nights we worked late on the Corvette was at my house. Lots of time went into taping it seeing that the car has extensive decals on every panel. That coupled by wet sanding most of the car took a lot of time also. And no, my neighbors could have cared less what I do at my house during or after regular hours. Again you incorrectly assumed.
And as for the C5 Vette wheels…..you’ve got to be kidding me?? Anyone who’s familiar with these cars can easily understand how the tire sticks out beyond the wheel. There is no way the wheel can or did get damaged. Why you’d bring this up only discredits your judgement once again.
Look Bob, I don’t want to keep dancing around with you on this. If you or anyone else wants to discuss this offline feel free to PM me for my number. It’s actually quite ridiculous that this is even happening. I’ve never had a problem with you or any members of your crew. We have mutual friends and I’ve never said anything negative about you to evoke this attack. I actually assumed we were on good terms with how we’ve both helped each other with separate issues privately. Please let it go and carry on about your business. I really don't wish to waste anymore valuable time defending my business practices and judgement.
ltebow34 said:
Thanks for your acknowledgment of my efforts. I think you misread the thread, because I can't find where Barry claimed to have done any of these cars in the L4P thread. I allowed Barry to use my pictures on that thread and on his site as he wanted. The whole campaign started when detailers started flocking over to L4P signing up as sponsors claiming that the site was produce tons of prospective clients. Barry signed up and got a few stragglers here and there initially. I pondered also joining and so Barry & I came up with the idea to join forces and market ourselves as 1 unit (initially). I would give Barry a certain % of the work we received to help pay for his sponsorship and put a couple bucks in his pocket for his time. If we received a viable response from members I would move forward with becoming a paid sponsor. Prior to Barry’s thread he ran the idea past the site Moderator and they allowed this to be done 100%. After Barry posted that thread we received a total of 3 responses; all turning out to be major tire kickers. After hearing more and more negative stories from other sponsors, I decided to nix the idea and ultimately the site turned into a total letdown for many detailers who joined. Thank God I didn’t give them my money.
autoconcierge
New member
David Fermani said:
Dave,
You are now backtracking and you know it, as I said the cars are great and they looked great but the impression was and is that "perfection meets high volume" is not a proper description for this write up and the quote is (sic) oxymoronic. If I did a full on correction with the subsequent hours to correct to a 95% level and beyond what is the point of posting "Wipedown" details a few months later?, and had you said what you just did in the steps to make this deadline in the first place we would not be having this back & forth you follow................ the impression that "most" people of common sense would come too is that it is not possible as I do black cars after 100% corrections on a maintenance schedule and somehow I need to do at least light correction to get the finish to look like the E-350 in the pics and the BMW(at least in California) and for the boat............... I do not do them anymore and there is a reason because it is a loser job that takes FOREVER to do properly and purple foam wool pad with a Flex/M105 on gelcoat...................... come on now this me you are talking too and not a guy who started 6 months ago.
As for being "cool" with me, I am not cool with anyone who fluffs stuff and calls it "marketing 101" ever.............. why mis-direct when the truth is always in style Dave?, if you can do it right that is enough for clients to see and other detailers judging the work and this mindset has worked for me 16 plus years in the trade.
Lastly just because the tire has a bead protection(michelin PS2 for example) it is still not a good idea to lay the wheel face down on the concrete driveway, just because you can does not mean you should(just like bouncing a customers vintage Fuchs wheel up & down on the street with a s***eating grin on your face in another thread) I realize that you could care less what I think but your potential clients might by using someone else in the future.
loveyourcar
New member
If you guys spent as much time detailing as you do whining...
Barry Theal
New member
ltebow34 said:
Sir,
Other then the fact that David and I are close friends who talk often. Although we have never met in person. Hopefully someday I'll be able to have the chance to detail something with him and learn from his vast knowledge base as well as him learning something from me. I will keep my comments away from this thread topic other then what David has said already. I never once took credit for any cars that David has detailed nor would I ever do that. That is not my character. I will be the first to admit that yes my character as a detailer in this industry has blown up fast. Its not like I just picked up the business yesterday either. I first came onto the internet roughly 2 years ago with online forums and such. Since then I have detailed cars that many people would think of doing. I have earned every bit of this business that I put into it. I was just a local guy 2 years ago that was having fun detailing many cars for years. ( 12 roughly ) Not to gloat, but yes I have been there and done that. I will be honest and say yes I do try and market myself a little more then most. I have done some long write-ups that have educated many and at the same time helped myself establish my current business. Is there something wrong with this? I look at it is marketing. FOr you to say I copy Todd Helme with my right ups is disturbing to me. Seriously when was the last time you seen Todd Helme detail a minivan or some car worth less then the detail itself. Todd is an incredible man both personally and professionally. He is a vast knowledge when it comes to detailing and marketing. Truthfully its guys like him who have paved the way for many of us. When I first came on Autopia. He was a very big influence on me. Yes I do insert logo's and definitions and descriptions. Many do this as well. Why would you single me out? As far as the look at me hype with the wetsanding rant. I will stick by my post. I just don't think you should just one day with no experiance say Im gonna wetsand. It is something that takes practice. A lot of mistakes can be made. Look at me now comment that you made. Is also disturbing. I haven't made a post in quite sometime because I have been very busy with the new shop. I actually keep my work between me and a few others. My website has been down for almost two weeks now, because Im in the middle of redoing everything. I tried to add an ecommerce store and something happened in the html code and Im not sure what went wrong. So I disabled it. For what its worth, Yes I did at one point have several of Davids cars on there. These were not for my gloating, but to advertise his work as well for what we were trying to accomplish as stated above. It was obvious that David did that blue Porsche. He already written a thread on it and many people had seen it. Do you really think I would pass off his work as mine? Seriously I have no reason to do this. I have worked on many nice cars. I don't need to steal others work. Below are just a few in the last week. I encolsed pictures of me working on the cars just to show you that yes I really did them.
Here is a Vintage Ferrari Dino that is going threw a very long detail process. All windows except for the rear window was removed. All tires came off interior is gutted and many trim peices removed. Do you really think I got to detail this car without people actually seeing my work and being credited for it?
Here is a brand new white 458 Italia that also had work done. Again this is me in the photo.
Here in this photo is myself and a great guy Scott who helps me working on a 575.
Here we are again working on a Mondial. This was just a wash and ultrafina, wax. Kinda hurt my feeling I couldn't correct this one fully, but the owner didn't want that done.
Here is one of me working on a Gallardo in my own shop when it first opened.
And here is another project coming soon. I think I found someone to help me with this. I would say there a team that is autolavishing. We are still waiting on a few things.
Anyways you can look at this as gloating or what not. I'm simply stating with these pictures yes I do work on my own cars. Above are just a few examples. If you need more let me know I will gladly send them your way. Anyways I hope you have a great day. I wish the best of luck to you. All these nice cars on this thread. You would think people could admire the beauty of the cars and not be beating people up. As always have a great day! I will.
David sorry didn't mean to hijack your thread. I was simply stating I do work on my cars. lol :getdown
Alexshimshimhae
New member
btw that italia is absolutely gorgeous....
Barry
I don't think you understand, I have no reason to single out people. I merely was reading this thread and ffollowed link to other forum and found you posting David work as yours. No need to get defensive or explain, I understand you do your own work, but point of post was that with the attention you draw to yourself and then following ->PresidentialDetails.com : Now Serving South Florida - Luxury4Play.com it just looks bad to you, when people who know who actually did this work that the cars (at least the bentely) but you say its now yours. I understand permission, but this was done by David, as David. And like I mention, website down was coincedence.. thats why I said, might be coincidence.
And I never said copy ToddHelm, I just mention similar in thread.
We all earn our keep as detailer Barry, realize this is not an attack on you but just pointing out that by drawing attention to self, that I just show you a mistake you make in posting other people work as yours. Many people call this false advertise.
Did you work on the cars seen in this thread here that you posted PresidentialDetails.com : Now Serving South Florida - Luxury4Play.com
Yes or no?
I can see Fermani holding camera, and in thread here you weren't mention.
I don't think you understand, I have no reason to single out people. I merely was reading this thread and ffollowed link to other forum and found you posting David work as yours. No need to get defensive or explain, I understand you do your own work, but point of post was that with the attention you draw to yourself and then following ->PresidentialDetails.com : Now Serving South Florida - Luxury4Play.com it just looks bad to you, when people who know who actually did this work that the cars (at least the bentely) but you say its now yours. I understand permission, but this was done by David, as David. And like I mention, website down was coincedence.. thats why I said, might be coincidence.
And I never said copy ToddHelm, I just mention similar in thread.
We all earn our keep as detailer Barry, realize this is not an attack on you but just pointing out that by drawing attention to self, that I just show you a mistake you make in posting other people work as yours. Many people call this false advertise.
Did you work on the cars seen in this thread here that you posted PresidentialDetails.com : Now Serving South Florida - Luxury4Play.com
Yes or no?
I can see Fermani holding camera, and in thread here you weren't mention.
Barry Theal
New member
Seriously, lets get over this now. Not one of them cars in that post were cars that I detailed! Those were all cars that David Fermani has detailed. It obvious that you have done your homework. It also obvious that you know what David looks like. ( Reflection in Rolls Royce or Bently ) I never once said I performed these details. Nor was I trying to pass it off as mine. I was just trying to show Davids work. Is this false advertising? Well I guess so and I made a mistake then. I will learn from this trust me. As this post was maybe 6 months old. David and I were simply testing the waters to its forum members in Florida. At one point I paid to sponser this forum and to be honest it wasn't worth it. Another lessoned learned. I was no way trying to falsly advertise anything. Every person who contacted us. All 3 I think, I contacted by email, pm, phone or what not and told them to contact David. I supplied the contact info. David made money and I made a percentage. It failed anyway so who really cares? Look at them pictures there all in front of Davids house. We all know what my old shop and house looks like, and my new shop looks like. When was the last time you seen Palm tress in Pennsylvania? Im done have a great Day!
David once again sorry for the hijack.
David once again sorry for the hijack.
If you could stop being so upset and realize forum only goes by what they can see, you will understand that "homework" is just reading threads where people post pictures of themselves on details and when details are exceptional people remember them(ie Paul Dalton car wash vid). We go by what we see, because nobody know what business relationship are behind scenes. People who read forums know detailers face because they choose to post them in details. We don't need to know your business but when something stands out, it stands out and people do question those who put themselve out there when it doesnt make sense..Step back and calm down and just realize this.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
Okay, one more time at me attempting to justify and clarify my actions to Bob.
Right. The only “backtracking” I’m doing is by reiterating back to the beginning to try explaining what exactly I did on these cars(again). That way everyone can be certain that these claims against me are in fact false. Talk about a spin campaign fueled by fallacy.
Got it. Thanks for the compliment.
Again; can you please stop trying to be such an internet bully? This place doesn’t revolve around what you think and your impressions on posting etiquette. I can post what ever I please. In this case Perfection (Todd) teamed up with High Volume (me) to do a project. If you get that as we did 100% multi-step corrections on everything we did; well you read into the title wrong.
Wipedown details? What cars were only wiped down? Again, read what I already posted because you’re making this up.
Again, it seems as if you’re the only one who doesn’t “get it”. Its ok for you to post threads forbidding anyone to ask or question the holy sanctity of your secretive product selection, but you can take the time to blast me for not explaining what steps I did on 15 vehicles? That’s pretty hypocritical.
Again Bob…..read what I already posted. Every black car was polished with M205 to return them to their prior flawless condition. Did you not see that??? That (in case you didn’t know) easily corrected the light wash marring that was visible after a couple months of washing. It almost sounds like you’re not familiar with this popular product? Have you not used M205 to know about its cutting power??? I hope your client’s cars that return for maintenance aren’t that screwed up that they need more work then that. If so, you might want to give them some pointers on proper wash techniques.
Maybe a loser job in your mind, but if you look at the last pic you’ll see a check for $1950. That’s the remaining balance the customer paid after his $500 security deposit. Gee, I certainly wouldn’t call 2 guys earning $2450 in about 7 hours a loser job??? Not to mention the $$$ we made later on that day doing the others.
Oh, and you obviously don’t know boats too well, because if you did you’d realize that Donzi 009’s are finished with PPG base clear. Not raw gel coat. Feel free to contact them to verify Welcome to Donzi Marine - The Home of High Performance Another classic case of you thinking you know everything and can try influencing the other people who do. Oh, and btw, on your website you state Porsche paint is “nano particle ceramic based”. That’s totally false!
Fine with me Bob. We don’t have to be cool. I’ll reflect back and stick to my 1st impression of you when you were doing Gloss-It details. Talk about “fluff” and what’s “in style”.
Bead Protection? Don’t you mean a side wall Bob? If no part of the wheel is making contact with the ground, it’s clearly not creating harm. But I guess because you say it’s “not a good idea” then that’s all that counts. (backpeddling)
Again, the internet detailing world accordingly to Bob Willis. (backpeddling)
That was actually fun! **no damage inflicted to these wheels during the making of this detail** David Fermani's amazing tire drying technique... - Truth In Detailing Auto Detailing Forum
I’m glad you realized something finally. In retrospect, my internet business is up 200% this year alone. Any more I’ll have to quit my career to become a full time detailer….NOT!
Right. The only “backtracking” I’m doing is by reiterating back to the beginning to try explaining what exactly I did on these cars(again). That way everyone can be certain that these claims against me are in fact false. Talk about a spin campaign fueled by fallacy.
Got it. Thanks for the compliment.
Again; can you please stop trying to be such an internet bully? This place doesn’t revolve around what you think and your impressions on posting etiquette. I can post what ever I please. In this case Perfection (Todd) teamed up with High Volume (me) to do a project. If you get that as we did 100% multi-step corrections on everything we did; well you read into the title wrong.
Wipedown details? What cars were only wiped down? Again, read what I already posted because you’re making this up.
Again, it seems as if you’re the only one who doesn’t “get it”. Its ok for you to post threads forbidding anyone to ask or question the holy sanctity of your secretive product selection, but you can take the time to blast me for not explaining what steps I did on 15 vehicles? That’s pretty hypocritical.
Again Bob…..read what I already posted. Every black car was polished with M205 to return them to their prior flawless condition. Did you not see that??? That (in case you didn’t know) easily corrected the light wash marring that was visible after a couple months of washing. It almost sounds like you’re not familiar with this popular product? Have you not used M205 to know about its cutting power??? I hope your client’s cars that return for maintenance aren’t that screwed up that they need more work then that. If so, you might want to give them some pointers on proper wash techniques.
Maybe a loser job in your mind, but if you look at the last pic you’ll see a check for $1950. That’s the remaining balance the customer paid after his $500 security deposit. Gee, I certainly wouldn’t call 2 guys earning $2450 in about 7 hours a loser job??? Not to mention the $$$ we made later on that day doing the others.
Oh, and you obviously don’t know boats too well, because if you did you’d realize that Donzi 009’s are finished with PPG base clear. Not raw gel coat. Feel free to contact them to verify Welcome to Donzi Marine - The Home of High Performance Another classic case of you thinking you know everything and can try influencing the other people who do. Oh, and btw, on your website you state Porsche paint is “nano particle ceramic based”. That’s totally false!
Fine with me Bob. We don’t have to be cool. I’ll reflect back and stick to my 1st impression of you when you were doing Gloss-It details. Talk about “fluff” and what’s “in style”.
Bead Protection? Don’t you mean a side wall Bob? If no part of the wheel is making contact with the ground, it’s clearly not creating harm. But I guess because you say it’s “not a good idea” then that’s all that counts. (backpeddling)
Again, the internet detailing world accordingly to Bob Willis. (backpeddling)
That was actually fun! **no damage inflicted to these wheels during the making of this detail** David Fermani's amazing tire drying technique... - Truth In Detailing Auto Detailing Forum
I’m glad you realized something finally. In retrospect, my internet business is up 200% this year alone. Any more I’ll have to quit my career to become a full time detailer….NOT!
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
You're right Bryan. Sometimes it's just not worth it with all thegmblack3a said:David and Barry, Its hard to be the king.
Richie's Custom Detailing
New member
David, you cannot deny that the pics of the Drophead, and Flying Spur were taken months before this thread was posted. Look at the lighting conditions, they are identical on both cars. That's not a coincidence.
When you pull bullsh!t like this it takes away from your credibility.
If you're content with bouncing your client's vintage Porsche wheel with total disregard for what could happen and laying a 98 Corvette Pace Car wheel face down on the concrete even though the tire may have wheel lip protection then good for you.
I would not do that with one of my wheels let alone a client's.
There's no here, just pointing out the obvious.
I could care less about what products and processes were used, I know what works for me. The fact that you and Todd intended to lead people to beleive you completed full correction details on all of these cars in a relatively short amount of time is where the problem lies.
Bob an internet bully? I think you and Todd need to look in the mirror, isn't that one of the reasons Todd was banned from Autopia ??? If I remember correctly Bob was one of the people asking to let Todd back on here.
When you pull bullsh!t like this it takes away from your credibility.
If you're content with bouncing your client's vintage Porsche wheel with total disregard for what could happen and laying a 98 Corvette Pace Car wheel face down on the concrete even though the tire may have wheel lip protection then good for you.
I would not do that with one of my wheels let alone a client's.
There's no
here, just pointing out the obvious.I could care less about what products and processes were used, I know what works for me. The fact that you and Todd intended to lead people to beleive you completed full correction details on all of these cars in a relatively short amount of time is where the problem lies.
Bob an internet bully? I think you and Todd need to look in the mirror, isn't that one of the reasons Todd was banned from Autopia ??? If I remember correctly Bob was one of the people asking to let Todd back on here.
Greg Nichols
New member
WOW Richie! If you have such a beef post a PM to the guys, but hanging your dirty laundry out for all to see only hurts your credibility too. Bad move in my opinion.
Cheers,
GREG
Cheers,
GREG
Barry Theal
New member
:getdown:Actually Bryan David is the queen and I'm the king. :getdown
LOL if you get the hint Big Boy
LOL if you get the hint Big Boy
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