HD Challenge (@ SEMA?)

[autoconcierge]

Why would 3D ban Bob? This is Autopia, not AG.



Plus, what did he really say that is so bad? I could be wrong because sometimes I have a hard time understanding Bob's posts, but he said that I and Mel should have not been hired and that we both are full of $hit all the time?



We all know Bob speaks the truth!

Thomas, I did refer to unfortunate statements you made to certain people here and elsewhere but did not mean you in the FOSAAT part of the post to be crystal clear.



I know.........................being a bully again, well the truth sometimes is not recieved well and I really wish I did not have to point out conduct unbecoming.



I stand by what was said, the people in the direction they were pointed understand EXACTLY why this is so as we have been here before. I just articulated that there is a difference between "Marketing" and "Gorilla marketing" and I would use HD stuff in a second if it met the standard I need(Nitro Seal does) and just my opinion again if you have the goods it shows..................... nothing out of the ordinary needs to be added.



As for saying what has to be said........................someone needs to, and I am not running for office.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

I like his posts as well.



Which avatar? I don't have one

Good just making sure. I like Bobs posts and he has been very helpful to me. I think he is just brutally honest



Thomas love that avitar. That car is Smoking hot.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

Hi Bob - it is alright, but don't really know what it is you are referring to. Like you, I also say the truth. Some may, and some may not like that, but you know that better than anyone.

Thomas, I did refer to unfortunate statements you made to certain people here and elsewhere but did not mean you in the FOSAAT part of the post to be crystal clear.



I know.........................being a bully again, well the truth sometimes is not recieved well and I really wish I did not have to point out conduct unbecoming.



I stand by what was said, the people in the direction they were pointed understand EXACTLY why this is so as we have been here before. I just articulated that there is a difference between "Marketing" and "Gorilla marketing" and I would use HD stuff in a second if it met the standard I need(Nitro Seal does) and just my opinion again if you have the goods it shows..................... nothing out of the ordinary needs to be added.



As for saying what has to be said........................someone needs to, and I am not running for office.

 

[autoconcierge]

Hi Bob - it is alright, but don't really know what it is you are referring to. Like you, I also say the truth. Some may, and some may not like that, but you know that better than anyone.

Thomas I know about the PM's to a "Texas detailer" and the 6speed thread...............enough said. That's it no more on this thread so the challenge can go down as planned.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

No idea what you are talking about - I recommended you to 2 people.

Thomas I know about the PM's to a "Texas detailer" and the 6speed thread...............enough said. That's it no more on this thread so the challenge can go down as planned.

 

[David Fermani]

I stand by what was said, the people in the direction they were pointed understand EXACTLY why this is so as we have been here before. I just articulated that there is a difference between "Marketing" and "Gorilla marketing" and I would use HD stuff in a second if it met the standard I need(Nitro Seal does) and just my opinion again if you have the goods it shows..................... nothing out of the ordinary needs to be added.

Not really? This whole thing has been taken way out of context actually and if you go back through this entire thread from the beginning, it seems that you have been the only one that has taken things so personal in this thread. In the detailing business It relies on MARKETING and maybe that is what isn’t really understood here if you look at it from a business perspective. 3D bought this forum to not only give the industry a place to gather and talk shop with an open mind, but to MARKET themselves and reserves the right to do as they wish from any marketing perspective they choose. They approve what Barry & I have done and will continue as long as the bottom line is in the green which it is. That may not sit well with you, but unfortunately I can’t help that when the predominance for approval has been overwhelming. Sorry. Most of the HD manufactured products are really great and if you (or anyone else) gave them a shot with an open mind then you would hopefully see that.



Case in point:



HD Nitro Seal. You yourself bought into the “marketing” I dropped on this product, tried it and was sold instantly. I still have the voicemail you left me saying that you were blown away by the results. And, you even did a review here praising it: http://www.autopia.org/forum/3d-high-definition-car-care/137796-used-nitro-seal-today.html





HD Polish: out of the dozens of reviews so far both here and on ANY other forum as well as Facebook, there hasn’t been 1 negative reference about this product. IT IS ALL THAT AND EVEN MORE THEN ANY OTHER FINISHING POLISH OUT THERE (period). Try it and I’ll be willing to bet that impressed is an understatement. The only hype I’ve seen is by the people that have used it and that again speaks for itself.





HD POXY: Just as good or better than any other mainstream sealant like (BFWD/PL/WG) and for under $20. Can’t beat that with a stick. Again, this isn’t just marketing hoopla, it’s supported by countless people on the net.





HD SPEED: Interesting product that has been totally misunderstood by Autopians and is actually falling off the shelves in the retail market. People expected extended durability out of this product, but didn’t see it at 1st. Tunch immediately improved the formula and hasn’t looked back. Is it the end all, be all product; NO. But it certainly has its place. Especially with mobile detailers and volume shops who don’t expect extra durability. If you consider the whole synergistic family of polishing compounds and sealants HD offers, you’d be amazed how great this product looks/performs as a final polish/glaze prior to formal sealing with either POXY or Nitro Seal. Again, the proof is in the pudding, so try it and see for yourself.





HD UNO: Yes, UNO may or may not be all that it was cracked up to be when it 1st came out and if you look back though everything I’ve said on this or ANY other thread you’d be aware that I personally haven’t taken and run with it as being a “game changer” among its heavy compound adversaries. It does have some really decent cut, finishes well and doesn’t dust so I’ll give it that. Nowhere have you ever seen me making this product appear more than it is. And I’ll also give props to Tunch for seeing its shortcomings and doing his best to improve upon them. And that’s why I bumped this thread recently because of the newest product that is getting ready to be officially released at SEMA: HD CUT. It’s way stronger then UNO and is certainly able to rub shoulders with any of the big boy heavy compounds that are on the market in the US and overseas. It's main target audience is body shops/rotary, but so far it's performing pretty well via DA. Come on by the booth @ SEMA and give it a try for yourself, but if you’re gonna bring drama, don’t even bother even stopping in.

 

[pwaug]

HD UNO: Yes, UNO may or may not be all that it was cracked up to be when it 1st came out and if you look back though everything I’ve said on this or ANY other thread you’d be aware that I personally haven’t taken and run with it as being a “game changer” among its heavy compound adversaries. It does have some really decent cut, finishes well and doesn’t dust so I’ll give it that. Nowhere have you ever seen me making this product appear more than it is. And I’ll also give props to Tunch for seeing its shortcomings and doing his best to improve upon them.

While UNO may not have the cut and speed of correction when compared to it's "heavy compound adversaries" I certainly wouldn't sell it short--for those of us who just want to take care of our own cars and perhaps a few relatives cars it is an ideal product. For $20 you get enough to do 6 or so cars rather than spending considerably more on a compound, polish and perhaps a finishing polish. It's easy to use with great results, especially for beginners and on most paints is all you'll need before applying your LSP. Sure it might take longer to correct some deeper marring, but I'm not in this to make money so don't have to worry about how quickly I can complete a detail. It's only shortcoming in my mind is that there is no comprehensive video or instructional material to show how to use it correctly--you can find the information, but you have to dig for it.

 

[autoconcierge]

Not really? This whole thing has been taken way out of context actually and if you go back through this entire thread from the beginning, it seems that you have been the only one that has taken things so personal in this thread. In the detailing business It relies on MARKETING and maybe that is what isn’t really understood here if you look at it from a business perspective. 3D bought this forum to not only give the industry a place to gather and talk shop with an open mind, but to MARKET themselves and reserves the right to do as they wish from any marketing perspective they choose. They approve what Barry & I have done and will continue as long as the bottom line is in the green which it is. That may not sit well with you, but unfortunately I can’t help that when the predominance for approval has been overwhelming. Sorry. Most of the HD manufactured products are really great and if you (or anyone else) gave them a shot with an open mind then you would hopefully see that.



Case in point:



HD Nitro Seal. You yourself bought into the “marketing” I dropped on this product, tried it and was sold instantly. I still have the voicemail you left me saying that you were blown away by the results. And, you even did a review here praising it: http://www.autopia.org/forum/3d-high-definition-car-care/137796-used-nitro-seal-today.html





HD Polish: out of the dozens of reviews so far both here and on ANY other forum as well as Facebook, there hasn’t been 1 negative reference about this product. IT IS ALL THAT AND EVEN MORE THEN ANY OTHER FINISHING POLISH OUT THERE (period). Try it and I’ll be willing to bet that impressed is an understatement. The only hype I’ve seen is by the people that have used it and that again speaks for itself.





HD POXY: Just as good or better than any other mainstream sealant like (BFWD/PL/WG) and for under $20. Can’t beat that with a stick. Again, this isn’t just marketing hoopla, it’s supported by countless people on the net.





HD SPEED: Interesting product that has been totally misunderstood by Autopians and is actually falling off the shelves in the retail market. People expected extended durability out of this product, but didn’t see it at 1st. Tunch immediately improved the formula and hasn’t looked back. Is it the end all, be all product; NO. But it certainly has its place. Especially with mobile detailers and volume shops who don’t expect extra durability. If you consider the whole synergistic family of polishing compounds and sealants HD offers, you’d be amazed how great this product looks/performs as a final polish/glaze prior to formal sealing with either POXY or Nitro Seal. Again, the proof is in the pudding, so try it and see for yourself.





HD UNO: Yes, UNO may or may not be all that it was cracked up to be when it 1st came out and if you look back though everything I’ve said on this or ANY other thread you’d be aware that I personally haven’t taken and run with it as being a “game changer” among its heavy compound adversaries. It does have some really decent cut, finishes well and doesn’t dust so I’ll give it that. Nowhere have you ever seen me making this product appear more than it is. And I’ll also give props to Tunch for seeing its shortcomings and doing his best to improve upon them. And that’s why I bumped this thread recently because of the newest product that is getting ready to be officially released at SEMA: HD CUT. It’s way stronger then UNO and is certainly able to rub shoulders with any of the big boy heavy compounds that are on the market in the US and overseas. It's main target audience is body shops/rotary, but so far it's performing pretty well via DA. Come on by the booth @ SEMA and give it a try for yourself, but if you’re gonna bring drama, don’t even bother even stopping in.

Dave,



At some point you know that just about everyone knows the deal....................... I comment harshly ONLY when needed and everyone also knows this to be true(Except people who do not like me in addition to the reasons for the squabble at the time) this fact is undistputed. I was going to let it lie finally as you wanted me to "Man up" and call you over this, however we can talk face to face which by definition is more of a "Man up" situation.



Your hypocrisy in all matters is staggering, YOU have started all the drama that has ever happened and as always I respond with just a little more force than you do(Understatement) as I have with all the deserving people on the "Detailing Forums". I am known for blunt honesty................................always and in fact YOU used to bang me for being a schill @ Gloss-it.........................how the worm has turned has it not.



Ask yourself this question............................ is the same PR missteps being experienced by the "Big Boys" as you call them? if not why is this?





Debate is over(As it always is when you and I tangle on the "WEB").

 

[Thomas Dekany]

At least year's SEMA, I watched many (you have no idea how many) detailers come by the 3D booth to try out HD UNO V4 with a Rotary.



I will categorize them into 3 levels based on how they used the rotary, but this doesn't mean that they are not top detailers. The work they post speaks for their skills.



Lowest - I recall a body shop guy from the south that was painful to watch. Never seen a pro "butcher" paint and polish like that. He was none the less very impressed with HD UNO.



Highest - John Kleven, his business partner (forgot his name), Jason Kilmer, Tom Horvath, the 2010 Japanese detailing champion (who knew there was such a competition?) and last but not least, Frank, who is the 3D tester for the polishes. Super talented, yet very humble.



When you see these guys with the rotary, they are in a completely different league form everyone that I saw at SEMA.



Middle - everyone else.

Detailing, now a spectator sport. I would love to see something like this.

 

[chrisguga]

Fantastic thread. Great entertainment. Would read again!



I agree with Bob although I'm lost on some of his references to particular people. I don't really read the HD area of this forum very often although the gorilla marketing comment is spot on.



Thomas, are you no longer working for HD? Imo, that's a good thing. You're a talented detailer, but the shove-it-down-our-throats marketing really left a bad taste in people's mouths regarding you and HD, in my personal opinion.



I'm glad I'll get to go back to reading your click-n-brag posts and appreciate the skill without response number 1, in every thread, in every section, where a member has a question, becoming an advertisement for an HD product with a link to that product and a comment how it's the best product ever.

 

[JSFM35X]

This is exactly how I feel about HD/3D and Thomas only I would not have been able to write it this clearly in less than a full page. Thanks. I got so turned off the 3d and I never used any of their products. At first the pushing kind of felt weird to see then it just became something I was looking for in every thread by certain people.



Bob is a very skilled detailer which is obvious by his work and posts. He is also someone who calls it like he sees it. I have seen him be as complimentary as he has been negative and I like Bob and people like this because it is all up front no back stabbing and you know where you stand all the time. It is refreshing. They are not afraid of confrontation. If Bob (or Dave S or Richy,or Eric W and many others) is willing to use A product and plunk down their money on a product that is the best endorsement IMHO. these guys want the best results because their reputation and livelihood depend on it.

Fantastic thread. Great entertainment. Would read again!



I agree with Bob although I'm lost on some of his references to particular people. I don't really read the HD area of this forum very often although the gorilla marketing comment is spot on.



Thomas, are you no longer working for HD? Imo, that's a good thing. You're a talented detailer, but the shove-it-down-our-throats marketing really left a bad taste in people's mouths regarding you and HD, in my personal opinion.



I'm glad I'll get to go back to reading your click-n-brag posts and appreciate the skill without response number 1, in every thread, in every section, where a member has a question, becoming an advertisement for an HD product with a link to that product and a comment how it's the best product ever.

 

[autoconcierge]

Dave, I re-read the segment where you think I was bashing Nitro-seal........................I like Nitro seal and stand by that, can't you get anything right? I said that Nitro-seal was the one product that met the standard I need ..........................





You better have more attention to detail in Vegas next week, shake yourself.

 

[autoconcierge]

At least year's SEMA, I watched many (you have no idea how many) detailers come by the 3D booth to try out HD UNO V4 with a Rotary.



I will categorize them into 3 levels based on how they used the rotary, but this doesn't mean that they are not top detailers. The work they post speaks for their skills.



Lowest - I recall a body shop guy from the south that was painful to watch. Never seen a pro "butcher" paint and polish like that. He was none the less very impressed with HD UNO.



Highest - John Kleven, his business partner (forgot his name), Jason Kilmer, Tom Horvath, the 2010 Japanese detailing champion (who knew there was such a competition?) and last but not least, Frank, who is the 3D tester for the polishes. Super talented, yet very humble.



When you see these guys with the rotary, they are in a completely different league form everyone that I saw at SEMA.



Middle - everyone else.

Thomas..............................where do I start with you, my memory of the visit to the booth was people trying to make me wear a hat and apron while snapping pics..................... and I buffed a panel for what two minutes? yet I do good work because my posts show it.



You are not part of the company as of now, why the interest in what is going on when your latest write ups feature M101? thought "Uno" did it all........................... you are now the last person in the world to comment on anything pertaining to this conversation.



This will be my last post on this thread(Unless more half truths or sillyness is posted or I am clipped) I feel Tunch is doing everything he can to improve his company and EVERYONE in the trade I talk with(Competitors that is) tell me he is a great guy and if the new compound is a quality product I will use it as I use what works no matter who makes it or sells it....................in fact I still use a few Gloss-it products and I cannot stand the owner so what does that say for my "Walk it like I talk it" persona?.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

You are a funny guy Bob. I also stand by what I said.

Thomas..............................where do I start with you, my memory of the visit to the booth was people trying to make me wear a hat and apron while snapping pics..................... and I buffed a panel for what two minutes? yet I do good work because my posts show it.



You are not part of the company as of now, why the interest in what is going on when your latest write ups feature M101? thought "Uno" did it all........................... you are now the last person in the world to comment on anything pertaining to this conversation.



This will be my last post on this thread(Unless more half truths or sillyness is posted or I am clipped) I feel Tunch is doing everything he can to improve his company and EVERYONE in the trade I talk with(Competitors that is) tell me he is a great guy and if the new compound is a quality product I will use it as I use what works no matter who makes it or sells it....................in fact I still use a few Gloss-it products and I cannot stand the owner so what does that say for my "Walk it like I talk it" persona?.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

...........

i still have the voicemail you left me saying that you were blown away by the results. And, you even did a review here praising it: Used "nitro seal" today

:d

dave, i re-read the segment where you think i was bashing nitro-seal........................i like nitro seal and stand by that, can't you get anything right? I said that nitro-seal was the one product that met the standard i need ..........................





You better have more attention to detail in vegas next week, shake yourself.

 

[Alfisti]

Who the heck is this Bob Willis character? Go take your ego to some other forum princess.

 

[moderator]

And that's about the last straw that I'm going to let get pulled. No more member or sponsor bashing will be tolerated. Next person to break the rules is getting dealt with accordingly.

 

[JSFM35X]

BTW-I do not personally know Bob other than from various detailing forums._______________



I disagree about Bob being banned as far as I am concerned, this place is better with as many pro's as can be attracted. It is like many things in life, if you don't agree with someone's point of view or "politics" change the channel.



I am not one for personal attacks "UNLESS" I am attacked or backed into a corner. I guess I would also get very upset if someone was messing with my livelihood. I don't know the issues the players have had in the past but I do frequent many other forums that Bob is active on. He is a great contributor and funny too. He has answered many of my questions. When I wrote back that a particular water spot remover did not work well for for me. His response was something like, you really need to scrub and it is not for the noodle armed! I think thats funny. And you know what after scrubbing my butt off, it worked. THANKS BOB.



I never want anyone to decide whose opinions I hear and dont hear. I like to decide for myself. It's a great country this America!

 

[Thomas Dekany]

Right! As soon as I posted the Nitro Seal 911 detail on AG, I received a warning via PM. Well, not as soon as, but like next day.

BTW-I do not personally know Bob other than from various detailing forums._______________



I disagree about Bob being banned as far as I am concerned, this place is better with as many pro's as can be attracted. It is like many things in life, if you don't agree with someone's point of view or "politics" change the channel.



I am not one for personal attacks "UNLESS" I am attacked or backed into a corner. I guess I would also get very upset if someone was messing with my livelihood. I don't know the issues the players have had in the past but I do frequent many other forums that Bob is active on. He is a great contributor and funny too. He has answered many of my questions. When I wrote back that a particular water spot remover did not work well for for me. His response was something like, you really need to scrub and it is not for the noodle armed! I think thats funny. And you know what after scrubbing my butt off, it worked. THANKS BOB.



I never want anyone to decide whose opinions I hear and dont hear. I like to decide for myself. It's a great country this America!

 

[Paul Sparks]

I saw where this post was dug out of the dust filled oldies file lately. At first it was kind of funny to throw out a few comments. It quickly got out of hand. All of a sudden it became a personal pissing match between a few members. I found it strange to see members telling 3D that they had chosen the wrong people to represent the company on the forum. Like all this drama was helping to sell product ? I would think grown men would take to using PM's to work out or discuss any difference of opinions they might have. I come here to be around like minded members with a common interest in detailing, not to read "as the worm turns soap opera". The original post discussed a friendly competition between detailers and various products. As some have mentioned it would be more productive to have a off SEMA event of talented detailers comparing techniques and products. This IMO would be beneficial to all along with everyone having a great time. So chillax with the drama or take it private and leave the forum for useful detailing matter please. And remember I ain't scared of you tuff guys cause my daddy can whip your daddy and my dad passed away years ago. (j/k , my old mans attempt at humor )