haze after #16

I

imported_tuffluck

New member
honestly, i can't tell that big of a difference between my car with #16 on it and without it. maybe i'm just crazy. #16 is a hell of a lot of work to put on/off, too, when i can just use the nxt with a PC and be done with it. is it really worthwhile for me to go to the extra trouble to put on the #16?



about how long could i expect these to last:



1. 2 coats of nxt topped with 1 coat of #16.

2. 2 coats of nxt.
 
My understanding is that #16 will help the durability of NXT.



The difference in appearance can be subtle epecially if you have a light colour. If you can't see a difference and you're not concerned about durability, just go 2xNXT...it looks amazing on red and darker colours.



If you're having trouble applying/removing #16 you're probably applying it too thickly and letting it dry too much. Depending on the ambient temperature, apply to a 3x3 area, apply it to the next area, go back and remove from original area. It should remove quite easily if you applied it really thin. If its too difficult to remove, you know to apply it thinner.
 
I'm a little :confused: You mention "hazing after 316" in the thread's title, but address other concerns in the body of your post.



If your finish is *really, really* superb, then perhaps adding a LSP such as #16 won't make any difference. But it sure made a difference on my wife's A8, and I had it *very* nice; no marring (lots of rotary work) and the penultimate product was 1Z WPS- and even then the #16 made it look even better.



Can't tell you how long it will last and I don't use NXT, but #16 always lasts a *long* time for me. I apply a second coat after about a week and then refresh it when the beading changes.



I apply #16 with the PC/Cyclo and find it very easy to use. The trick is to put it on thin. With the A8, I removed it all with the Cyclo and one set of suede-style MF bonnets, following up with a CBT. After doing the whole car (and the A8 isn't small ;) ), the bonnets and the CBT appeared nearly unused- that's how little #16 you need to use.



Hope the above didn't sound like some kind of :nono I don't mean it that way. It's just that I get such great results from #16, and find it so easy to use, that I can't help but wonder if you did something wrong. I'm assuming you're using it on a very well prepared surface, one that wouldn't benefit from the "filling/hiding" capabilities of NXT. But also consider that many people *like* how NXT looks, so maybe you'd rather get the "NXT look" than the "#16 look".
 
I read your original post before you edited it, and think the haze you are seeing is excess product still left on your car that needs to be removed.



I will agree with Alfisti by suggesting to remove it sooner and applying it thinner. I used to think that all carnauba waxes had to sit on the car for a certain period of time, allowed to *haze*, and then remove but then a joined Autopia and found everyone saying that removing it immediately was just as good as letting it dry to a haze but much easier to remove. It didn't take me long to find out that, that was VERY true. I apply carnaubas one way now, apply it and then immediately remove it. You can be assured you are still getting the protection needed by just feeling the car after you are done, and if you want to really make sure you covered everything, go over it two times.



Now, for your revised question. Adding a carnauba topper will definitely add to the longevity of the protection. I find more people top sealants with a wax for looks more than durability, simply because Autopians just simply can't leave their cars alone long enough to ever see a protectant fail anyway.



Bottom line, it's all preference. If you want to do it, go for it, and if not, then that's your choice. There's no right or wrong way here, just preference.
 
Very thin layers are the key to making #16 easy to use. You aren't going to get much of a color deepening with #16, it is very neutral looking wax. What I get is increased gloss and wetness over #16.
 
yeah, the thread was originally about me having hazing products with #16, but i decided that was not as important since i knew how to solve that problem.



yeah, i like the fact that i can put 16 on my car and let is sit for several months without having to put wax on it again, but i don't like how hard it is to put on. the problem i have is that when i put it on really thin, it seems to only be applied to certain spots of the paint and that there are some bare spots. it's hard to describe, but it seems with a pad it doesn't like to quite grip on all parts of the car.



now, can i apply 16 with my PC? because if that is an okay method, that might make the use of #16 much, much simpler, if i can ever get that damn stuff on a finishing pad :)
 
Yes you can use a PC.



Use something like a butter knife (tell your wife/GF that your waxing her cutlery to keep them shiny :) ) to lightly 'butter' the pad, and go for it.



It'll help spread it thinly and evenly...just ask Scottwax!
 
Actually, I find #16 to be one of the easier paste waxes to apply by machine, and I apply a number of them that way.



Expanding on what Alfisti posted, a PC/Cyclo works great for applying #16 in part because of the way it facilitates the "turn it liquid" technique that is the key to using #16 successfully.



If using #16 by hand, spin the applicator around in the tin/on the wax until it turns from semi-solid paste to a sorta-liquid. Then try to *keep* it sorta liquid while applying it. This is immeasurably easier when applying by machine.



When using the PC, I use speed 4-4.5. While it's liquid, you can spread it out over an ever-increasing area, getting a thin (and economical) application. And it's easy to get complete and uniform coverage, what with all those oscillations per minute. If you have a uniform application on #16 on the pad, and you move the PC slowly, it's pretty hard to miss any areas.



Either scrunch up the pad to fit it in the can, or use some tool to apply it to the pad. Rub it into the pad and make sure the pad is thoroughly "primed" with #16. Then try to scrape off as much as you can before applying it to the car. When you need more, apply it with the tool (I have a rubber bladed spreader, but I'll also use a plastic razor blade. In fact, I keep a plastic razor blade in each can of paste wax) and then, again, try to scrape off as much as you can. You don't need much on the pad, but you do want a uniform load, not clumps here and there around the pad.



I'll be putting another coat of #16 on the A8 this afternoon, and I'm actually looking forward to doing it. It's *that* easy, and the results make it very satisfying.
 
well i'll definitely have to give it a try like that then.



i had originally used #83 on my dark blue colored car with a polishing pad, but after the 2 coats of nxt and one of #16, in the sunlight i noticed the polishing pad and 83 didn't do the trick on the hood/spoiler/roof areas of my car, so i'm gonna hit them again with a medium pad, then do the nxt, and then i'll 16 those parts of the car again, this time with a finishing pad.



if you scrunch up the pad and get polish on it, how much of your car should that one dip in the 16 get you? thanks for the advice.
 
another question - how many layers of nxt do you guys usually put on? i usually only have time to put on one, wipe off, and then a second immediately after the first. but if it's really benificial durability and looks wise, i'll wait another 12 hours to put another coat on. usually i do the two real quick and then the next day i put on a coat of 16. what do you guys think?
 
Can't help with the NXT Qs as I don't use it. Once I get the pad all primed with #16, *and scrape off the excess*, I'd expect to do the hood and front fenders of a good size sedan like the A8. Hard for me to say as it's been years since I've done it with anything other than the Cyclo and its two 4" pads are sorta tough to extrapolate from.



Generally, IMO most people use many times the #16 that's really required and then complain about how hard it is to remove the 95% that they're buffing off/wasting. A can oughta last many years if you're only doing a few cars with it. The can I used on my father's cars lasted me a good ten years and there was plenty left when I then gave it to a family friend. Her husband used more in two years than I did in the preceding ten by a long shot despite my coaching :rolleyes:
 
yeah, heh. well, the problem i see with the 16 is that when i use it by hand and put a little on the pad, when i start smearing it on the car, there are blank, bare spots were no 16 will touch. maybe that has something to do with the stuff not being liquidated enough.



another thing i guess is that when you start using the 16, wherever on the car you apply it first is going to get the most of it since it's fresh off the pad. i suppose i can smear a little on in different places with the pad before i actually turn the PC on to help keep the 16 uniform on all the parts of the car.
 
tuffluck said:
yeah, heh. well, the problem i see with the 16 is that when i use it by hand and put a little on the pad, when i start smearing it on the car, there are blank, bare spots were no 16 will touch. maybe that has something to do with the stuff not being liquidated enough...
Click to expand...



Yeah, that and just having to be more meticulous when you apply ;) If doing it by hand, you have to really watch what you're doing and catch any missed areas before moving on. Sometimes I think people try to rush this sort of thing a little too much.



..another thing i guess is that when you start using the 16, wherever on the car you apply it first is going to get the most of it since it's fresh off the pad.. .
Click to expand...



If doing it by hand you can moderate the pressure a bit at first; you can do this to some extent by machine too, but with the machine you can just spread it out by going over the initial spot a few times. If you do the " i suppose i can smear a little on in different places with the pad before i actually turn the PC on to help keep the 16 uniform on all the parts of the car" approach, watch that you're not trying to do too large an area. That *will* work, but I'd rather work small areas. While a "padful" might do a hood and fender, I'd just do the hood with barely enough product and add a little more to do the fender. If you put less on the pad, you'll have to do smaller areas before adding more, but I think it'll go better.



I was thinking of this thread when I waxed the A8. I didn't have much on the Cyclo's pads; I was able to do half the hood, for instance before I needed to add product. It was so thin you could barely see it on there, and it was very uniform. Perhaps it was uniform because I spread it out quite a bit- sorta wide, long arcs at first, then I slow down and spread it out. I think of "working it into the paint", even though that really isn't what's happening.



I buffed a few areas off by hand, and it was easy as could be. Nice slick surface, plenty of wax on it.



And once again, my MF bonnets and CBT are vitually unused looking. I might put another coat on tomorrow, and if I do I'll just use the same bonnets and CBT. Sure doesn't take much product....
 
tuffluck, NXT will definitely look better with two coats 24hrs apart. Make sure the second coat is applied gently so as not to amplify its cleaners. You can use the PC for the first coat, then gently by hand for the second.



I would also recommend using a finishing polish after #83, especially on black. You may not have hazing but neither will it create maximum gloss. To really bring up gloss, finish up with #80 or even better, FPII.
 
well i'm using a moderate pad on the 83, which is why i was told it wasn't necessary to use something like 80 afterward, so i'm not. i can't see any hazing left over from the 83, so it's no bother to me.



i will have to add another layer of nxt then, since you all believe it's a good idea. then i'll go back and do a coat or two of the other stuff (16).
 
As I said, its not hazing that's the issue in this case, its gloss levels. #83 will never give you the same gloss as a finishing polish, unless you use it with a rotary.
 
yeah, i understand what you mean. i used #9 last time, which is what i was instructed to use, and it actually made things more complicated since it smeared so badly. and that's really all i have left in my arsenal of car products, so since it's looking as good to me as it did before, i'm going to leave it alone.



it really is amazing, though, what the autopian eye can see as opposed to the average car-owner's eye. 95% of car owner's eyes think any washed car looks great, regardless of wax, if any.



also, i'll take some pictures in the next couple of days, so i'll be sure to post them. btw, my car is dark blue, not black :)
 
Yeah, #9 is the worst polish Megs makes...it does nothing with a PC...IMO, its just glorified hand-cream. I've used it a couple of times and now its sitting on the shelf collecting dust.



What about #80? Can you buy that?
 
i could get a hold of some 80, but the truth is, i'm about to move across the state to a no-garaged area (covered parking only), and i'm trying to get the finish to look great for a long time since PC'ing the car won't be as simple then. i haven't enough time left to go put on some 80 just to make the gloss a *little* richer.



i can barely tell the difference of my car with 2 of nxt on, much less 2 of nxt and another coat of 16 on top. i don't think the benefits of 80 is really going to help me enough to go back and do most of it over again.



should i do a third layer of nxt, or is 2 good enough?
 
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