GM Turnaround Plan: Buick Super?

S

Setec Astronomy

Well-known member
So I'm reading the newspaper this morning and they are having some previews of the New York Auto Show which starts in a week. Buick is unveiling a "Super" model of the LaCrosse and the Lucerne, with the LaCrosse sporting a 300hp V-8 and the Lucerne a more powerful Northstar. The LaCrosse gets an ugly grille and portholes in the fenders.



Now, I'm a pretty loyal GM man, but I don't think the primarily retired LaCrosse owners need another 50 hp under their foot (the base 200hp V6 is peppy and pretty fuel-efficient). If this is part of GM's and Lutz's recovery plan, I think they have melamine in their food. The only people who will want to buy one of these because of the sense of nostalgia because it has portholes in the fenders are old enough that this will be their last car.



Once upon a time, Lloyd Reuss tried to reinvent Buick as Pontiac by having a T-Type (performance version) of each model, which was actually very credible. T-Types frequently had turbocharged engines, specific trim/badging/wheels/blackout treatment, etc. Well, that didn't work, Buick was relegated back to being a stodgy retiree car, and Reuss ended his career at GM in obscurity instead of as its youngest CEO.



I just don't know what GM is thinking, with gas prices soaring back towards $3/gal., they are introducing these Super models with more HP than they need, and basically no other distinguishing features. I can almost hear the phone ringing now with my mother wanting to trade hers in for one with a V8 and portholes :rolleyes:



I traded my 16 yo Pontiac in last year for a new GM car...only to find that GM has regressed in ergonomics...how can my new car be worse in that regard than a 1990? The doors open so wide, if you push them too far, you can't reach them, and have to get out of the car to close the door...the sunroof/map light/Home Link buttons on the overhead console all feel the same, so you have to look at them to know what you are doing...even looking at them it's hard to figure out which is which--the sunroof buttons are angled away from the driver...I guess that's so pedestrians can see them (I just noticed this week that the buttons have writing on them...afer a year) /rant.



Sell your stock now.
 
The only GM products I like are their trucks. The new Sierra HDs are my new dream vehicle lol. And I definitely agree with you on the Buick Super series. It's a novel idea, but Buick's target audience isnt exactly the "spirited driving" type. In fact, I try to stay away from most Buicks I see on the road.
 
Yup, the Buick Super is even stupider than the Mercury Marauder. GM should pulling those tricks (and then some) with Pontiac, whose target audience wants more performance. GM is trying to get Buick to appeal to a wider audience again...they keep forgetting that they have many brands in order to aggressively target specific demographics. Instead, they do THIS, which cannibalizes sales from other brands and lowers their overall profit margin.
 
azenthusiast said:
It's a novel idea, but Buick's target audience isnt exactly the "spirited driving" type.
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It looks to me like that's exactly why Buick is trying this. I'm not saying they're getting it right necessarily, but big perfomance sedans are hot sellers right now, in spite of gas prices. I'm SOOO glad Buick finally got rid of cars like the Park Ave and Roadmaster (which gets my vote for ugliest car of the 90s). They know their traditional core demographic is dying off and they need younger blood. I think they did a fairly good job designing the Lucerne and LaCrosse, they're a big improvement over the style of the previous generation. Frankly, right now I think they're trying to reinvent themselves and only time will tell whether they can pull it off.
 
velobard said:
It looks to me like that's exactly why Buick is trying this. I'm not saying they're getting it right necessarily, but big perfomance sedans are hot sellers right now, in spite of gas prices. I'm SOOO glad Buick finally got rid of cars like the Park Ave and Roadmaster (which gets my vote for ugliest car of the 90s). They know their traditional core demographic is dying off and they need younger blood. I think they did a fairly good job designing the Lucerne and LaCrosse, they're a big improvement over the style of the previous generation. Frankly, right now I think they're trying to reinvent themselves and only time will tell whether they can pull it off.
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IMO That's exactly the problem with Buick's "transformation". Buick shouldn't be reinventing itself, it should just appeal to the old person demographic as much as possible. Big performance sedans are hot now...but they should be left to Pontiac (G8 :D) and Chevy, not Buick. Also, people want big RWD performance sedans, not FWD. Buick's core demographic is not dying off at all--yes they die, but then more people reach retirement age. The baby boomers are all getting old now...this is the PERFECT time to appeal solely to the older people. Buick shouldn't bother with younger blood...leave that to the other brands. Buick could be a huge asset to GM if they just pulled it off right.
 
I don't think a bigger engine and portholes is any sort of "reinvention". Their reinvention has been to reduce their product line to two cars and two trucks, so as to appeal to as small a market as possible. This is nothing like the reinvention that I spoke of which spawned the T-Types, as well as the Grand National. That was true attempt to reverse their demographic. I honestly don't think too many G35 shoppers are going to suddenly say "hey, the Buick LaCrosse Super has 300hp, let's go to the Buick showroom!", although a few Lexus ES shoppers might be swayed over there...
 
Sherman8r44 said:
Also, people want big RWD performance sedans, not FWD. Buick's core demographic is not dying off at all--yes they die, but then more people reach retirement age. The baby boomers are all getting old now...this is the PERFECT time to appeal solely to the older people. Buick shouldn't bother with younger blood...leave that to the other brands. Buick could be a huge asset to GM if they just pulled it off right.
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The Lucerne is RWD, BTW. I think the research shows that once people get off the GM bandwagon, they don't go back...I don't know how old you are, but I don't know of any baby-boomers who don't drive GM who would start now. The LaCrosse is a very nice, competent car, it just doesn't need a 300hp engine (the current sport model, with a detuned 3.6l VVT Cadillac engine at 240hp is plenty...and accounts for probably...2% of LaCrosse sales...the Super will probably cannibalize half of that and not add any more).
 
Corey Bit Spank said:
No. The Lucerne is FWD. It's built on the G-body. yay.
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Oh...I forgot it's the same as the DTS...I'm thinking it's on the Sigma chassis.



EDIT: I actually think FWD is better for most people in snow regions, get away without dedicated snows, more interior room, etc.
 
I think we can agree that Buick has had an identity crisis for almost 20 years.



GM has a dedicated luxury division in Cadillac. GM has 2 specialised performance areas, the corvette team, and now Pontiac again with the solistic and g8 (and more to follow now that the Montana and Aztec are gone).



is there really enough room for buick? or will it bite like Olds?
 
The preferences of "old folks" is shifting to some degree. People that are retiring now were coming of age in the era of muscle cars. Cadillac is doing the same thing, but IMHO they're doing a somewhat better job of it. I said before that Buick is trying to reinvent itself, in reality it's probably more of an identity crisis mixed with a little panic to survive so they don't wind up like Oldsmobile, as Kanchou said. I was sad to see Olds die off, but I can see where it made good business sense.



Yes, the market is hot for powerful RWD sedans. GM's problem is they don't have factories set up for RWD production and it would take a significant expediture to shift gears in that regard. The power bar is being raised and 300 seems to be the mark to aim for these days if you're going to try to market a car as a performance sedan. WIthout those numbers, you're up against some really stiff competition, so I understand why Buick feels it's necessary to head in this direction. I'm just not sure they have the market sorted out well enough.
 
Hmmm loved my Grand National. As Ali would say, Buick "shook up the world" with that one. The Lucerne would likely make a good used car purchase. Owned by older folks who pay attention to the maint. schedules, likely garage kept and low mileage. After depreciation price would be very reasonable.
 
velobard said:
Yes, the market is hot for powerful RWD sedans. GM's problem is they don't have factories set up for RWD production and it would take a significant expediture to shift gears in that regard. The power bar is being raised and 300 seems to be the mark to aim for these days if you're going to try to market a car as a performance sedan. WIthout those numbers, you're up against some really stiff competition, so I understand why Buick feels it's necessary to head in this direction. I'm just not sure they have the market sorted out well enough.
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GM does have the capacity to build RWD, and a very competant big RWD powerful sedan in the form of the Pontiac G8 (and probably the Chevy Impala on the same platform). WHY attempt to go after the market that wants big performance sedans, when that area is being covered by another in-house brand? That's just cannibalism! Instead, mold the brand image so that Buicks can steal sales from the Toyota Avalon and the Ford Crown Vic/Town Car.
 
Sherman8r44 said:
GM does have the capacity to build RWD, and a very competant big RWD powerful sedan in the form of the Pontiac G8 (and probably the Chevy Impala on the same platform). WHY attempt to go after the market that wants big performance sedans, when that area is being covered by another in-house brand? That's just cannibalism! Instead, mold the brand image so that Buicks can steal sales from the Toyota Avalon and the Ford Crown Vic/Town Car.
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The Pontiac G8, as with the GTO before it, is to be imported from a factory in Australia where the Holden branch of GM has been producing RWD cars for quite awhile. It will take more time to convert North American factories.



As for aiming for the market served by Avalon and in particular the Crown Vic, I think that's very well that they're aiming for. Pontiac aims for a younger demographic, Buick tries to position itself as a bit more upscale and refined.
 
10 years ago, GM's vision was to move Cadillac to the ultra-luxury market. Buick was to remain the domestic luxury car buyer's choice.



Somehow, things aren't happening that way. Buick is being treated poorly as sales drop.



It's pretty easy, though: build reliable cars that people want and offer them for a competitive price and they'll sell. This is something GM and the domestics have done only intermittently for too long.
 
I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I have never had a problem with the handling characteristics of FWD cars. Sure, they may not be the ultimate machines, but for the average driver I think all the tradeoffs favor FWD. I'm not 17 or 20 or 23 anymore, so I don't ever push my cars to 10/10ths like I may have then.



I just don't think that a "super" Buick is going to bring anyone new into Buick showrooms, or cause anyone who's already in there to buy if they weren't. I'm not a truck/SUV buyer, so I can't really say whether Buick's SUV lineup is attractive, but it makes up 3/5's of their product line. IMO opinion, if Buick wants to bring more car buyers into their showrooms, they need more cars--how about something a little smaller with all the same luxury/relative power that the LaCrosse has? That's my big gripe with GM, if you want to get the cool features, you always have to buy the biggest car in the showroom (I heartily applaud them for bringing all the cool stuff from the STS, like AWD, Bluetooth, and the keyless start into the '08 CTS...even if they did make the car almost as big as the STS).
 
SpoiledMan said:
The Cadillac CTS and STS are both RWD. Why not use some of the capacity of that/those plant(s)?
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They're hurting for RWD production capacity. They're already anticipating that demand for the G8 is going to outstrip the limited available supply they can import from Australia.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I have never had a problem with the handling characteristics of FWD cars. Sure, they may not be the ultimate machines, but for the average driver I think all the tradeoffs favor FWD. I'm not 17 or 20 or 23 anymore, so I don't ever push my cars to 10/10ths like I may have then.
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I'm old-school enough that I still enjoy RWD and have no problem with them in adverse weather. That said, I currently drive a FWD and don't have a problem with it. It's not my pre-eminent deciding factor in picking a car.



I just don't think that a "super" Buick is going to bring anyone new into Buick showrooms, or cause anyone who's already in there to buy if they weren't. I'm not a truck/SUV buyer, so I can't really say whether Buick's SUV lineup is attractive, but it makes up 3/5's of their product line. IMO opinion, if Buick wants to bring more car buyers into their showrooms, they need more cars--how about something a little smaller with all the same luxury/relative power that the LaCrosse has? That's my big gripe with GM, if you want to get the cool features, you always have to buy the biggest car in the showroom (I heartily applaud them for bringing all the cool stuff from the STS, like AWD, Bluetooth, and the keyless start into the '08 CTS...even if they did make the car almost as big as the STS).
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Good point. Take a look at the Mini Cooper as an example. Of course, with that one if you get carried away with options you can drive the price over $50k. In reality, if they wanted to they could offer most of that stuff for a better price, but the Mini has enough appeal and demand they can get away with that.
 
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