Getting rid of swirl marks by hand.

The lighting in that garage seems adequate until you try to do something more than get in your car and drive away. It's downright gloomy. I have a 100 watt trouble light hanging on the wall in my spot for now. I had to string the cord and an extension cord along the plumbing pipes in the ceiling and tape it to the I-beam. It only helps some. That's why all my photos are taken in parking lots. That's the only time the car is stopped out in the sunlight. ;) The photos I tried taking in the garage were useless.
 
Taxlady said:
I had to string the cord and an extension cord along the plumbing pipes in the ceiling and tape it to the I-beam. It only helps some. That's why all my photos are taken in parking lots. That's the only time the car is stopped out in the sunlight. ;) The photos I tried taking in the garage were useless.
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:bow :bow Wow, I was going to try something similar but decided it was too much work. It looks like you (as a true Autopian) were willing to go the extra mile. Now all you need to get are these dual 500W halogens shown here...



http://www.autopia-carport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8406
 
Tort:



What I want you to do is take alittle rubbing alcohol on a rag after you have done your marvelous job of removing not filling swirls with your PC and rub it over a good size area of the paint where you have "removed swirls." I think you will find that all you have done is filled them. Try it!!!!!



Don't take it personal if I disagree with you.



You say that 3M's products do not have fillers. Please define for me what you call "fillers."



Regards

BUDA
 
I like the idea of the halogen lights on a tripod. I'm sure there are lots of uses for such a thing other than car care, aren't there? ;)
 
Buda wrote: "take a little rubbing alcohol on a rag after you have done your marvelous job of removing not filling swirls with your PC and rub it over a good size area of the paint where you have "removed swirls." I think you will find that all you have done is filled them. Try it!!!!!"



I've rubbed IPA on a section of my black car that I hand polished using 3M Finesse-It II followed by a paint cleanser and I didn't see any re-appearance of swirls. Aren't you confusing FI-2 with SMR (which does contain fillers)?



As for TortoiseAWD not taking things personally, why don't you try and stop being so damn condescending first? "marvelous job of not filling swirls" ?? :rolleyes:
 
buda said:
Tort:



What I want you to do is take alittle rubbing alcohol on a rag after you have done your marvelous job of removing not filling swirls with your PC and rub it over a good size area of the paint where you have "removed swirls." I think you will find that all you have done is filled them. Try it!!!!!



Don't take it personal if I disagree with you.



You say that 3M's products do not have fillers. Please define for me what you call "fillers."



Regards

BUDA
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Buda,



I hate to tell you, but those of us on this board who use Zanio always wash with Dawn dish soap after using a swirl removal product specifically to remove any fillers or oils left on the paint. This is a very necessary step in our prep process for Zaino. We are adept at finding the swirls, and eliminating them too. Some of our methods are not old school, but they are effective nonetheless. Any doubts about this should be resolved by a visit to the members picture forum.



:sosad
 
Taxlady said:
I like the idea of the halogen lights on a tripod. I'm sure there are lots of uses for such a thing other than car care, aren't there? ;)
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That's the spirit! Heck, maybe you can even classify it (in quickbooks) as 'home-repair'...hehe
 
Actually, in my case (and almost always), automobile maintenance is at a higher percentage than home maintenance for biz expenses.
 
Thanks for the reply. But you did not answer my question: "What are fillers?"



As for condescending, sorry, that is my nature unfortunately, but I am working on it.



Regards
 
I guess I never thought about it too much... I just assumed that fillers could mean anything used to make the appearance of existing surface imperfections less visible by 'stuffing' or saturating the valley that a swirl or surface imperfection is composed of. Completely different from actually removing or leveling the clear-coat. Why? What is your definition of fillers?
 
I am guilty! Sorry, you asked for the best way to remove swirls by hand and I answered PC. I think most of todays products are more useful if use by a machine.



Confession: I do not know the best way to remove swirls by hand.



Good luck
 
You stated that the 3M products did not contain fillers. Before challenging your statement I wanted to know what you defined as "fillers."



All compounds have oil in them which could fill swirls.



All polishes and swirl removers, including those formulated for body shops, have oils that could fill swirls



So you see that the 3M products do "fill."



What I think you meant to say is that the 3M Finese-It System, because they are designed for use by body shops, do not contain any waxes, silicones or other ingredients that could seal the paint surface. The reason for this is that newly applied aftermarket paint must cure for a minimum of 60 days to allow all solvents in the paint to evaporate.



This has nothing to do with being a filler.



Regards

BUDA
 
Reading your post was almost nostalgic for me. It almost felt like something I'd read back in my infant years of auto care.



First of all, I never said 3M products didn't contain fillers. You're confusing me with someone else. All I said was that I've used FI-2 before and did the IPA suggestion you posted and didn't find any re-emergence of surface imperfections.



Second of all, no it wasn't my intention to say that FI-2 doesn't contain silicones or waxes because it's body shop safe. I made no mention at all about the ingredients of FI-2 except for what I just said above. I did however mention that I've gotten really good results from it.



As for sealing the paint surface, lol, I got a good chuckle out of what you just wrote. You shouldn't put words in my mouth. I didn't equate the filling properties of any product with being body-shop safe or 'sealing' the paint. I KNOW it has nothing to do with being a filler....



If you do a simple search, you'll realize that the paint curing lesson you just tried to give is not only very common knowledge here, but also quite outdated. Sure, the older lacquers and enamels needed time for the solvents to evaporate and release, which wax/dimethyl silicone oil will inhibit. However, all urethane paints and late technology paints use a catalyst for hardening and curing. The paint is fully cured in about 36 to 72 hours.
 
buda said:
Tort:



What I want you to do is take alittle rubbing alcohol on a rag after you have done your marvelous job of removing not filling swirls with your PC and rub it over a good size area of the paint where you have "removed swirls." I think you will find that all you have done is filled them. Try it!!!!!
Click to expand...

Thanks, I already have tried that particular trick, and lo and behold, I actually removed swirls with a PC. Also, before applying a polymer sealant, I wash either with the readily available Dawn, or use a product from Hi-Temp meant to strip any old wax, road film, and surface oils from the paint. I'm quite satisfied that when I appy sealant, it's on top of a clean, oil-free, filler-free (and swirl-free) surface.



Tort
 
Taxlady said:
Wow Scottwax, that looks great. Did you use a PC?
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I did it all by hand. Took about 30-40 minutes to do the entire hood. A PC would probably have cut the time in half, but I've always worked by hand, so I don't even have a PC (although I have used one before). Besides, after having her hood swirled by improper buffer use, the lady who owns the Suburban probably wouln't be too keen on seeing one near her truck again.
 
Intermezzo:



It appears that I thought your posting was an answer to another posting I was debating with. Sorry.



PAINT CURING



You are absolutely incorrect on your assumption about paint curing.



First, in the factory they use thermo-curing paint. That is, paint that has to be heated to over 350 degrees to even begin the curing process.



They also use acid catalyst thermo curing paint for after assembly in-factory repairs. This also has to be heated to begin the curing process.



Either of these two paints must be left unsealed for 21 days to cure completely because there is solvent left in the paint.



As I am certain you know, solvent is only used as a carrier, but it is there even in 2K paints.



In the aftermarket they cannot heat the paint up to the temperatures in the factory because the vehicles are completely assembled with plastic, electrical wires, windows, etc. on the car. So they cannot use thermo curing paints.



In the aftermarket they use chemically curing paints that can be heated to under 150 degrees.



These paints do require a waiting period of 60 days to completely cure.



Where do you get your information? I get mine from the Paint Companies, namely Azko-Sikkens the number one paint company from Europe and also from the auto manufacturers, in this case John Hughes of Ford Motor Company.



Bottomline, you are wrong on the issue of paint curing.



Regards

BUDA
 
buda said:
Intermezzo:

Bottomline, you are wrong on the issue of paint curing.
Click to expand...



Geez, this conversation is starting to get beneath me.....



When did you last talk to the good ppl over at Sikkens?



My info comes from a professional painter whom I talk to regularly (not eight years ago) and has been in the industry for 30 years.
 
Buda, you are right about factory finishes, but most paint shops recommend you wait 90 days instead of 60. The shop I send all my customers to (and he fixed the front end of my car) uses Spies-Hecker paints and says you must wait 1 week to use a high pressure hose and 90 days to wax. Since his body shop is consistantly rated at the top of the list in the Dallas area, I waited 90 days to wax mine. Since he gives a lifetime warranty on his paint work, I was not about to jeopardize it.
 
People have been recommending a three month wait period before waxing for so long that even with urethane based paints they still recommend three months when it's not necessary. Buda, if you don't believe me, look it up sometime. You'll see that Urethane resins do not require 3 months for all the solvents to release. In fact, you'll see that 36-72 hours is a very 'safe' waiting period. Why do you think automotive grade urethane cannot be bought in a can?
 
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