Frustrated- Zaino with Black (long)
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TortoiseAWD
New member
I posted this a few months ago re: how I apply Z with a PC; it might be of some use here:
I use a 3M waffle finishing pad (grey). I wet the pad thoroughly with water, then squeeze until barely damp. Sandwiching the pad between a couple of MF towels and squeezing gets them mostly dry, then I mount the pad on the buffer and allow it to free spin. Centrifugal force will pull any residual drops out of the foam. I then spray the pad lightly with Z6, and apply the ZFX/Z to the pad using a 35 mL oral syringe. Part of the trick is to get a very small amount of Z distributed over the face of the pad; the syringe comes in handy for that . . . it's easy to control, and you can gauge how much is being applied to each panel.
Now to apply to the car . . . before firing up the buffer, I dab it in several places over the panel I'm about to cover. This leaves small deposits of Zaino on the surface that will "refresh" the pad as I spread the Z. In my experience, this yields more even coverage. Then I turn on the buffer (set around 2 or so) and spread the product over the panel. There's no need to "work" it at all; I usually support a good deal of the buffer's weight, and just let the waffle pattern of the 3M pad "massage" the Z onto the paint.
The first couple of panels will require more Zaino until the pad is "loaded"; after that, I've found the pad gives back as much as it apply to it, and takes only tiny amounts (less than 1 mL) for subsequent panels. Oh, I hit the pad lightly with Z6 every other panel or so, too, as that seems to even out coverage and allow the Z2/Z5 to spread that much more thinly.
If I'm doing multiple coats (and I usually do at least 2 if I've busted out the ZFX), I spray the pad with Z6 and put a damp MF towel over it while removing the previous coat; it keeps the Z on the pad from setting up in the interim.
I use a 3M waffle finishing pad (grey). I wet the pad thoroughly with water, then squeeze until barely damp. Sandwiching the pad between a couple of MF towels and squeezing gets them mostly dry, then I mount the pad on the buffer and allow it to free spin. Centrifugal force will pull any residual drops out of the foam. I then spray the pad lightly with Z6, and apply the ZFX/Z to the pad using a 35 mL oral syringe. Part of the trick is to get a very small amount of Z distributed over the face of the pad; the syringe comes in handy for that . . . it's easy to control, and you can gauge how much is being applied to each panel.
Now to apply to the car . . . before firing up the buffer, I dab it in several places over the panel I'm about to cover. This leaves small deposits of Zaino on the surface that will "refresh" the pad as I spread the Z. In my experience, this yields more even coverage. Then I turn on the buffer (set around 2 or so) and spread the product over the panel. There's no need to "work" it at all; I usually support a good deal of the buffer's weight, and just let the waffle pattern of the 3M pad "massage" the Z onto the paint.
The first couple of panels will require more Zaino until the pad is "loaded"; after that, I've found the pad gives back as much as it apply to it, and takes only tiny amounts (less than 1 mL) for subsequent panels. Oh, I hit the pad lightly with Z6 every other panel or so, too, as that seems to even out coverage and allow the Z2/Z5 to spread that much more thinly.
If I'm doing multiple coats (and I usually do at least 2 if I've busted out the ZFX), I spray the pad with Z6 and put a damp MF towel over it while removing the previous coat; it keeps the Z on the pad from setting up in the interim.
Why would you wnat so many layers of Zaino?
I mean there has to be a point of no return..............After 3 layers I see no difference on my truck but it is a light color...............
If Zaino is optically clear and basically adds a microscopic thin layer of some polymer in it that is clean which produces the shine how does adding more make the shine better..............
There has to be a point where you are not really adding more thickness to the Zaino layer and you are just SMEARING it around and really doing nothing at all.........
I think you have too much and are wasting it............just wash you TA and go over it iwth the Zaino QD............I bet all your problems go away................
I mean there has to be a point of no return..............After 3 layers I see no difference on my truck but it is a light color...............
If Zaino is optically clear and basically adds a microscopic thin layer of some polymer in it that is clean which produces the shine how does adding more make the shine better..............
There has to be a point where you are not really adding more thickness to the Zaino layer and you are just SMEARING it around and really doing nothing at all.........
I think you have too much and are wasting it............just wash you TA and go over it iwth the Zaino QD............I bet all your problems go away................
stuart hicks
New member
I've found the cars that had only one layer of zaino held beads for up to a year, but cars with mulitple layers of zaino only lasted a few months.
My mom got a new camry last June, I put on a layer of Z2 the day she got it. Just last weekend I washed the car it still had the Zaino beads on it. I also did a BMW with Z2 last year with one coat it is still beading now.
The cars that I have tried multiple layers of Z2 w/zfx seem to lose those tight beads in about 2 months. I have about 6 cars that have multiple layers on and they all lose that beading after a few months. The two cars that had only one coat continue to bead for almost a year now.
I don't actually see a better shine with multiple coats.
Whats also interesting to me is that on the BMW with one coat Z2, I used a carnuba wax on one half of the car. The beads changed to a carnuba type when wet for a while and then went back to the little Z2 beads. This lead me to believe that the Z2 held up even underneath a wax and way outlasted the wax on top. So what I do now is put one layer of Z2 on a car for protection and a layer of carnuba for the shine I want.
Just my personal experiences.
My mom got a new camry last June, I put on a layer of Z2 the day she got it. Just last weekend I washed the car it still had the Zaino beads on it. I also did a BMW with Z2 last year with one coat it is still beading now.
The cars that I have tried multiple layers of Z2 w/zfx seem to lose those tight beads in about 2 months. I have about 6 cars that have multiple layers on and they all lose that beading after a few months. The two cars that had only one coat continue to bead for almost a year now.
I don't actually see a better shine with multiple coats.
Whats also interesting to me is that on the BMW with one coat Z2, I used a carnuba wax on one half of the car. The beads changed to a carnuba type when wet for a while and then went back to the little Z2 beads. This lead me to believe that the Z2 held up even underneath a wax and way outlasted the wax on top. So what I do now is put one layer of Z2 on a car for protection and a layer of carnuba for the shine I want.
Just my personal experiences.
HilfigerCelica
New member
That's pretty interesting stuart.
VetteToVair
New member
stuart hicks said:
:spot
Your experiences doing multiple coats with ZFX are very similar to mine.
I originally started out using Z1 and had great results. When ZFX came out I tried it and was less than impressed. What I found was the 2nd and 3rd coat seemed to decrease clarity a little, probably from a build-up of polish on the car. Also, there was a slight greasy film after the 3rd coat which I had to use a damp towel to remove. This was getting 3 coats out of 3/4oz of polish so I wasn't using too much.
Clarity came back after letting the polish cure for about 3 days then washing & qd. But still something was missing, car didn't seem to pop as well as it did with 3 coats applied with a few days cure in between without ZFX.
I also noticed that the finish was not quite as slick when using ZFX as a bonding agent as when I used Z1 (probably due to the cleaners in Z1).
I've been flamed off a few bbs's for expressing my views but for me the best results have been obtained doing Zaino the "old fashioned" way. Try doing a single coat without ZFX and see if you agree.
I originally started out using Z1 and had great results. When ZFX came out I tried it and was less than impressed. What I found was the 2nd and 3rd coat seemed to decrease clarity a little, probably from a build-up of polish on the car. Also, there was a slight greasy film after the 3rd coat which I had to use a damp towel to remove. This was getting 3 coats out of 3/4oz of polish so I wasn't using too much.
Clarity came back after letting the polish cure for about 3 days then washing & qd. But still something was missing, car didn't seem to pop as well as it did with 3 coats applied with a few days cure in between without ZFX.
I also noticed that the finish was not quite as slick when using ZFX as a bonding agent as when I used Z1 (probably due to the cleaners in Z1).
I've been flamed off a few bbs's for expressing my views but for me the best results have been obtained doing Zaino the "old fashioned" way. Try doing a single coat without ZFX and see if you agree.
jimmy, not alone in that viewpoint.
I've only used it with ZFX. However, I have started to consider going the Z1 route based on the observations here, cost of ZFX and the amount of times I can actually apply 2-3 coats in one day. I've done it on my mom's vehicle a couple of times going with 3 coats from 1 ounce but I'm starting to change my tune.
I still like the idea of ZFX when doing wheels though. Being able to apply 3 coats (even if clarity diminshes etc.) and having a thicker protection seems worth it when I actually get down to removing the wheels and going all out.
I'd rather only apply 1 coat and detail the engine, interior etc. rather than spending 1/2 to a full day only applying sealant. I don't this for a living so I don't mind taking my time and not rushing but I'm happy with how 1 to 2 coats look so I'm not going for a record on how many coats I have on my vehicle (that is of course, if I ever get around to replacing my write off
).
Thinking of an A4... but will see.
I've only used it with ZFX. However, I have started to consider going the Z1 route based on the observations here, cost of ZFX and the amount of times I can actually apply 2-3 coats in one day. I've done it on my mom's vehicle a couple of times going with 3 coats from 1 ounce but I'm starting to change my tune.
I still like the idea of ZFX when doing wheels though. Being able to apply 3 coats (even if clarity diminshes etc.) and having a thicker protection seems worth it when I actually get down to removing the wheels and going all out.
I'd rather only apply 1 coat and detail the engine, interior etc. rather than spending 1/2 to a full day only applying sealant. I don't this for a living so I don't mind taking my time and not rushing but I'm happy with how 1 to 2 coats look so I'm not going for a record on how many coats I have on my vehicle (that is of course, if I ever get around to replacing my write off
).Thinking of an A4... but will see.
imported_Luster1
New member
I never use ZFX. Only the Z1/Z2/Z6/Repeat combo.
albertoiffrlw
New member
Stuart, just for your information, Zaino is known for its sheeting action as opposed to beading. Bead consistancy with Zaino means nothing...
Also, if you work zaino in, you will see better results. Experiment with Zaino and you will see what i mean. Use vertical strokes while applying on side panels and horizontal on flat pieces like the hood, trunk and roof.
If you really want to add some optical enchancements, change the direction of application on each panel. Also work the panel for 10 mins with the buffer on 3.
Also, if you work zaino in, you will see better results. Experiment with Zaino and you will see what i mean. Use vertical strokes while applying on side panels and horizontal on flat pieces like the hood, trunk and roof.
If you really want to add some optical enchancements, change the direction of application on each panel. Also work the panel for 10 mins with the buffer on 3.
Black Lightning said:
This is why I like this board. Everyone always has a bunch of unique tips that they use to get better results.
Black Lightning, what you posted is interesting and maybe this is my problem. I don't have a pc...yet anway. I am applying it by hand, but don't really work the zaino into the paint as people always said you don't need to, just wipe it on, let it dry and wipe off. When I apply it by hand do much do I need to work it into the paint?
Luster, you are using z1 each time, if so what is your reason for this?
I am not going to give up on the zaino, yet. I think I am going to wash the car and get rid of all the excess polish which has accumulated and then try a single coat of z2 and see what happens. I have almost always used only z5 and maybe I will get better results with the z2.
TortoiseAWD
New member
This has not been my experience (and I don't believe I'm alone on this) . . .Black Lightning said:
The cars that I've Zainoed have had the tightest, longest lasting water beads I've seen from any product I've tried so far. IMO, Zaino isn't supposed to sheet, and doesn't (for me, at least). I'll be interested to hear others' opinions on this, because it's completely contrary to what I've personally experienced and read from others. :nixweiss
Tort
Wow- all this is really good to know, and confirms some thoughts that have been lurking in the depths of my mind for awhile.
I never understood how having many, many layers would provide more of a shine; it makes sense to me that there is a point, which going past makes no sense.(economically, and time-wise, at least)
I have applied 2 coats a month ago. I'll apply 1 more coat of Z2 tomorrow using the vertical/horizontal trick before I throw a layer of carnauba overtop- the Zaino shine just didn't cut it for me.
I never understood how having many, many layers would provide more of a shine; it makes sense to me that there is a point, which going past makes no sense.(economically, and time-wise, at least)
I have applied 2 coats a month ago. I'll apply 1 more coat of Z2 tomorrow using the vertical/horizontal trick before I throw a layer of carnauba overtop- the Zaino shine just didn't cut it for me.
albertoiffrlw
New member
JP, you can do it by hand if your shoulder is up to it, lol.
Even a orbital buffer with a MF bonnet will work and probably save your arms.
If i was you, i would wash the car with Dawn. Afterwards, pull it into the garage and take out an applicator and soak it in Isopropyl alcohol and rub it onto the paint to strip the zaino. When complete, roll it back out and re-wash it with Dawn. They should effectively strip the Zaino off.
I dont know what condition your paint is in, but perhaps a claying may be in order? Follow up with some swirl remover or even some sort of nice polish. Just be sure to wash the car with Z7 before applying Z1.
My belief is, when youre starting from scratch with Zaino, its good to use the Z1 Lok.. Applying it kind of liberally, about 2oz for the enitire vehicle, eveningly. Wait for it to dry. Buff it off with a MF.
Then go straight to Z5.. Apply only one coat.. wait 24 hrs and do a second, then another 24, then wait a week, then goto zfx.
I hope that helps your situation.
Even a orbital buffer with a MF bonnet will work and probably save your arms.
If i was you, i would wash the car with Dawn. Afterwards, pull it into the garage and take out an applicator and soak it in Isopropyl alcohol and rub it onto the paint to strip the zaino. When complete, roll it back out and re-wash it with Dawn. They should effectively strip the Zaino off.
I dont know what condition your paint is in, but perhaps a claying may be in order? Follow up with some swirl remover or even some sort of nice polish. Just be sure to wash the car with Z7 before applying Z1.
My belief is, when youre starting from scratch with Zaino, its good to use the Z1 Lok.. Applying it kind of liberally, about 2oz for the enitire vehicle, eveningly. Wait for it to dry. Buff it off with a MF.
Then go straight to Z5.. Apply only one coat.. wait 24 hrs and do a second, then another 24, then wait a week, then goto zfx.
I hope that helps your situation.
albertoiffrlw
New member
TortoiseAWD said:
Dont get me wrong, Zaino does bead depending on your method for rinsing. Spraying with a nozzle/power washer will create insane beads.. I use an open hose with the water on low and the water sheets right off and doesnt bead up. But even talking to Sal, he will tell you bead strength means nothing about the products longevity.
Whoa dere....from zainobros.com:
" 5. Start with either Z-1 Polish Lok as per directions OR the preferred New ZFX accelerator additive. If you are using Z-1 it does not need to dry. Remember do not wipe off the Z-1 Polish Lok. Apply Z-5 or Z-2 directly over the Z-1. Z-5 is the Hot ticket for a swirl free, flawless paint finish. Usually one to three coats will accomplish that."
TortoiseAWD
New member
Ah, OK, that makes more sense. If you're talking about sheeting the water off the car with a stream of water after washing, then I'm with you there. I was thinking more about how Z and other products react in the rain (or spraying with water).Black Lightning said:
Tort
Zaino doesn't sheet for me as well. Tight tight beads. As the protection starts diminish, the beads get larger.
Most people don't recommend using a PC for Zaino. However, I have tossed around the idea as well. I always thought it would use up to much product but I think I may try it out and see how it works out.
Edit: Darn server lag on my end.
WOW, now those are some nice looking beads.
Most people don't recommend using a PC for Zaino. However, I have tossed around the idea as well. I always thought it would use up to much product but I think I may try it out and see how it works out.
Edit: Darn server lag on my end.
WOW, now those are some nice looking beads.
albertoiffrlw
New member
tetz said:
Im outining what has worked for me with the 3.76 years of experience working with the product. Experimentation, theres nothing wrong with it.