First time I can't correct it...

S

ScubaStevo

New member
I've put at least 10 hours of polishing into this 2004 Silverado, and it still looks like absolute garbage. No matter what I do, it will either haze or hologram. PC on a finishing pad hazes it with wax? hmmm.... Mind you this is only on the passanger side. I can finish off the hood and drivers side no problem.

Anyone with any insight as to what might do the trick, please for the love of god chime in.



Steve



Pass side fender. After about 50 passes of everythign I own, still no avail...

boatregalblack007.jpg




And the hood with about 4 stages on it. It looks brand new...



boatregalblack008.jpg
 
mshu7 said:
Could it be that the panel has been repainted and the damage is actually under the clear?
Click to expand...



Thats a great analysis.

It is extremely possible they didnt spray color up that high on the fender, but the clear SHOULD have filled in the swirls.



Might be too late, run a piece of 2000 over it and see if the swirls are still there.
 
What products are being used? Is the fender clean of swirls before you try to wax? Why not just apply wax by hand?



One day left of Winter!!! Please no more pictures with snow in it!!
 
Dont take this the wrong way but from the pics it looks like the hood is still swirled too...or is it my eyes playing tricks on me? Hoods of trucks can be stupid difficult sometimes because of the angle you are looking at it vs. the angle you are working on it. Once again, please dont take that wrong, im just trying to rule out every possibility.



Perhaps dirt in the pad? That fender is just wacked man!
 
Can someone explain how swirls can be under the clear? If clear covers prep sanding scratches, it's going to cover micro swirls.



ScubaSteve - Did you 2 step compound this one (XP Synthetic Cut/Power Cut Plus) ? If so, you're not finishing down enough or properly.
 
David Fermani said:
Can someone explain how swirls can be under the clear? If clear covers prep sanding scratches, it's going to cover micro swirls.



ScubaSteve - Did you 2 step compound this one (XP Synthetic Cut/Power Cut Plus) ? If so, you're not finishing down enough or properly.
Click to expand...



I'm well aware that it wouldn't finish down enough. And no, the drivers side is swirl free under the halogens and sunlight. Its simply the passanger side.



Here were my steps:



Synthetic cut on cutting pad

Synthetic cut on polishing

Power Cut on polishing

GS1 on polishing

Gs1 on finishing

50/50 glaze on finishing

Awesome gloss by hand



Honestly, with the amount of fillers that I've tried, it should have covered that up no problem. Pads around the problem neither, since I even tried breaking out a completely new set of pads once the first round looked like the above as well. This resulted in no difference.



EDIT: I see what you mean in the hood picture, the "swirls" you see are actually water marks when I washed down the fender for pictures.
 
A couple of things:

GS-1 isnt strong enough to remove the compounding marks created in the 1st few steps.? Did you try BC-1?



and/or



Repaint without enough hardener. Any signs of paint work on the problem panels?





Can you edit your above post to include wool or foam pads too?
 
David Fermani said:
A couple of things:

GS-1 isnt strong enough to remove the compounding marks created in the 1st few steps.? Did you try BC-1? I think you need a



and/or



Repaint without enough hardener. Any signs of paint work on the problem panels?





Can you edit your above post to include wool or foam pads too?
Click to expand...



They're all foam. I've tried a 50/50 blend of power cut and GS1. Still the same result.



Panels were definatly repainted.
 
David Fermani said:
Can someone explain how swirls can be under the clear? If clear covers prep sanding scratches, it's going to cover micro swirls.



ScubaSteve - Did you 2 step compound this one (XP Synthetic Cut/Power Cut Plus) ? If so, you're not finishing down enough or properly.
Click to expand...



I would say that David is right. Micro swirls should be filled easily when the clear coat is sprayed on.



If a DA is leaving micromarring, then you are dealing in trouble. The reasons it appears that you are not getting the swirls out is likely because you are either



a) creating new ones



Extremely soft paint requires a rotary polisher, a pad with no mechanical property, and perfect techique. It simply will not tolerate any less then perfection. I would try 3M UltraFina or Menzerna PO85rd as a finishing polish with a Lake Country Blue or Red pad. Work the polish for a while, then back down to 1000 rpm and gently work the polish for a while as well.

or



b) they are very deep



With EXTREMELY soft paint (stuff that makes Infiniti G paint seem hard), the impressions that cause swirling can be pushed deep into the film build. Because leveling paint with a pad doesn't remove just the high spots (like wetsanding which can be "safer" then compounding), you can actually "push" the swirls down as you chase them out. That means not only are you releveling the "highs" of the paint, but actually releveling the "lows" as well. It might take a lot of paint to finally catch up, and because the paint is so soft, even the minimal contact that occurs in the "lows" or valley of the micro-swirl can still remove enough paint to chase it further down.
 
Bad prep!

If the shop didn't scuff/sand the entire fender, ala Bronx style, I can see the swirls would remian. Ever see a "blended" bumper where they stop the clear right at the license plate and don't spray reducer to melt the line? You have 1/2 a clean bumper and 1/2 a pitted old scuffed up junk.



The clear would fill in the visible marks though.



Ill buy into the improperly mixed clear theory.

Or just bad / expired clear-reducer-hardner product.

Or mixing manufacturerers of the clear - reducer -hardner.
 
Prep really has no outcome on paint softness. It's all related to the amount of activator (hardener) that's mixed in the clear. Even if you have an extremely soft base coat (Sherman Williams is known for this), it won't effect the sofeness of the paint. Another thing people think too, is that paint that isn't baked, will be soft. You could paint a car in a garage (but have the accurate mix) and still have perfect hardness.
 
just be careful, if it is a repaint, you never know without a ptg how much paint you have to work with. sounds to me like a bad repaint.
 
'
eyesack said:
just be careful, if it is a repaint, you never know without a ptg how much paint you have to work with. sounds to me like a bad repaint.
Click to expand...
\r\n\r\nI know im new here, but after many months sifting through many many posts trying to find good info, it pains me to see someone with so very little experience giving advice. Especially after reading your most recent post. \r\n\r\nhttp://autopia.org/forum/machine-polishing/104389-after-some-practice-i-think-im-getting-hang-rotary.html\r\n\r\n\r\nSorry, I\'ll move on now.:bolt'
 
I just did this Accord today with a very similar process (this paint was soft too, but not nearly as soft). Turned out amazing.



Before:

002-1.jpg




After:

003.jpg




And a ranger with the exact combo as the silverado:



After about 20 dealer washes which can account for the swirls that have built up.



005-2.jpg
 
I second Todd's suggestion you finish it with the rotary and Ultrafina and pad. Soft paints are very difficult to finish out via PC due to micromarring issues.
 
I don't need to ask the obvious question, but did you clay bar it? Sometimes dirt can be picked up by the pad, and cause swirling. I also agree with everyone elses comments that you need to finish with Ultrafina. If you really want to correct that hood properly, I would Trizact 3000, then 3M's perfect-It 3000 line finishing with Ultrafina. There shouldn't be any problems after that.







John
 
If you have a soft paint condition (from improper repaint), it really can't be permanently corrected. Even if you finish down swirl free after buffing, you'll never fix the problem at hand. It will probably last just a few washes before the finish becomes micro swirled again (not referring to buffer trails). It's really just a temporary band-aide. The harder you cut into it the soft surface, the more deep marring you'll create, making it harder to finish down on. This would definitely be a vehicle you'd want to keep wool pads & heavy cut compounds away from.



ScubaStevo - Do you ever use wool pads? Instead of using 2 types of heavy compounds with foam, you could use a less aggressive one with wool and have a better, cleaner cut. The pictures you posted (on the panels w/o soft paint) look like they have some moderate RIDS that could potentially be removed with wool. It's always better to utilize the least amount of steps possible (least harsh approach) when doing defect removal. You could potentially create a better finish by using wool/heavy polish than foam/heavy compound. There would be less finessing needed to remove defects. You'll also have an easier time finishing down too by creating less marring due to the effects of the pad, not the compound.
 
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