Accumulator
Well-known member
Ron Ketcham said:
Yeah, the way it smooths out is really impressive! No worries about brush-marks/etc.
exterior plastics and trim
- Thread starter Envious Eric
- Start date
Yeah, the way it smooths out is really impressive! No worries about brush-marks/etc.
Kean
New member
Update.... I recieved my kit this week and decided to take a day and visit my Dad. To make a long story short, we pulled a bed panel on the Avalanche and tried it out. I've got a few questions after a couple of coats of the Color Gard but I also have pictures to illustrate my progress. I'll post up the details as soon as I get to a notebook. I don't want to continue without some further guidance.
Ron Ketcham
Active member
PM me, and keep in mind, the whole thing changes once you apply the UV-Gard.
Grumpy
Grumpy
Kean
New member
....will do in a bit. I uploaded the photos to PB and will forward along with my questions in the next hour or two (gotta step out for a few). I really appreciate this.
Kean
New member
PM sent with pics. ....thanks Ron.
Accumulator
Well-known member
I'd be interested in hearing about the apparent issues/concerns and their (presumed, fingers crossed!) resolution.
While I found the ETR kit Accumulator-proof, that was just one experience and, well...the more I know the less ignorant I am.
While I found the ETR kit Accumulator-proof, that was just one experience and, well...the more I know the less ignorant I am.
Kean
New member
....I'll keep you posted. I'm working with Ron currently and he's providing me with some options. My issue may be unique due to the issues he had mentioned previously with this model (i.e. the release agents on these panels I'm working on). However, I also think it's due in part by my inexperience with the product and my bubba-like finesse with such things.Accumulator said:
Kean
New member
I don't have a ton of time to give a detailed overview of my experiences with the ETR kit right now, but lets just I am a bit more encouraged after a third, light coat of the Color Gard via an airbrush.
To make a long story short, I admittedly had issues trying to apply CG using the supplied sponge brush. The product just didn't seem to want to spread and distribute on the surface when used sparingly per the instructions. Part of the issue I think was the texture of the finish, the brush itself (it was very flimsy and soft) and (the most likely culprit) my own inexperience & ham-handedness. As I tried to swipe the brush on the surface, many of the nooks and crannies simply were not getting any coverage. The sponge also seemed to be soaking up quite a bit of the product itself. It wasn't long before I removed the sponge from the handle and started using it by hand. I could only get coverage by pressing a bit on the sponge to release the product (using more of it) and by working it in. This obviously resulted in brush strokes which you will see in the following photos.
BACKGROUND: The application is a 2006 Chevy Avalanche and the panel I am working on is one of 3 horizontal pieces that cover the bed of the truck. The first two coats were done at my Dad's house (its his vehicle) and the third was done at my own home today (I took the panel with me to work on).
Here is the kit. Unfortunately, the Prep bottle had leaked half of it's contents during shipping and soaked the box and some of the contents (you can see the discoloration on the label:
Here's the panel I would be working on in its raw form:
Here's the first coat of the CG (using sponge brush and just sponge by itself):
Second coat (using sponge by itself). I was able to use more of a swiping motion at this point as recommended (applied easier):
Third coat applied today via airbrush at my home. The white-ish spot toward the bottom wiped off (my tennis shoe bumped the dry panel):
I discussed my progress with my Dad and decided I will drop the piece off this week so he can view it in person before we decide to proceed with the UV Gard.
I just want to give a big THANK YOU to Ron Ketcham (Grumpy) for helping me along the way. He has been very patient, supportive and a wealth of information. I know my issues have most likely been due to my own personal scenario and lack of experience with the product. also, tackling a large panel like this my first time out was probably not the best idea. Depending on how my Dad feels about it, I may end up buying a detail gun and going with that to finish the rest of the panels. The results with the airbrush look encouraging to me. ....I'll keep everyone posted.
btw Ron, I didn't see any flaking on the "thin" portions I could see on the edges when I scratched them with my nail. I'm hoping the release agents are not going to be a factor or were a factor. If we are going to proceed with the rest of the project using ETR, I will use your recommendation on prepping the other panels just in case there are residual agents on these surfaces. Thanks again for you help.
To make a long story short, I admittedly had issues trying to apply CG using the supplied sponge brush. The product just didn't seem to want to spread and distribute on the surface when used sparingly per the instructions. Part of the issue I think was the texture of the finish, the brush itself (it was very flimsy and soft) and (the most likely culprit) my own inexperience & ham-handedness. As I tried to swipe the brush on the surface, many of the nooks and crannies simply were not getting any coverage. The sponge also seemed to be soaking up quite a bit of the product itself. It wasn't long before I removed the sponge from the handle and started using it by hand. I could only get coverage by pressing a bit on the sponge to release the product (using more of it) and by working it in. This obviously resulted in brush strokes which you will see in the following photos.
BACKGROUND: The application is a 2006 Chevy Avalanche and the panel I am working on is one of 3 horizontal pieces that cover the bed of the truck. The first two coats were done at my Dad's house (its his vehicle) and the third was done at my own home today (I took the panel with me to work on).
Here is the kit. Unfortunately, the Prep bottle had leaked half of it's contents during shipping and soaked the box and some of the contents (you can see the discoloration on the label:
Here's the panel I would be working on in its raw form:
Here's the first coat of the CG (using sponge brush and just sponge by itself):
Second coat (using sponge by itself). I was able to use more of a swiping motion at this point as recommended (applied easier):
Third coat applied today via airbrush at my home. The white-ish spot toward the bottom wiped off (my tennis shoe bumped the dry panel):
I discussed my progress with my Dad and decided I will drop the piece off this week so he can view it in person before we decide to proceed with the UV Gard.
I just want to give a big THANK YOU to Ron Ketcham (Grumpy) for helping me along the way. He has been very patient, supportive and a wealth of information. I know my issues have most likely been due to my own personal scenario and lack of experience with the product. also, tackling a large panel like this my first time out was probably not the best idea. Depending on how my Dad feels about it, I may end up buying a detail gun and going with that to finish the rest of the panels. The results with the airbrush look encouraging to me. ....I'll keep everyone posted.
btw Ron, I didn't see any flaking on the "thin" portions I could see on the edges when I scratched them with my nail. I'm hoping the release agents are not going to be a factor or were a factor. If we are going to proceed with the rest of the project using ETR, I will use your recommendation on prepping the other panels just in case there are residual agents on these surfaces. Thanks again for you help.
Ron Ketcham
Active member
The panel will exhibit more "gloss" when you first apply the VERY important UVGard.
(NOTE to everyone-without the UVGard applied the color will not hold up/last)
That gloss will die off to an original sheen in a week or so. It's the nature of the product.
I have used my detail gun on occassion for doing large panels, after all, they provide a more even coverage of the ColorGard, even the UVGard.
Grumpy
(NOTE to everyone-without the UVGard applied the color will not hold up/last)
That gloss will die off to an original sheen in a week or so. It's the nature of the product.
I have used my detail gun on occassion for doing large panels, after all, they provide a more even coverage of the ColorGard, even the UVGard.
Grumpy
hacadacalopolis
New member
so how long does the step 2 and 3 last? parked outside ?
Ron Ketcham
Active member
According to independant testing done by both Hyundia and Mazda, 3 to 5 years.
Both companies have used the product on over 50,000 vehicles to resolve warranty issues.
Grumpy
Both companies have used the product on over 50,000 vehicles to resolve warranty issues.
Grumpy
Kean
New member
....well, bummer. I was about to put the finishing touches on that Avalanche panel yesterday and I discovered flaking of the Color Gard coat on the edges when scraped with my nail. This is what Ron warned me might happen due to the release agents (during the manufacture of these components). Anyhow, its going to rain tomorrow and I needed to give the panel back to my dad so he could place it back on his truck. I went ahead with one more coat of the CG applied via airbrush and 3 coats of the UVG. If anything, I just wanted to get a feel for how the UVG laid down with my airbrush. Personally, I think the end result came out awesome. The shine seemed to be more matte than with the CG alone and overall it came out very even.
I know it won't last long due to the issues specific to these components but I really don't see it as a wasted effort. I have a good feel for application of the product and I can see how good the resulting finish can look. As for the Avalanche, we are going to take a step back and weigh all options before proceeding.
I'll try to snap a few pics of the panel installed (for those interested) in the next few days or so. I had other projects going on this past weekend and had little time to do much else.
I know it won't last long due to the issues specific to these components but I really don't see it as a wasted effort. I have a good feel for application of the product and I can see how good the resulting finish can look. As for the Avalanche, we are going to take a step back and weigh all options before proceeding.
I'll try to snap a few pics of the panel installed (for those interested) in the next few days or so. I had other projects going on this past weekend and had little time to do much else.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Kean- Aww...sorry to hear it's proving so problematic 
Bill D
Hooked For Life
Because I take it most people don't have one, I wonder now if an airbrush is essential to getting the best results with this kit .....
Ron Ketcham
Active member
When the issue first came up at GM, I was called to Warren GM Tech Center to look at ways for Chevy to provide a field fix for the issue of the covers and some other parts of the formed ABS plastic parts.
Working with Bob Hartman and Brian Dottering, additionally,the vendor of the parts, it became very clear that due to the particular internal release agent used in forming the parts, the amount used, and that it would continue to leech out for years we attempted many methods to resolve this.
Our team even went so far at to attempt using a "refinish" painting of the parts.
We tried every solvent known to modern man, some aliphatic's, some aromatics, some clorinated, some really, really nasty, to remove the release agents from the substrate, none worked completely, so we then tried to move on to painting the parts.
Looked good for a while, but once we put the parts in the weathering chamber, heat/cold cycles, the dreaded xeon gas testing, etc, the paint started delaminating from the parts.
This was due to the release agent continuing to leech upwards to the surface, and we all know that paint does not like to, nor will it, stick to "waxey" materials, which is what the release agent may be compared to.
A lot of trucks were sold and lot of upset customers, so a "let's do what we can and keep the warranty claims down until they move out of the warranty period.
That is where the little foil packet of basically "varnish" became the fix recommended by GM.
Lasted longer than any dressing, but since no coating will stay attached under the circumstances, it had to be reapplied on a regular basis (still lasted longer than a dressing) and was not expensive.
Just think how long it has been since this issue raised it head and even after all these years, the release agent continues to migrate to the surface of the parts.
So, that's a little more background regarding this concern.
Grumpy
Working with Bob Hartman and Brian Dottering, additionally,the vendor of the parts, it became very clear that due to the particular internal release agent used in forming the parts, the amount used, and that it would continue to leech out for years we attempted many methods to resolve this.
Our team even went so far at to attempt using a "refinish" painting of the parts.
We tried every solvent known to modern man, some aliphatic's, some aromatics, some clorinated, some really, really nasty, to remove the release agents from the substrate, none worked completely, so we then tried to move on to painting the parts.
Looked good for a while, but once we put the parts in the weathering chamber, heat/cold cycles, the dreaded xeon gas testing, etc, the paint started delaminating from the parts.
This was due to the release agent continuing to leech upwards to the surface, and we all know that paint does not like to, nor will it, stick to "waxey" materials, which is what the release agent may be compared to.
A lot of trucks were sold and lot of upset customers, so a "let's do what we can and keep the warranty claims down until they move out of the warranty period.
That is where the little foil packet of basically "varnish" became the fix recommended by GM.
Lasted longer than any dressing, but since no coating will stay attached under the circumstances, it had to be reapplied on a regular basis (still lasted longer than a dressing) and was not expensive.
Just think how long it has been since this issue raised it head and even after all these years, the release agent continues to migrate to the surface of the parts.
So, that's a little more background regarding this concern.
Grumpy
hacadacalopolis
New member
Hmm...So is the ETR kit? a Dye? what is it
I would be using refinishing methods while using automotive aftermarket paints for severly damaged plastics. Such this case like the SEM color coat elastomeric paint, For exterior pieces-added clearcoat with a flattener.
I would be using refinishing methods while using automotive aftermarket paints for severly damaged plastics. Such this case like the SEM color coat elastomeric paint, For exterior pieces-added clearcoat with a flattener.
Ron Ketcham
Active member
It is an acrylic/latex emulsion, with a uv protecting clear that goes over the base black.
Works quite well applied by the sponges supplied in the kit.
Just don't try to apply by using a "swirl" method. Apply in straight lines,so it smooth outs as it dries.
Was intended originally for smaller trim parts, some times requires two coats to get even coverage.
There is a video of application on ValuGard's web site under training video's section.
The ETR kit has been around for over a decade, just marketed to the vehicle manufacturers, as ValuGard is not structored for detailers, consumers in it's marketing.
Grumpy
Works quite well applied by the sponges supplied in the kit.
Just don't try to apply by using a "swirl" method. Apply in straight lines,so it smooth outs as it dries.
Was intended originally for smaller trim parts, some times requires two coats to get even coverage.
There is a video of application on ValuGard's web site under training video's section.
The ETR kit has been around for over a decade, just marketed to the vehicle manufacturers, as ValuGard is not structored for detailers, consumers in it's marketing.
Grumpy
hacadacalopolis
New member
I see... I just checked out their website for the first time. I guess iv'e heard of em, but i have never really experienced or have seen many that use it. Bug & Tar looks interesting though.
Kean
New member
I feel the need to clarify a few things.....
First, PLEASE take my experiences with a grain of salt. I am rather ham-handed with anything that needs to be applied via a brush, sponge, etc. I will occasionally still have issues Opti-Seal to be honest.
Second, as Ron has pointed out several times (and I have mentioned), there are issues specific to the plastic bits I was working with.
Having said that, I can see how application of the CG and UVG components of the ETR kit would work just fine with applicators on smaller surfaces. The problem was that these panels I was working on were rather large and this was my first time ever using the product. I will say that (for me) application via airbrush worked great but consumption obviously increases by quite a bit. I'm actually eager to use the kit on something more compatible now.
I will try to take pictures of the refinished panel when I can. Both my Dad and I were impressed with the final result (unfortunate, rare compatibility issues aside).
Ron,
I want to thank you again for your help. Also, it's funny you mention the "waxy" characteristic since that is exactly what I used to describe one of the edges of an unfinished panel to my Dad. While the horizontal surface felt dry and a little rough, you could notice some of the edges (where I noticed the flaking problem on the panel I applied the UG/UVG to) felt smooth and (to me) kind of "waxy". It's really a shame because I can see how the ETR kit would have really made all of these bits on his truck look like new again. I might try the Xylene suggestion one one of the other panels to see if I can get rid of any remaining release agents. ....still think it's worth a try?
First, PLEASE take my experiences with a grain of salt. I am rather ham-handed with anything that needs to be applied via a brush, sponge, etc. I will occasionally still have issues Opti-Seal to be honest.
Second, as Ron has pointed out several times (and I have mentioned), there are issues specific to the plastic bits I was working with.
Having said that, I can see how application of the CG and UVG components of the ETR kit would work just fine with applicators on smaller surfaces. The problem was that these panels I was working on were rather large and this was my first time ever using the product. I will say that (for me) application via airbrush worked great but consumption obviously increases by quite a bit. I'm actually eager to use the kit on something more compatible now.
I will try to take pictures of the refinished panel when I can. Both my Dad and I were impressed with the final result (unfortunate, rare compatibility issues aside).
Ron,
I want to thank you again for your help. Also, it's funny you mention the "waxy" characteristic since that is exactly what I used to describe one of the edges of an unfinished panel to my Dad. While the horizontal surface felt dry and a little rough, you could notice some of the edges (where I noticed the flaking problem on the panel I applied the UG/UVG to) felt smooth and (to me) kind of "waxy". It's really a shame because I can see how the ETR kit would have really made all of these bits on his truck look like new again. I might try the Xylene suggestion one one of the other panels to see if I can get rid of any remaining release agents. ....still think it's worth a try?
what'sinaname
New member
On my new Chevy (badged a Holden here in Oz) I'm hoping that that using Collinite, Eagle One Gel Way and Eagle One Wax as you Dry will prevent trim discolouration and that application of 303 aerospace will keep it UV protected.