Detailing a fresh paint job

G

GBynum

New member
So I got into a wreck and my car is currently at the dealership's body shop getting fixed. When I get the car back, it's pretty much going to have a whole new front end. Since it's not a factory paint job, I don't know what the restrictions are on what I can do with it. I don't know if the brand really makes a difference here, but it's a 2014 Mustang GT.


 


I tried to organize my questions to make it clearer and easier to answer. Thanks guys.


 
  1. I just got my first DA polisher (G110V2). Is it safe to use the DA on the freshly painted panels?
    1. If so, can I use it to polish?
    2. Can I use it to apply sealant? (M20 or M21)
    3. Can I use the DA to apply wax? (Meg's Ultimate Liquid Wax)
  2. Would it be safe to apply a coat of wax by hand? (Meg's Ultimate Liquid Wax)
  3. Is it safe to clay the freshly painted areas?
  4. How long will it take for the paint to fully cure?
  5. Once the paint has fully cured, can I treat it like any other factory paint job?

     

Any extra info you guys can offer is also appreciated. Thank you.


 
 
We just had some paintwork done on Accumulatorette's A8 (sigh....terrible time of year for it but can't schedule damage).  While they're usually very good about such stuff, this time the shop caused some significant marring.  Note that I"ve been dealing with fresh paintwork regularly since the '70s and this isn't my first time around with the newer paint technology either.


 


1. Polishing fresh paint generally goes OK but it's often softer/easier to correc/maybe harder to finish down as it's usually a bit softer that it will eventually end up. Yeah, even if it's baked.


 


2. Opinions vary, David Fermani and I have argued this one out until finally agreeing to disagree.  I generally avoid LSPing fresh paint for at least three months as I don't want to interfere with the curing/outgassing lest the paint end up softer than it otherwise might.


 


I've used Meguiar's M05 New Car Glaze and 3M Imperial Hand Glaze for fresh paint and never had a problem, but both need redone after every wash.  BUT NOW...


 


After some testing, Ford has approved Optimum Car Wax for use on "post-production paintwork".  OK, probably good enough for me, though we'll see if I REALLY reach for that instead of the M05 when I actually clean the car up.


 


3. You shouldn't have to clay the fresh paint; it shouldn't be contaminated unless the car went through some kind of unusual circumstances.  But yeah, you can do it, just watch out for marring as the paint might be a little soft.


 


4. Three or four months.  And yeah, I've had paint continue to harden for that long.  I often go by the "if you can still smell it..." rule-of-thumb but that doesn't work too well in cold weather.


 


5. GENERALLY, yeah.  But I threw in that disclaimer because it's seldom as durable/tough as factory paint. Did the shop spray lots/plenty/hardly any clear?  There are a lot of variables so it's risky to generalize.  But most of my vehicles have had paintwork and I've hardly ever had issues with failure.
 
Ford and "post production" , wouldn't that only apply to Ford doing paint correction themselves? Not every body shop? Ford wouldn't know what other shops were doing?


OP.. Ask your painter how long to wait to do M21 etc.. He knows. Also after M21 etc a wax isn't needed.
 
I'll echo what Accumulator stated (mostly :) )


 
Jesstzn said:
Ford and "post production" , wouldn't that only apply to Ford doing paint correction themselves? Not every body shop? Ford wouldn't know what other shops were doing?


OP.. Ask your painter how long to wait to do M21 etc.. He knows. Also after M21 etc a wax isn't needed.
Click to expand...


 


Optimum had a close working relationship with Ford's experimental paint laboratory here in Michigan and I remember seeing a bunch of their polishes there way back in the day as well. I believe they did some testing on various refinish scenarios to determine that their protectants were safe for fresh paint finishes. Not sure if I'd consider that an endorsement from Ford, but I think they have some kind of documentation to support their findings. 
 
Jesstzn- Yeah, there are lots of variables and just because things were OK in the Ford testing that might not mean it's OK across the board.  Still, as I interpretted things (or at least as I remember the whole thing, this was a while ago...) it was a compelling endorsement *IMO*.


 


With regard to "ask the painter", I generally end up schooling body/paint guys more often than they school me...and I patronize pretty decent shops.


 


David Fermani- Haeh heh, yeah some, uhm....careful wording might've just made it come across as an explicit endorsement (given my casual reading of the info), if you know what I mean.


 


FWIW...I just applied OCW to the fresh paint on the A8's front bumper cover.  It doesn't seem to be stupid-soft and, well, I want something better than a glaze on it for daily-driver duty.  Hey, it's not like it's gonna really [mess] with it in the sense of clouding/failing/etc. and I washed it marring-free at its current level of hardness, so I don't feel like I'm running a big risk.
 
David Fermani- Oh man, what *hasn't* happened to that poor A8, especially the front bumper cover?!?  Good thing the shop is familiar with/certified on the aluminum cars (so I cut them slack about the occasional marring, which they're usually very good about).


 


THIS time (IIRC it's on its third or fourth bumper cover and maybe its ?sixth? painting of said part...) the vehicle ahead of/beside me hit what looked like a big blob of frozen slush.  I had nowhere to juke to due to surrounding traffic (NO, I'm not ducking responsibility; if it happens when I'm behind the wheel it's all on me) and I figured it'd be no biggie.  But I figured wrong; it was a *big rock* covered with frozen slush and it hit the front bumpercover like a cannonball.  Purely cosmetic for practical purposes; I disconnected the trashed foglight, wrapped the connection for it to avoid electrical gremlins, busted away the loose bits fo the bumpercover, and carried on for the duration of the trip.  No problem over the hundreds of miles at, uhm...decent speed.


 


Remember my "Deer Incident" with the S8?  This is the second time our Thanksgiving roadtrip ended up being done in a D2 series Audi that looked like something out of the movie Ronin. Even happened in the same general vicinity (early in the trip).  Eh, at least it was that car instead of the S8.  I'd decided to take the A8 instead at the last moment, just had a weird vibe about it.
 
Accumulator said:
I've used Meguiar's M05 New Car Glaze and 3M Imperial Hand Glaze for fresh paint and never had a problem, but both need redone after every wash.  BUT NOW...


 


After some testing, Ford has approved Optimum Car Wax for use on "post-production paintwork".  OK, probably good enough for me, though we'll see if I REALLY reach for that instead of the M05 when I actually clean the car up.


 


3. You shouldn't have to clay the fresh paint; it shouldn't be contaminated unless the car went through some kind of unusual circumstances.  But yeah, you can do it, just watch out for marring as the paint might be a little soft.
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I thought Meg's Ultimate Liquid Wax was technically a sealant since it's synthetic? I could try M05 too.


 


I just want to give the new clear coat a layer of protection since this is my daily driver, and I don't have a garage, just a car cover.


 


I looked up the Optimum, which appears to be a spray wax. That doesn't seem like it would give as much protection, so I see why you would apply after every wash, but I just want to make sure the clear is protected until it hardens.


 
Jesstzn said:
Ford and "post production" , wouldn't that only apply to Ford doing paint correction themselves? Not every body shop? Ford wouldn't know what other shops were doing?


OP.. Ask your painter how long to wait to do M21 etc.. He knows. Also after M21 etc a wax isn't needed.
Click to expand...


Sorry I didn't specify, the body shop that's repairing it is at a Ford dealership, and they do the painting in house. I had the car towed halfway across the St. Louis metro area because I know this place does good work.


 


I moved a year ago and had major issues when the local dealership outsourced my body work on my hood (small ding off the lot). The place they sent the car left compound (at least they claim it was compound; white specs) all over the car and under the hood. I never got it cleaned out under the hood completely, and it took hours of claying to get it off the body. They also cleared over dust which left little bumps. And every single time it rained, if I didn't use my cover, the areas they worked on would be covered in waterspots that were impossible to remove by hand. I had to keep taking it in so they could compound/polish it off by machine. Yet, despite the fact it only occurred where they painted, they refused to admit any fault, told me my trees must have weird sap.


 


^^^This is why I am so paranoid about protecting my clear coat this time.  :blink:


 
Accumulator said:
With regard to "ask the painter", I generally end up schooling body/paint guys more often than they school me...and I patronize pretty decent shops.


 


David Fermani- Haeh heh, yeah some, uhm....careful wording might've just made it come across as an explicit endorsement (given my casual reading of the info), if you know what I mean.


 


FWIW...I just applied OCW to the fresh paint on the A8's front bumper cover.  It doesn't seem to be stupid-soft and, well, I want something better than a glaze on it for daily-driver duty.  Hey, it's not like it's gonna really [mess] with it in the sense of clouding/failing/etc. and I washed it marring-free at its current level of hardness, so I don't feel like I'm running a big risk.
Click to expand...


Hell, I'm a newb and I've had various shops tell me such a wide variety of answers, I know at least some of them are full of it.


Although, the manager of a local Ford body shop used to own a detailing shop. He told me whenever I get body work done, apply a coat of protection immediately.


 


What do you mean it wasn't stupid-soft? Like your new clear coat? I don't even know how to tell. I'm guessing it's safer to do stuff to it if it's less soft.


 


What is the risk with waxing it anyway? Is it because I could damage it when removing the wax?
 
BlueBeast14GT- The whole concern with waxing/sealing fresh paint is the concern that it'll interfere with the outgassing/curing and thus prevent the paint from hardening up the way it would if you merely left it alone for a few months.  I've experienced the gradual hardening countless times and sometimes it's a truly dramatic difference.  And sometimes it takes months and months before it attains its ultimate hardness.


 


I'm a fanatic for hard paint so it matters a lot to me.  For me, hard paint is easier to keep marring-free, and I do mean *like nearly perfect for years on end* (talking year-round daily drivers that get *filthy* between washes).


 


 


When I say "stupid-soft" I mean paint that's easily marred (think BMW's Jet Black).  Plenty of fresh paintjobs have been so soft that I would mar them even with gentle treatment or that I couldn't finish the polishing out quite the way I wanted (at least not with my usual approaches).  After waiting a few months said paint hardened up and was no longer problematic. 


 


It's not just a synthetic vs. natural wax issue either; the whole idea of using a fresh-paint-safe product (e.g., the M05 New Car Glaze) started back before there *were* sealants.


 


No, the OCW won't protect like something such as FK1000P or many layers of some other sealants.  Nor like a "wax" (scare-quotes intentional as most all such products are hybrids) from Collinite.  BUT it'll protect a lot better than the usual glaze that's absoultely safe for the fresh paint and I wouldn't discount it just because it's a spray wax.  Hey, the A8 in question gets used *hard* and I'm OK with OCWing its front bumper cover  I for winter duty (I'm pretty fanatical about this stuff to say the least).  In the past I've just used a glaze, and generally done OK, but this time I'm opting for more protection.


 


Waxing shouldn't cause any marring unless 1) the paint or applicator or buffing towel is contaminated, 2) the paint is stupid-soft, or 3) something else, and very weird, is going on.


 


Oh, and I don't have any generalized issue with dealerhsip bodyshops; the shop that does most of my work is part of my Audi dealer.  Every shop does good/not-so-good/awful work but as long as they do more good than bad, then OK.  IME it's always a bit of a gamble anyhow.
 
Accumulator said:
BlueBeast14GT- The whole concern with waxing/sealing fresh paint is the concern that it'll interfere with the outgassing/curing and thus prevent the paint from hardening up the way it would if you merely left it alone for a few months.  I've experienced the gradual hardening countless times and sometimes it's a truly dramatic difference.  And sometimes it takes months and months before it attains its ultimate hardness.


 


I'm a fanatic for hard paint so it matters a lot to me.  For me, hard paint is easier to keep marring-free, and I do mean *like nearly perfect for years on end* (talking year-round daily drivers that get *filthy* between washes).


 


 


When I say "stupid-soft" I mean paint that's easily marred (think BMW's Jet Black).  Plenty of fresh paintjobs have been so soft that I would mar them even with gentle treatment or that I couldn't finish the polishing out quite the way I wanted (at least not with my usual approaches).  After waiting a few months said paint hardened up and was no longer problematic. 


 


It's not just a synthetic vs. natural wax issue either; the whole idea of using a fresh-paint-safe product (e.g., the M05 New Car Glaze) started back before there *were* sealants.


 


No, the OCW won't protect like something such as FK1000P or many layers of some other sealants.  Nor like a "wax" (scare-quotes intentional as most all such products are hybrids) from Collinite.  BUT it'll protect a lot better than the usual glaze that's absoultely safe for the fresh paint and I wouldn't discount it just because it's a spray wax.  Hey, the A8 in question gets used *hard* and I'm OK with OCWing its front bumper cover  I for winter duty (I'm pretty fanatical about this stuff to say the least).  In the past I've just used a glaze, and generally done OK, but this time I'm opting for more protection.


 


Waxing shouldn't cause any marring unless 1) the paint or applicator or buffing towel is contaminated, 2) the paint is stupid-soft, or 3) something else, and very weird, is going on.


 


Oh, and I don't have any generalized issue with dealerhsip bodyshops; the shop that does most of my work is part of my Audi dealer.  Every shop does good/not-so-good/awful work but as long as they do more good than bad, then OK.  IME it's always a bit of a gamble anyhow.
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Accumulator, you are always a big help. Thank you, man.


 


I tried looking for the M05, and it looks like most places are out of it. It's not even listed on Meg's website anymore. Did they discontinue it? I read that M07 is basically the same thing, but M05 is better for humid environments. StL is famous for it's humidity, so I'd prefer the M05.


 


I'll order some of the OCW then, thank you. How much do you usually go through? I'm trying to decide on the spray bottle or the gallon for about $50. I'm thinking if I'll be using it on half the car after every wash for the next few months, then the gallon would be a good investment.


 


So do I need to be extra careful when washing as well? On the paint I use Meg's microfiber mitt, one for top one for bottom, Meg's Gold class car wash, 2 buckets with grit guards, and I try to be as gentle as I can (while still eliminating all the bird bombs).
 
BlueBeast14GT- Glad to be helpful.


 


I haven't bought the M05 for ages, and I got the feeling I was maybe the only person on the planet still using it!  Sorry to see it go after all that time..


 


The M07 is tricky to use, I'd skip that and just go with the OCW.  I think it'll go a *lot* farther than you'd think, so a regular spray bottle should suffice.  And wait and see if you really *need* to redo it after every wash, it might hold up better than that (I haven't washed the A8 since applying to its front bumpercover yet...).


 


When washing, yeah...just be as gentle as you can and avoid long, sweeping motions (long wash-induced marring marks show a lot worse than short ones).  Remember that once abrasive stuff gets stuck to the mitt it becomes like sandpaper (no, the dirt doesn't really get safely caught in the nap).  Get *ALL* the dirt off before you dry (residual dirt is the Devil as it gets ground into the paint when you dry) and spritz some QD, or better yet a rinseless wash product, on the surface before touching it with your drying media.  Again, always avoid long, sweeping motions.


 


Some Meg's MF washmitts were notorious scratch-machines, I'd avoid them (I use Boar's Hair Brushes for the first passes, then sheepskin, but then I always flush the surface with soapy output from a Gilmour Foam Gun too which provided constant lubrication and flushing).  I'm not a fan of GC car wash, mediocre lubricity IME; I prefer Griot's and plan to try the much less expensive DuraGloss, Optimum (regular shampoo, not their no-rinse), or HD Pink Soap (I hear all three are very, very good).


 


Eh, washing without marring is simply *tough* no matter what.  Sometime I really do need to write up my current approach, it'll be one long read and I just never get around to doing it.
 
Accumulator,


 


That sucks I just ordered 2 more of the Meg's mitts haha.


 


Did you mean to say "brush"? I've never heard of using a brush on the paint.


 


Any specific recommendations on the boar's hair or sheepskin? I've been thinking about making the switch from MF mitts. 


 


Perhaps I'll try another wash as well. I really like the GC wash, but I don't have much to compare it to. I was thinking about trying one of Meg's detailing line washes since you can get them by the gallon. I just have to watch my money, this stuff gets out of hand quick!


 


If you wrote that up, I'd definitely bookmark it.
 
BlueBeast14GT- NO, don't buy a different Meguiar's shampoo.  Look into one of the three I mentioned in the last reply.


 


For a good Boar's Hair Brush ("BHB") look into the "Montana" at AutoGeek.net or the "Blonde" ones at UniversalBrush.com.  DO NOT buy any others, those are the only good ones on the market (Universal makes the Montana and has them on their site too).


 


I'm not picky about sheepskin mitts, but some people are.  I fill them with shampoo mix and whisk them across the surface rather than wearing them like a glove.  Clean *VERY* small areas at a time (in the absence of a foamgun I'd never clean more than maybe 1/4-1/3 of a small panel at a time).
 
Accumulator said:
BlueBeast14GT- NO, don't buy a different Meguiar's shampoo.  Look into one of the three I mentioned in the last reply.


 


For a good Boar's Hair Brush ("BHB") look into the "Montana" at AutoGeek.net or the "Blonde" ones at UniversalBrush.com.  DO NOT buy any others, those are the only good ones on the market (Universal makes the Montana and has them on their site too).


 


I'm not picky about sheepskin mitts, but some people are.  I fill them with shampoo mix and whisk them across the surface rather than wearing them like a glove.  Clean *VERY* small areas at a time (in the absence of a foamgun I'd never clean more than maybe 1/4-1/3 of a small panel at a time).
Click to expand...


Haha ok ok, I won't get Meguiar's. I will look into those, thank you.


I've just used mostly Meg's for a long time, hard to change old habits...


 


I still can't believe you're using a brush on the paint. I'll make sure I get that one :)


 


Man it must take you forever just to wash! I usually do panels in 1-3 sections, depending on size, doors are 3 for instance. It definitely takes me forever though. I've thought about getting a foam gun too, I just didn't really see the point.
 
BlueBeast14GT- One Meguair's was that's not all *that* bad is their M62, if that's still on the market.  Eh, I'm just using mine up on wheelwells/undercarriages and sticking with the others I mentioned for "the areas that show".  Heh heh, I do know from old habits, note my fondness for that M05, which I've used since forever.  The scent of many Meguiar's products takes me back decades.


 


The BHB is *SO* soft that, when used properly (i.e., very gently, don't press so hard that the bristles bend over to where their shafts touch the paint, you want *only* the flagged bristle tips touching the paint, and remember, no long, sweeping motions!) it won't even get all the dirt off.  Gotta follow up with a mitt to get the more tenacious roadfilm stuff off after the BHB "knocks loose" the "big stuff" that IMO is most likely to cause marring.


 


Always test wash media (wet with shampoo mix, not dry) on the data side of a CD.  If you can wash the CD without marring it then it should be OK to use on your paint.  Gotta test the BHBs now and then as they do wear out eventually.



Yes indeed, a quick maintenance wash (working so fast that it's as  tough as a hard workout) takes me at least four hours and usually longer.  And my shop's set up with redundant systems on each side of the washbay so I don't have to move stuff around the car; I try to be as efficient about this stuff as possible and I don't spend *one minute* longer than I believe I need to.  But note that I spend the first and last hours on the undercarriage and underhood areas too.


 


The point of the foamgun is to provide the constant lubrication and flushing.  My wash technique revolves around the concept of "dislodge and flush".  Note that even when I wash an utterly winter-filthy vehicle, my rinse buckets stay clean because the foamgun flushes the dirt away (so it's not stuck to the wash media where it could cause marring while they are moved across the paint).  I consider my foamguns absolutely indispensable; they're how I wash marring-free and I won't wash without one, period.
 
Man I have been searching detailing forums for like 5 minutes trying to find some definition for CD other than California Duster and wondering what the hell the "data side" could mean for anything relating to cars, at least any part that could be washed. But you mean a compact disk! Lol


 


Thank you for the brush explanation. I looked them up, and I definitely cannot afford that right now, but perhaps down the line. I think I'll get a couple of the sheepskin wash mitts from AutoGeek. They're $35 when you buy two ($20 individually), so that's perfect. I just came across another thread where you said the microfiber mitts hold on to dirt. I have noticed that, and I am very thorough about cleaning the mitt during pit stops to the buckets. Sometimes I also give the mitt a good spray with the hose after rinsing, just to make sure. However, I'm seeing a lot of people saying they don't like the wool and sheepskin mitts as much for just that reason: they don't pick up as much dirt, so the dirt gets moved around and causes swirls. But then others are saying that's why they do like them, because the dirt rinses off of the mitt easily, doesn't get trapped, and doesn't continue to mar. Sounds like 2 sides of the same coin to me. A lot of people also mentioned microfiber chenille mitts as a good alternative. I have a green chenille, I think from Griots, that I use for my wheels. The little strands are good at getting into the crevices. 


 


Wow, that's even longer than me. The only undercarriage work I do is the wheel wells. I do hit any painted parts that are hidden underneath, but I don't know if that qualifies. I sometimes get under the hood, but not always. I usually pop the trunk since that area is so bad at trapping debris in the stangs. And I try to get in the doors; I'll do a full wash if it's been a while, QD if it's not bad.


 


Yeah I may have to get one of those foam guns. The first time I heard of them was from one of the Junkman's videos. He recommended the Gilmour 95QGFMR Foamaster II. Just spraying with the hose doesn't get all the stuck on debris off the car before using the mitt, so I see how that could help. Do you keep the whole car soapy until you're ready to rinse the whole thing? I used to do that, but recently I've started rinsing after each section I wash, then I just keep it wet until I'm finished.
 
BlueBeast14GT- Heh heh, yeah....CD as in Compact Disc/DVD/etc.  Sheepskin = wool IMO, but that's just me.  I do use MF, but generally recommend the sheepskin.


 


I do one panel at a time, here's how I 'd do it in your case: rinse, spray foamgun output on panel, fill mitt with wash solution from bucket, whisk mitt across small area of panel while spraying foamgun output at point of mitt-to-paint contact, rinse, inspect, repeat.


 


Yeah, one section at a time but keep the whole vehicle wet.


 


The issue with "dirt's on the mitt, I'm gonna rinse it off" is that time between when the mitt gets dirty and when your rinse it out.  Used properly, the foamgun will flush away the dirt as the mitt dislodges it (but it doesn't work as well for that as the pricey BHB).  That takes the "mitt retains the dirt" vs. "dirt gets moved around, causing marring" thing out of the picture.


 


Small BHBs are *great* for cleaning the tight spots on wheels, but I still need small mitts/sponges to clean the back sides of the spokes and areas like that.


 


I prefer the other Gilmour, the one with the sliding brass bar, over the all-plastic Foamaster II, but that's just me.  Ditch the pistol grip and replace it with a shutoff valve, that'll be a lot more ergonomic (and mount it to the hose with a full-flow quick disconnect).


 


I'm a bit extreme about this whole thing, but yeah...my undercarriage/underhood areas are pretty much concours-perfect even on the beater cars.  No mechanic will ever get his hands dirty working on my stuff (more like they wear those gloves to avoid getting fingerprints on my suspension).  Makes it very easy to see if something needs attention (minor leaks/seepage is obvious and I can notice anything else that needs fixed long before it's a real issue) and it also makes the vehicle easier and more pleasant to work on. 
 
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