Detailing a fresh paint job

I'll echo everything Accumulator said about BHB. I pretty much follow the same procedure but I'm a fan of Chemical Guys Citrus Wash and Gloss, whereas he uses Griot's. But that's probably the biggest difference in our wash techniques. He got me hooked on the 10" Montana brush a year ago and there have been very few times I've needed to go after the brush with another media to get any remaining dirt. The gilmour 75, i think, gun is the one you want, with the brass sliding bar. I've got two. One for the soap I mentioned and the other for CG maxisuds soap which I just setup for maintenance washing. I keep the pistol grip, but now that he mentions it, I'll try without and a shutoff.


 


Keeping in mind Accumulator does a lot of other work in the 4 hours quoted, just the wash, no drying, portion of my washes takes about 20-30 minutes (have never actually timed it so just guessing) with BHB and foam gun. This is probably 50-75% of the time it takes me with the two bucket method. A significant savings for me.
 
Accumulator - 


 


When you're spraying the foamgun at point of contact, I assume you're dispensing at that point (also assuming it has the option to switch to just water). So are you spending a lot on solution for the foam gun? I bet you can guess my next question: any suggestions for foam gun solution?


 


Is this the Gilmour you're talking about? http://www.amazon.com/Gilmour-75QGFMR-Foamaster-Adjustable-Cleaning/dp/B000XTH1GY/ref=sr_1_2?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1389821198&sr=1-2&keywords=gilmour+foamaster


 


I'm still going to have to wait on the BHB. For now I think at least switching mitts will help. I've narrowed my choices to these:
  1. http://www.autogeek.net/sponwasmit.html
  2. http://www.autogeek.net/carpro-wool-wash-mitt.html
  3. http://www.autogeek.net/2in1washmitt.html
  4. http://www.carpro-us.com/microfiber-madness-incredimitt/

2 is only one-sided, I like being able to turn it over and get more use between rinses.


3 might as well be one sided most of the time. Plus that nylon mesh worries me as far as marring.


And I know 4 isn't wool, but people seem to love the thing. It seems to share the benefit of easily releasing the dirt like wool.


 


I'm also considering the LC Ulti-mitt. People rave about the sponge version. This is the same thing in mitt form.


 


I actually like using the mitt as a mitt. It helps me not drop the thing. So I gotta ask, what exactly do you mean by "whisk"? I'm picturing just lightly brushing it against the surface of the paint is short strokes, quickly lifting it away, so that the full brunt of the thing doesn't make contact. In my head this seems like it wouldn't really remove much, especially when I get to stuck on bug, bird stuff, etc. Currently, my technique is to lightly glide the soaked mitt across the paint, with my hand inside. I don't press unless I get a trouble spot that just won't come loose. And then I localize the pressure.


 


Full flow quick disconnect... I am using one of these http://www.amazon.com/Gilmour-Garden-Connector-Shut-Off-03V/dp/B0006U66B6/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1389821052&sr=1-1&keywords=shut+off+valve


 


immediately followed by this http://www.amazon.com/Gilmour-Brass-Hose-Quick-Connector/dp/B0008IT0GE/ref=sr_1_3?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1389819965&sr=1-3&keywords=gilmore+quick+connect


Actually, the shut off valve is a slightly different design, but same thing. So is that "full-flow"?


 



 


 


dfoxengr -

 
Is the 75 I posted above the one? Yeah my entire prep (as in getting all my crap together, not claying etc), wash, dry takes around 2 hours. The wash is probably... actually I have no idea, if you include door jams, and wheels, yeah no clue haha. Hey if the foam gun is gonna save me time, I'm even more all for it. But the brush still has to wait. I really need to get quicker.
 
Thats the gun, the "mr" in the name means "multi ratio".


I put about 1 inch which should he qbout 3 to 4 oz in the cup, rest is water. The bar all the way to the right is pure water. Theres like 5 clicks and i use the first (lowest strength) click. It still produces a ton of foam at this soap ratio since i put a bunch in the cup. With flushng 100% of the time my bhb is on the paint i can do 2 cars easily per cup and sometimes 3. So still only about 1 to 1.5 oz of soap per car.


By whisk, he originally told me jiggle, but yeah you have the idea. Only the tip of the hair touches the paint, it maybe bends 1/4 inch. You move just a couple inches back and forth at a time. As youll see it doesnt remove completely caked on stuff so bird poo dried on there without a base of lsp, it probably wont do, nor tar. But for 90% of my washing it does get everything
 
BlueBeast14GT- Heh heh, if you add up all the times I answer Qs about washing, I'm spending more time that I would just writing it up in an article!


 


Yeah, I spray the foamgun output so it's always flushing the point where the mitt is touching the paint.  When using the foamgun I "jiggle" the mitt/BHB (as dfoxengr mentioned) so that 1) the motions are shorter (no long sweeping...) and 2) I believe this makes it easier for the foamgun output to flush away dislodged dirt.


 


I mix up gallons of concentrate and fill the foamgun from those jugs.  I mix about 6.5 oz. shampoo/remainder water to make a gallon and I use the three strongest foamgun settings, usually the next-to-strongest one.  Yes, I do indeed use a lot of shampoo!


 


For the mitts, I'd just get the regular (first on your list) one. I haven't used the CarPro/numer four on your list, but it intrigues me and might be very good. Whatever you get, fold the elastic cuff inside the mitt so it doesn't touch the paint.  I don't use both sides; I fill the mitt with wash solution from the wash bucket and that seeps out while I'm using it.  I rinse/refill/etc. when the solution in the mitt has all seeped out.


 


IMO/IME wearng it like a glove results in too much pressure being exterted on the paint (well, technically I should say "...being exterted on the dirt that's on the paint").  Your current technique makes me think that you're covering a *LOT* more area than I would.  I discount the sponge versions for the same reason- too hard ot avoid applying excessive pressure.  Yeah, it *is* more challenging to avoid dropping the things when you do it my way.


 


Here's the real test of a wash technique- are you marring the paint?  IMO if you need to polish every year to keep things basically perfect, then something is very wrong (I haven't polished out any wash-induced marring for ages and some of my vehicles get used awfully hard).


 


I can't tell if the shutoff/quick disconnect is full-flow or not.  I usually have to go by product descriptions or hold it in my hand.  I use plastic Gilmour shutoffs and those come in "regular" and "full flow" versions.  But IMO it's not a big deal either way and I got by fine for ages with the standard ones.


 


dfoxengr brought up a good point- for any of this to work OK you need to have a good, slick LSP on there, one that'll shed contamination readily.
 
dfoxengr - thanks for the tips. I'll have to come back to this once I get the thing for my ratios. Yeah, once I get the lsp on that should be easier. I just have trouble keeping the lsp on.


 


Accumulator - I gotta start saving my left over gallon containers, nice idea.


 


Other people on here make it sound like they polish all the time, and you don't even do it annually! Impressive.


 


I checked it out, it's not full flow. I avoided the plastic just because I'm afraid it'll break, but it would be nice to have better water flow. I'll try it out.
 
BlueBeast14GT- The plastic shutoffs are less fragile than I'd expected, but eventually they do start to leak at the point where the base (which swivels) connects to the body of the thing.  I still like them despite the shorter working life because they're less likely to do damage in the case of an "oops!".


 


Yeah, Autopia is in many ways all about paint correction.  But my view is that a vehicle only has so much clearcoat/paint and it's not a good idea to keep abrading it away.  Plus, I simply don't like doing it!  I don't mind washing, and I'm OK with LSPing.  But getting marred paint flawless just isn't my idea of fun, and it just screams "you don't know how to treat your car!" to me.  When a used-hard daily driver goes years without getting any appreciable marring, that, to me, says that my wife and I are doing things right.  And yeah, we haul dogs almost daily and my wife has kids and other non-Autopians in her car quite often.


 


Those inexpensive brass connectors sound like a good deal!


 


Oh, and regarding the foamgun ratios, I'm not all that precise about it (to say the least); I have a "roughly one oz. per squirt" dispensor on my jug of shampoo.  I fill an empty gallon jug about 2/3 with water and give it 6 1/2 squirts of shampoo (that half-squirt is probably widely variable but I don't care) and then fill it the rest of the way with water.  If a panel is really dirty I use the stronger settings, if not I use the "one hole showing on the right-hand side" setting.  Simply no need to be more precise IME, but then my usual LSPs are simply *impervious* to the Griot's Car Wash I'm using.
 
Well my "oops" usually involves dropping the thing on the driveway. I don't think I've ever hit it on the car. I used to hit the hose on the car or get it caught under the tires, but I started placing 5 gallon buckets of water (or maybe one of ice and beer) at each corner. They also double as convenient hand washing spots. I keep a tiny bottle of dawn in my kit just for washing chems off my hands mid-detail.


 


I would prefer not to mar the paint, for sure, but I am my own worst enemy. I can be impatient, and eventually I'm going to stick my hand in the mitt and say "f it." But I will definitely attempt these techniques. Eventually I'm sure I'll get them down  :)


 


Yeah I estimate some of my measurements too. Like the wash I usually just turn it horizontal for a second, then fill the rest with water. Seems about right,
 
Very interesting reading in this thread, especially around the washing methodologies  -thanks to all who have contributed.


 


If I may I would like to go back to the beginning of the thread where it is mentioned that waxing/sealing of fresh paint is not recommended, in order to allow sufficient time for the out-gassing to occur and for the paint to cure to its intended hardness. I completely understand this principal.... however is this principal still applicable to water-based paints? My understanding is that as that because solvents are not the carrier, no actual out-gassing occurs?
 
LawrenceSA- Sorry to have gone so off-topic, you know how I can be when the subject of washing comes up!


 


IME *something* continues to happen over time with the water-based stuff.  Over the course of (coincidentally!)  three months or so, the fresh paint as "shrunk"/"died back"/whatever-it-does so that previously invisible prep marks/sanding scratches gradually became visible.  As long as *something* is going on, I'm hesitant to risk interfering with it, whatever the "something" really is.


 


Sure can't go by the smell any more though, it's much less pronounced than it used to be.  Not entirely gone, but certainly subdued compared to the old days.


 


BlueBeast14GT-  I wear dishwashing gloves when I wash, usually just cheapie generic ones.


 


And at my, heh heh, advanced age, I've learned to not just say "[F] it" when I'm tempted to cut corners.  I've found that I am the "it" who gets [screwed].
 
Accumulator- That's funny. I was going to ask what you recommend for gloves.


 


Oh I know in the long run it will hurt me. I am getting better though. I put a ton of time and patience into this thing. And until this thread I didn't think there was anything wrong with the way I was washing.


 


By the way, you never told me which shampoo you use for the foam gun. Do you just use the same stuff you put in your wash bucket?
 
Accumulator said:
I'm not a fan of GC car wash, mediocre lubricity IME; I prefer Griot's and plan to try the much less expensive DuraGloss, Optimum (regular shampoo, not their no-rinse), or HD Pink Soap (I hear all three are very, very good).
Click to expand...


 


I get my car back in exactly 1 week!  :D So I'm finally putting in an order for some of the stuff we've been discussing, but I cannot for the life of me find HD Pink Soap. Did you mean 3D Pink Soap? >>>> http://www.autopia.org/forum/topic/127005-pink-car-soap/


 


Man shipping is killing me. Can I just drive to FL and pick it up? I could use some time away from the midwest tundra B)  Jk, but it does suck haha.
 
BlueBeast14GT- I've been using Griot's Car Wash (both in the bucket and the foamgun) exclusively for years, but I do plan to try the HD Pink Car Soap (yeah, the one you linked to).


 


The Wookie's Fist could be fine, I'd have the following concerns before I made up my mind:


-Wash media can be *too gentle*, as in "so gentle it doesn't even get the dirt off", which leads to poor wash technique like excessive pressure.  As long as it's soft enough that it won't scratch the paint in-and-of itself, then it's gentle enough IMO (but then there are other concerns to consider)


-Some long nap wash media will get caught in trim/etc. and shed.  The long nap can also trap (abrasive) dirt which will work its way to the paint and do damage (rinsing 100% can be a challenge)


-Long and very gentle nap can "fold over" to where you're using the sides of the nap as opposed to the tips.  OK, that's how most people wash anyhow, but it goes against my "whisk the ends of it across the paint" and can lead to dirt getting trapped in the mitt instead of being free to get flushed away by the foamgun


 


NOT saying the Fist isn't perfectly OK, just giving more food for thought.  Note that I'm just *all* about "dislodge and flush"; remember that if I find dirt in my rinse buckets after washing a filthy vehicle I figure I did something very wrong (and that hardly ever happens).
 
I didn't even think of the hairs getting caught. I hate that, it's so hard to get stuff out of those tight spots. Don't worry, I'm not really going to get that one, I'm going with the basic ones I showed you.


 


"<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'helvetica neue', helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">if I find dirt in my rinse buckets after washing a filthy vehicle I figure I did something very wrong (and that hardly ever happens)" I'm just baffled by your attention to detail/perfection. Please come show my fiance your wash technique so she can get some perspective and see I'm not all that obsessed.


 


<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'helvetica neue', helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">I think I'm going to get the duragloss or the optimum wash. Leaning towards the optimum to really give lubrication on the fresh paint.
 
-Long and very gentle nap can "fold over" to where you're using the sides of the nap as opposed to the tips.  OK, that's how most people wash anyhow, but it goes against my "whisk the ends of it across the paint" and can lead to dirt getting trapped in the mitt instead of being free to get flushed away by the foamgun


 


I find the Carpro Sheepskin mitt great for avoiding this problem--the mesh pocket fits snug enough that it allows you to hold the mitt so it's just touching the surface of the paint with  enough pressure to remove the grime without compressing it against the paint.   Another advantage is that it drys very well and relatively quickly because it doesn't have the thick leather pocket.
 
pwaug said:
 



-Long and very gentle nap can "fold over" to where you're using the sides of the nap as opposed to the tips.  OK, that's how most people wash anyhow, but it goes against my "whisk the ends of it across the paint" and can lead to dirt getting trapped in the mitt instead of being free to get flushed away by the foamgun


 


I find the Carpro Sheepskin mitt great for avoiding this problem--the mesh pocket fits snug enough that it allows you to hold the mitt so it's just touching the surface of the paint with  enough pressure to remove the grime without compressing it against the paint.   Another advantage is that it drys very well and relatively quickly because it doesn't have the thick leather pocket.



 
Click to expand...


Thanks for the tip. I have heard that people love that mesh pocket. Do you get the hairs caught in the trim? They still look pretty long... 
 
pwaug- Yeah, I think that "ability to use a light touch" even came up on the intro thread for the CarPro mitt, but I can't quite remember for certain.  Some day I bet I'll get one myself.


 


Guess the "trap the nap" thing will just depend on the vehicle, some of mine are simply tough in that regard.


 


BlueBeast14GT- Noting that I haven't tried either of them, I don't think I's assume that the Optimum has better lubricity than the DuraGloss.  Beware of advertising hype.


 


 


Hey, as you mentioned your fiance...when my wife and I first got together she had *zero* clue about this stuff and... well for instance I had to buy her a new car so her old one's rust wouldn't ruin my garage floor or driveway!  Now she's 100% onboard with "showcar daily drivers" and even has all the inlaws (including numerous kids) properly trained about how to behave around our vehicles.  She simply loves having her 14 year old, 120K mile Audi looking like new.


 


And, heh heh....you think I'm extreme about my vehicles, eh I'm pretty much like that about life in general B) 
 
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