Clay Bar Holder?

4

47ho

New member
I have a 2001 BMW and about the clean the leather. I have read the archives about clear coated leather and what not, all they did was confuse me more. Bottom line is should I use leather conditioner on it or not?





Thanks,

M.D.
 
Leather Conditioner one or two times a year is fine , just use a good vinyl protectant like 303 the rest of the time.
 
The bottom line is:



If you have clear coated leather, clean them with a leather cleaner often, and condition them with a leather cleaner about 4 times a year to maintain its natural suppleness.



In between the conditioning, just dress it with a water-based vinyl/rubber protectant like 303 Aerospace.
 
ok thanks for the advice. BTW why does Griots Garage say thier product is better than lanolin based cleaners. What's wrong with lanolin?
 
BMW leather has been clear coated since about 1987, so you should clean it with a good mild interior cleaner, then treat with a water based polymer dressing that you would use on your vinyl, i prefer 303. I can see using conditioner like once a year to try to keep the leather unerneith soft but most who I have talked to beleive that frequent use of theese feedin oils might start to deteroirate the clear.
 
I suggest you search on "clear coat" and "top coats" for the prior discussions on this. For the record, in the industry, it's called at "top coat," not a "clear coat."



I am not an authority on leather, let alone top coats, but, I cannot find any articles, analysis, studies, etc. or any SOURCE for this "conditioners harm top coats" idea. A month ago, I posted a request for anyone who knew to post a source for the idea. No one had any replies. The only authoritative sources I have read -- auto leather manufacturors -- say to regularly use conditioners. Eagle Ottawa is one of the big three tanners. Their conditioner is almost all oil. That is not proof, but it raises questions about the notion that oil harms top coats. TraderAlex1, a trader in hides who posts on Edmunds, says that the big three have tested the national brands of conditioners, and say that they are OK. That does not mean they are right, its just that it is more actual data than I have heard quoted in support of the "oil-based conditioners harm top coats" idea.



Without meaning to be overbearing, as far as I know, its just a rumour . . . an old wife's tale. If anyone has an authoritative link, I would love to see it and would be more than willing to change this view. Until we see an authoritative link, I think we should consider putting the idea in the "suspect" catagory and we should not pass the idea along until we have some evidence or authority for the idea. Of course, that is just my view!
 
this topic irks me, i've been in limbo trying to find out what to do, and i've posted a thread or two on this to no avail.



darbh, I believe the industry uses the word "finished". most if not all autoleathers are finshed. Whether that it is just a topcoat or some sorta surface changing process that protects the leather, I don't know.



But I wish that someone would decide. Every leather only conditioner out there has oil in it and no one (even if it does) will claim otherwise.



I did a rub test on my leather seat and no color rubbed off it. I did the same test on a leather bookbag and the black rubbed right off. Now I treat the bookbag with tradition conditioners, the question is should I treat my finished seats with the same or similar stuff? you guys decide my leather is black and grainy italian type leather not smooth so products like 303 make the leather look way to dry for my purposes



(sorry for not answering much and raising yet more questions, just me thinking out loud again to get others involved, of course)
 
I think using the conditioner sparingly like 2-3 times a year with a protectant in between is a good plan until a clear cut answer is found on whether the conditioners do harm the leather in the long run.
 
How could conditioners do harm?????? All it is natural oils for the leather underneath.



Who is to say 303 and the like do not harm the top coat or what ever you want to call it.



I would guess harsh cleaners and chemicals would do more damage than some oils!



I for one will keep using leather conditioners! I use water & MT to clean. Hey if it looks good and smells good than it makes me happy!



:bounce :bounce
 
From the www.autoint.com site...

http://www.autoint.com/ford_leather.htm

Here is a portion of that link...

The world has become a technical and complex place. Many in the car wash, detailing, and collision repair industries rely on their suppliers to provide not only products, but the technical know how to use these products.

Unfortunately, not all suppliers or distributors have the ability or knowledge to provide accurate information to the trade. Some do not want to divulge what they call "Trade Secrets".

Dressings sold for leather, rubber, and vinyl are an excellent example of this type of concern. Let's look at the facts regarding leather and it's physical properties first!

LEATHER SEATS

It would seem that there are a few people in the industry who have taken the time to analyze what changes have taken place in the manufacturing process of leather automotive seats. Years ago, to have a leather interior you had to move up to a Jaguar or a Lincoln. If you didn't take special care of the leather it cracked and faded. WHY?. The material was simply leather that was dyed. You could not clean it with any type of heavy cleaner or you would remove the dye and the natural oils from the leather. Special products were used to clean and feed the leather.

Today you can see vehicles that are 6 years old and the seats look great. The leather is "clear-coated". "That is correct" just like styled wheels, and paint. Use the wrong product and you can damage and shorten the life of the leather.

Never assume all leather is clear-coated, for example the 1996 Jaguars were not clear-coated. To test the leather:

1. Take some interior cleaner and rub in on an area on the underside of the seat.
2. If you see the color of the leather on your cloth-use a cleaner with "feeding oils".
3. If no color shows, use a waterborne polymer style dressing, let it dry and
then buff with a clean towel.
 
Yet more questions and yet less answers.



I guess, Guess, that since a lether is finished and obviously protects the "real" leather underneath, conditioners may help expose that leather, which would supposedly not good.



Someone needs to run some difinitive tests before we can have some difinitive answers :)
 
I found that information to make perfect sense. If the leather is clear-coated you treat it like paint and use a waterborn polymer-based protectant (like Klassing your seats...)



If you have non-clearcoated leather you use more traditional products that "feed the leather".



Not sure where the confusion lies here. Also, that autoint page I referenced tells you how you can tell which type you have.



Oh, and as far as cleaning the leather goes: make sure you use a water-based cleaner that matches up with the polymer-based leather dressing. The non-clearcoated leather products clean and feed as you rub them in, more or less a one-step process.
 
The problem lies in that if that the PDMS products that people are supposed to use on thier leather aren't good enough of a product, that is the make my black "rough" leather seats look unhealthy.



The other problem is that if everyone believes this, then why does Lexol continue to have a conditioner and why do we believe them and buy them when we feel the need to "feed" the clearcoated leather.



CCB, chances are you leather seats are clearcoated, so you will never use conditioner on them ever? That's the problem.



You want to do the right thing but you're not sure what that is so you compromise and feed your coated leather 1-2 times a year and use PDMS products or just the cleaner the other times.
 
This is really very simple...



There are two basic diferent types of "conditioners." One is polymer-based and is waterborn. The other is oil-based (Lexol, I guess would be like that.)



So, you really don't need to make this any more difficult than that. For instance, I use Zaino leather cleaner and Zaino Leather-in-a-Bottle (the conditioner part for my clear-coated seats, as it meets the poly-based/waterborn requirement.) Then I use 303 in between. Simple.



If I had a '96 Jag I would use a conditioner that was oil-based. I believe there are quite a few of those out there. Just don't use saddlesoap, as it is not neutral in PH (if I remember correctly.)
 
But it's not oil-based. It is water-based and solvent-free (if you don't count water as a solvent.) It is not greasy or sticky. It is purported to feed the leather, but is safe for clearcoated leather. It would probably work just fine on non-clearcoated leather also.



I just brought up that I use Z, but if you were really particular and wanted to avoid any possible damage to the clearcoat on the seats, you could find a waterbased polymer-containing product with no solvents or oils at all.



I don't purport to have all the answers on this. I do think it is important to know that you should never use an oil-based leather conditioner on clearcoated leather. Other than that, relax and enjoy your nice leather seats.
 
So what would be a water-based polymer leather cleaner/conditioner? Besides Z...



You could use that on all your leather seats, clearcoated and Non, so it would seem it (whatever product it is) would be the best buy (if you do both).



Josiah
 
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