*Cheap* replacement for CRSpotless

[Kean]

I agree with Supe. Even with a TDS meter (and assuming you softener cartridge would even work) I doubt you will be able to flow enough water through the filter to be useful for rinsing while still having it effectively produce spot-free water. Personally, I think a unit like the CRSpotless DIC-20 is worth it (especially with the cart and built-in meter) but you may be able to piece together a working rig yourself for less.



Places like Windows101 (where I happen to buy my resin) have some of the components to build your own but IMO, it's not worth the hassle. ....you may feel different though.



btw, Windows 101 has the cheapest price for resin I have been able to find anywhere if you decide to buy or put together your own DI system (Windows101).

 

[Nopstnz8]

Yes, but it comes with a big "but(t)"... That being the amount of de-ionizing capacity will be greatly reduced in two ways: 1. The amount of water you can flow through the hose (gallons per minute) and still get 0 TDS (Total Desolved Solids) will be greatly reduced. Without a TDS meter, it'll be impossible to know for sure if, at whatever flow rate you have, you are getting 0 TDS. 2. The total amount of water you can flow through the resin before the resin is depleted will also be greatly reduced. Once again, without a TDS meter, it'll be impossible to know when your resin is shot.



It's a big initial investment (with the continuing expense of resin) to do DI water right, but, IMO, it's worth it.



Edit: Just re-read your post. Didn't realize you bought the water softening cartridge and not the DI cartridge. I've used the water softening cartridge before. In fact, that's what I started with. Do yourself a favor, and get a true DI cartridge. You'll end up getting white sodium spots all over the place if the water you're running through the water softening cartridge is really hard.



In an attempt to save money, I went the water softener cartridge route first, and ended up spending more than if I had gotten a true DI solution to begin with.

Thanks. Yeah I noticed the same thing with spotting of the softener cartridge, which is why I wanna do it right this time. Ha. Ha.



So wait should I be ordering a total of two filters with the DI Water cartridges for each?

 

[Eliot Ness]

...... if I had it to do all over again I would just buy a CRS and be done with it. Larger canisters= more gpm and less messing around with resin changes.

Ditto what the others have said. I'd be ahead if I had spent the extra $$$$ for a CRS to begin with. This thread was a great idea, but I think most of us have come to that same conclusion.



Thanks to Supe we've all learned a lot about how to do DI the right way in this thread.

 

[Accumulator]

OMG look who's posting!



Hi there, Eliot Ness! :wavey

 

[SuperBee364]

Eliot, great to see ya!



Hope all is well, and that you're still keeping Eisenhulk under control....

 

[Dan]

Ditto what the others have said. I'd be ahead if I had spent the extra $$$$ for a CRS to begin with. This thread was a great idea, but I think most of us have come to that same conclusion.



Thanks to Supe we've all learned a lot about how to do DI the right way in this thread.

After reading here and a few other places, that's what I'm starting to gather, just suck it up and buy the CRS.

 

[SuperBee364]

It is possible to put together a home built de-ionizing setup for about 100 bucks less than a CRS, but tracking down the various parts is a huge PITA. I used to have a collection of links to all the different parts needed to build an exact replica of a CRS (same capacity and flow rates, but without the stand), but most of the links no longer work. If you don't mind putting in the hours of researching the parts and then assembling them, yeah, you can save about 100 bucks.



Me? I broke down and bought a CRS from costco.com. At the time (and it still might be), it was the cheapest place to buy the full size portable CRS. Glad I did, too.

 

[kathakoli]

I agree with your opinion

 

[Kean]

Me? I broke down and bought a CRS from costco.com. At the time (and it still might be), it was the cheapest place to buy the full size portable CRS. Glad I did, too.

....that's where I bought mine as well. If I remember correctly, mine also came with a hose (cheap), extra resin and a nozzle. I'm not sure if some or all of those items are supposed to be bundled with the DIC-20.

 

[Nopstnz8]

Ok guys so I'm having a slight problem with my "deionizing" filter... I only have one in line, but I keep the water pressure pretty low, but I'm still getting spotting to the point I have to glaze the car to remove the spotting, then polish the windows. I noticed yesterday, and I washed my car in the shade and it wasn't hot at all, but I noticed what I thought appeared to be the resin from the filter, sitting on the paint. I leaf blow dry my car, so I'm hoping to figure out a remedy for this so I can continue drying that way.



On wheels I have no problems, same with when I no rinse the car (if it's not too dirty), but paint is where my problems have lied. Could the soap drying on the car, even in shade, be the source of my problem? I use Meguiars gold class, and make sure there's A LOT of soap in the bucket so I have extra lubricity, but still enough water. Should I be rinsing panels as I go, then do a final rinse over the whole car before leaf blow drying?



I'll probably get another filter and resin, but if the same problems will still result, I'd rather not waste the money.

 

[Greg Nichols]

Ok guys so I'm having a slight problem with my "deionizing" filter... I only have one in line, but I keep the water pressure pretty low, but I'm still getting spotting to the point I have to glaze the car to remove the spotting, then polish the windows. I noticed yesterday, and I washed my car in the shade and it wasn't hot at all, but I noticed what I thought appeared to be the resin from the filter, sitting on the paint. I leaf blow dry my car, so I'm hoping to figure out a remedy for this so I can continue drying that way.



On wheels I have no problems, same with when I no rinse the car (if it's not too dirty), but paint is where my problems have lied. Could the soap drying on the car, even in shade, be the source of my problem? I use Meguiars gold class, and make sure there's A LOT of soap in the bucket so I have extra lubricity, but still enough water. Should I be rinsing panels as I go, then do a final rinse over the whole car before leaf blow drying?



I'll probably get another filter and resin, but if the same problems will still result, I'd rather not waste the money.

What is your hardness meter reading?



Is your cartrage is correctly, easy to put in upside down.



What is your flow rate coming out of the other end.



How are you spraying the rinse onto the car.



What if you don't use soap what happens.





Cheers,

GREG

 

[Nopstnz8]

What is your hardness meter reading?



Is your cartrage is correctly, easy to put in upside down.



What is your flow rate coming out of the other end.



How are you spraying the rinse onto the car.



What if you don't use soap what happens.





Cheers,

GREG

So I talked to my friend today and asked if my issues might be caused by me letting the soap dry on the surface before rinsing, and I asked him if I should then just make sure I rinse the soap off the panels as I go, and in the end do a final rinse, then dry and see what happens...



I'll check the filter and see if it is installed upside down though.



I don't have a TDS meter or a flowrate meter to see how fast it's coming out, but (and I know this might not really help), I only turn the nozzle from the off position about a turn and a half or two max, so water is flowing at maximum of half the rate it can, but possibly less using one filter inline with the hose.



Funny thing is when I go wash my friend's BMW at his place down the street, and his apartment complex is much nicer (and I think they have flow rate meters!), I actually wash the car with the exact same procedure as mine, but I'm doing it in the garage at night when it's 40-50 degrees, compared to 60-70 in shade at my place mid to later in the day before sundown.



I always tape my mirrors with frog tape before I do long commutes, and clean the mirrors only with ONR using the same water, but leaf blow dry the mirrors and whatever else of the car that the water drips on, and this leaves no spotting whatsoever, so I usually try and stick with ONR if I can as it poses the least issues since water isn't sitting there constantly, and when I do the presoak, it's only with store bought DI water in a sprayer.



That said though, I would still like to get this puzzling issue solved because sometimes my car gets too dirty for what I feel ONR is safe to use on, and want to do a conventional wash.



Back to the soap concern though... When I conventional wash, I use A LOT of Gold Class soap in the bucket as it'll increase lubricity a good amount, but I'm wondering it this is causing the spotting once dried? In addition to that, when I conventional wash, I do the initial spray down of the entire car, then as I go to each panel, I rerinse, TBM the panel, then move to the next panel and repeat until I'm done, then rinse the entire car. As a result, the earlier washed panels will have had enough time for the highly concentrated soap to dry, which is something I'm thinking could be my issue, or at least part of it?

 

[Accumulator]

Nopstnz8- A few sorta-random thoughts follow:



-If you're getting such severe spotting, your DI system must not be doing much of *anything*; I bet a TDS reading would give a pretty high number as I don't get that even without my DI system



-Turning down the water at the tap might not give the proper *pressure* for your DI system (volume and pressure are different and things can act weird). I use a pressure-limiter from the RV store (cheap enough, maybe $15 or so) to make sure the pressure stays nice and low (i.e., 40psi). Turning the water down at the tap doesn't work the same for me



-I'd much rather use a better shampoo than an especially strong mix of Gold Class (which I consider mediocre at best). Griot's, Optimum (their conventional shampoo), or Duragloss



-Yeah, rinse every panel as you do it and rerinse frequently (to keep it wet), and then rerinse the whole car again at the end



-If you rinse thoroughly enough, the previously-washed panels won't have any more shampoo on them after they've been rinsed. This gets back to using the right concentration of (the proper) shampoo instead of a strong mix of so-so shampoo

 

[Nopstnz8]

Nopstnz8- A few sorta-random thoughts follow:



-If you're getting such severe spotting, your DI system must not be doing much of *anything*; I bet a TDS reading would give a pretty high number as I don't get that even without my DI system



-Turning down the water at the tap might not give the proper *pressure* for your DI system (volume and pressure are different and things can act weird). I use a pressure-limiter from the RV store (cheap enough, maybe $15 or so) to make sure the pressure stays nice and low (i.e., 40psi). Turning the water down at the tap doesn't work the same for me



-I'd much rather use a better shampoo than an especially strong mix of Gold Class (which I consider mediocre at best). Griot's, Optimum (their conventional shampoo), or Duragloss



-Yeah, rinse every panel as you do it and rerinse frequently (to keep it wet), and then rerinse the whole car again at the end



-If you rinse thoroughly enough, the previously-washed panels won't have any more shampoo on them after they've been rinsed. This gets back to using the right concentration of (the proper) shampoo instead of a strong mix of so-so shampoo

Ok great! Thanks for the input! I guess my friend really was right that Gold Class really is "mediocre." I used it last year weekly on our Honda with that soft paint, and was able to keep it swirl free, even under pretty unideal conditions, but granted I wasn't using it in anyway how it was intended... I'd rinse the car at the coin op with DI water only, then per panel, I'd be spraying liberal amounts of ONR at QD strength to up the lubricity since I didn't have a constant running hose and also wanted to keep it safe. So I guess my method made gold class "livable," but outside of it, I don't really care for Meguair's products anymore because they are no longer up to the "Autopian Standard." I just used it because it got the job done, and was cheap on my wallet. I'll now be switching to either Griots or Optimum Car Wash though.



Regarding the filter, do you think my problem is most likely related to the flow rates and the "junk" in the water at my place? At my friend's down the street (not that close to me, so his water would essentially be different), under the same conditions, I don't recall of any spotting other than maybe somewhat minor on the windows if that, with leafblow drying.



So I guess I have a couple options:



1) Fix the flow rates of water into the current filter

2) Buy another filter to have dual inline

3) Maybe a CR Spotless unit (But IDK if that will make a difference if options 1 and 2 together don't even work?)

 

[Accumulator]

Regarding the filter, do you think my problem is most likely related to the flow rates and the "junk" in the water at my place? At my friend's down the street (not that close to me, so his water would essentially be different), under the same conditions, I don't recall of any spotting other than maybe somewhat minor on the windows if that, with leafblow drying...

Location on the waterline can make a huge diff; I'm at the end of the line and you wouldn't *believe* the stuff my primary/"big stuff" filter catches!

So I guess I have a couple options:



1) Fix the flow rates of water into the current filter

2) Buy another filter to have dual inline

3) Maybe a CR Spotless unit (But IDK if that will make a difference if options 1 and 2 together don't even work?)

I'm not sure what to recommend as a) I'm no expert on this stuff, and b) every situation seems to be different.



But yeah- filtering out the big stuff would be a good idea (I run two filters before each of my softeners and have my CRS unit after the softener for the garage water).



EDIT: almost forgot- between my two regular "whole house sediment filters" and the softeners, I also have "berm filters" which remove the excess manganese that's in my water. The berm filters alone change my icecubes from cloudy to crystal-clear, so I bet they also benefit my car washes and other stuff.



Limiting the input pressure is almost certainly a good idea. The RV stores sell the little gizmo for it as RVs have an input limit that just happens to be the same 40psi.



I do think the CRS unit is good, almost certainly better than the single-tank ones, but it's easy for me to spend your money

 

[Nopstnz8]

Can you post a pic of that "gizmo" from RV stores that you're talking about? Thanks

 

[Accumulator]

Can you post a pic of that "gizmo" from RV stores that you're talking about? Thanks

No, sorry, I haven't gotten into the whole digital-imaging thing...(yeah, I know ).



It just looks like a a brass quick-disconnect fitting- cylindrical piece with female hose-end threads on each end. Srews onto the supply hose where it goes into the DI unit. The guys at the RV store will know exactly what it is, or I bet you can figure it out with a quick google. "Water pressure regulator, 40 psi" pulled up this- David's RV Tips: Water Pressure Regulators . I have the cheapie one that he says is available at Walmart; it's held up fine for me.

 

[Kean]

Can you post a pic of that "gizmo" from RV stores that you're talking about? Thanks

I think Accumulator made an important point a few posts back about pressure and your scenario.



You really need to figure out specifically what your application requires. I don't see where you stated exactly what you have but a smaller inline cartridge is not going to effectively filter at similar flow rates that a larger system like Accumulator and I have (I believe we both have the same CRS DIC-20 model). CRSpotless provides specific rates and guidelines for regulating flow through their systems. IIRC, the DIC-20 is not to exceed 4 GPM and their smaller DIC-10 is supposed to remain below ~2 GPM. After all of this time I'm still operating without a regulator so I'm stuck with using the fan setting on my nozzles which is what CRS recommends if you're not using some sort of flow restriction or device that allows control of this (like a pressure washer).



I would also wonder that with a small cartridge of that type (and depending on the quality of your tap water) if you are ever really achieving “spot free” filtration. ….maybe just reduced TDS levels instead. The last time I measured my tap water I was showing upwards of 500 on my TDS meter with a reduction of ~ 100 ppm with my inline sediment and soft water filter. …..and zero with my CRS system hooked up. Personally, I usually begin to notice some level of spotting as soon as my meter shows ~ 10+. At that point the level seems to bounce around which is when I know it’s time to replace the resin. On a side note, I have thought about storing some of the water from my system when it gets to this point so I can use it during my wash (I sometimes fill up my (2) 5 gallon wash buckets). ….just seems like a waste to throw out the resin when it’s still producing mineral-reduced water.

 

[Accumulator]

Kean- Yeah, I too have the CRS DIC-20.



You brought up a good point about the output volume. I'm just using the cheapie/small-diameter hose that came with mine, and I usually use the "shower" setting on its nozzle, though I too use the "fan" setting without causing problems.



So it's a matter of both limiting the pressure going it, and the volume going out.



And yeah...I always wonder about the effectiveness of those single-cannister DI systems :think:

 

[Kean]

Kean- Yeah, I too have the CRS _DIC-20.



You brought up a good point about the output volume. I'm just using the cheapie/small-diameter hose that came with mine, and I usually use the "shower" setting on its nozzle, though I too use the "fan" setting without causing problems.



So it's a matter of both limiting the pressure going it, and the volume going out.



And yeah...I always wonder about the effectiveness of those single-cannister DI systems :think:

I really hate being limited to the fan setting and really prefer the shower for most of my process but Im unsure if maybe Im pushing too much water through my filters. Although I will still use the shower setting turned down for flushing/rinsing wheels (I have quick connect valves where I plug in my nozzles).



IIRC, CRS recommends a 1- 2 gpm restrictor at the nozzle as an option. I may go that route.