Buffpro "drum-style" polishing tool

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JetDet said:
Hey guys. I've read this entire thread, and before I registered I made sure to read the forum rules and will abide by them to the letter. I hope you'll allow me to weigh in on the subject at hand.

First, an introduction. My name is Brian, and I am the Operations Supervisor for the company who manufactures the BuffPro. Obviously, I have the financial (and maybe somewhat "biased") interest in these products, and I am stating that up front as per the forum rules. Personally, I feel that honesty is the very best policy in any forum, especially one with "Truth" in the forum name. And to tell you the truth, had I come by this site earlier, I would have presented myself in this manner without even having read the rules.

I'm not here to defend Bud, or even defend the product, in a manner of speaking. I would just like to share my personal experience with the BuffPro, and how I came to work for the company.

As an aviation detailer at Spirit Airport in Chesterfield, MO, for years a large part of my job was polishing aluminum leading edges of wings and engine inlets, TR cones, APU exhaust panels, prop spinners, and aircraft body paint. The last company I worked for, American Air Charter, hired me as their first staff detailer, and I worked alone on ten small to midsize business aircraft.

My general process for polishing leading edges involved three steps. I exclusively used Nuvite Metal Polish. I would begin with the G6 grade, a very aggressive cutter. This would remove the heavy oxidation and scratches, but would leave a hazy look and a lot of circular micro-marring. Next I would use Nuvite's grade C, a medium cutter, which would remove the haze and smooth everything out, though in the sun swirl marks would be left everywhere. Finally I would apply Nuvite S, a finisher, and polish with a lateral motion by hand. This would result in a perfect, mirror finish under any lighting condition. However, as you guys probably know, the process with a rotary buffer took forever and left a huge mess. I had to mask large portions of the aircraft wings and fuselage before I started, and at job's end the floor would require a good zamboni clean. Depending on the size of the aircraft, this process would normally take no less than 15 hours, and on larger aircraft up to 25 hours if I was doing the job alone.

One day last summer, the BuffPro guys came into my hangar and asked if I would like to try this product out. I borrowed one, with a wool pad. The next day I worked on a Sabreliner that had heavily oxidized leading edges. All of the exposed metal surfaces were a dull gray and were filled with pits and scratches. Also, the white paint aft of the APU exhaust was heavily stained, as were the engine bottoms.

I completed the brightwork, with almost no mess from splatter, in nine hours. Instead of the three step process, I used exclusively Nuvite C grade. I did every metal surface except for the inside of the engine inlets, which because of the size of the BuffPro and the smaller Sabreliner engine size, had to be done with a small rotary. Then I used Flitz paint polish to buff out the exhaust stains, and that process literally took about 10 minutes. I completed a fast wax and had the entire aircraft exterior done in less than two 8-hour shifts.

I made my boss buy me a BuffPro, and quickly began saving more and more time per detailing job as I got used to a good technique. After about a month with the thing in hand, I starting hounding this company, who is based in St. Louis, for a job. I called and emailed and left messages for months until they finally hired me. That is how thrilled I was with the product - I knew first-hand through experience that there was something special about it.

Some of the concerns here are based on videos and pictures, not hands-on experience. I would like to address just a few of those. First, the weight of the machine is comparable to an electric Dewalt I used while working for Emerson Electric Aviation. BuffPro is possibly 1 to 1.5 lbs heavier at most. However, because of the way the drum spins, the machine will "climb" side panels (in my case, vertical tail sections, fuselage and engine sides) - all you need to do is guide it. The only part that was difficult for me was the bottom of wing leading edges or bellies - but how many of you auto detailers will be doing the bottoms of cars? Luckily, the process went so quickly for me I didn't have to hold the buffer that way for long.

Second, the price. Our machine and pads are priced very reasonably when you consider that the pads greatly outlast those of rotary or orbital buffers. I have had customers tell me our foam pads last them upwards of 20 vehicles. The machine itself, because of the way it spins, requires less product, fewer steps, and it saves time during the job and for cleanup. That said, it is more than worth the cost.

Lastly, the size. The foam pads easily contour to body panels as you buff, making it easy to orient the buffer in a manner which can get it just about anywhere. I would wager 80% of your auto jobs can be completed without having to use another buffer, and in those cases where it's necessary, you would only have to do around a door handle or a sideview.

I've seen with my own eyes, this buffer completely restore a heavily oxidized headlight lens in less than 60 seconds - a service many detailers offer for $50 or more.

I want to say that I am not here to sell the BuffPro to you. We have distributors nationwide and are now expanding internationally as detailers discover its benefits. A couple of sales from this website wouldn't make a difference in our fiscal year. The idea is to try to get a handle on misinformation and clear up concerns. As for Bud, the way he sells his products are up to him - though I would say that he has been around detailing a long, long time, and he is one of the most knowledgeable guys in the industry you will find.If you guys have any question, I'll be glad to answer. I hope you all don't mind my lengthy weigh-in. If so, I graciously apologize.

Whatever methods and tools you use to get the results you're looking for, I wish you all the best in your business.

(Thanks btw to JO for the link to the site and for posting his positive BuffPro experiences)
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By your own criteria I will test you........ you know this because you have seen the work he has put out or from guys he has trained?, you said guys are only making assumptions because of videos.......well how do you know "Bud" knows what he is doing because of time in grade or did you see a video?.

Send me a machine and I will do a honest evaluation on it, and if I think it is "The poo" I will recind any negative remarks I have made so far as everyone on the boards knows this "I tell it straight....always".
 
What I said was that Bud is extremely knowledgeable. His track record should speak for itself - plus I have talked to him on the phone multiple times and had great conversations with him about detailing. He has taught me plenty just by my listening to him. My post is about the product, and my personal experience with it - not about Bud.
 
JetDet said:
As I said, I am not here to defend Bud. He is not a direct employee of our company. But you can look here to see what he has done in his 40 years of experience:

http://talkcarwash.com/profiles/17-rl-bud-abraham
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I have never seen a "Carwash" that could detail a car even to a 85% correction level, it is like anything "Garbage in , garbage out".

You have a guy who jousted with Kevin Brown and myself on another forum, due to spam and just plain "Hackness" statements about the craft. I am so tired of "Whizbang" detailing systems, be a affiliate and make your financial dreams come true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, this "Truth in detailing" a site with accomplished pro's who do this for thier sole living(Myself included) who do not fall for the "Okie doke".

I cannot tell you how many times I have recieved PM"s from guys who sign up with companies with "A system" only to get out in the real world and find the results are not there from what they learned and use,and see one of my write ups and KNOW they do not get those results...........

It is simple, experience is the teacher along with the right products used in the proper order will net the results everyone is striving for. The Buffpro is not being panned for the idea but the execution of said idea, I watched every video today I could find and I did not see 90% or above correction, also this machine is ungainly on hoods and roofs especially suv roofs, also how cleaning the pad is more involved as in every video the machine is polishing at a slow speed not correcting and not once did I see the pad cleaned?.

A new idea is always welcomed, believe me when I see something new that works it is in my arsenal "With the quickness", the guy in Washington did not do you any favors either with his pic of the SL, as even though he crosshatched there were high spots and the correction was not crisp.....also wool pad to LSP........."SNP" or "Come on now....." half the time in a detail without real correction is just production 50% er stuff, remember a certain guy also told Richie and me that a "Cyclo" can correct as well and that machine has it's place........just not in my shop.
 
Again, you are going by what you have seen in videos and pictures. I have had hands-on experience with the machine, which is why I posted in the thread. In my personal experience, I was so thrilled with the time saved and the results (not to mention the reactions of a couple of literal millionares who told me their airplanes had never looked as good as it did after my detailing jobs) that I knew I wanted to come work for this company.

The first time I used it, I got a perfect, mirror finish on brightwork in about six hours less time than it would have taken with a rotary - and the results were actually better. On the paint, I achieved a perfect finish in minutes, not hours. I have watched our Sales Manager work near-miracles with this machine. The guy who invented it has a solid business in Naples, Florida detailing everything from cars and RVs to yachts. As Operations Supervisor, I talk to customers every day who are absolutely thrilled with the machine - guys who have been using rotaries and orbitals for decades who gave the BuffPro an honest try and now use it almost exclusively.

I'm not really sure how you can see whether a finish is 90% corrected or 85% corrected, or even 50% corrected in an online video. I have seen it in person, under halogen lights, and in the sun, and have used the machine plenty myself.

I have a customer in CA who almost exclusively does high end vehicles, many of which are black, with our machine and he absolutely loves it. He wouldn't be putting his name on a full detailing job on a Lamborghini, with the BuffPro in hand, if there wasn't something to it.

If you don't want to make a change from the way you've been doing things for years, that's certainly understandable and respectable. I'm not trying to push anything on you; I just don't think you should post all kinds of negative feedback based on pictures and videos. This machine saved me hours and saved my boss money and got me terrific results, simply because I was willing to put down the way I had been doing things and give it a chance.

Nobody's telling you to stop doing things your way. But when you don't have hands-on experience with something, it's kind of unbecoming to go around bashing it online. It's not a "whizbang" product - it's a ligitimate detailing tool that I fell in love with so much I wanted to come work for the company that makes it. I had almost 10 years in the aircraft detailing business, and I learned the ropes working for one of the largest business aviation corporate divisions in the world, whose aircraft are worth upwards of $40 million. I believe that qualifies me as a "pro."

Anway, that's my two cents. I am sorry for the way that Bud came off on your forum, although as I said, we really don't have control over all our resellers/distributors - of which there are many.

I wish you the very best of luck in your detail business.
 
drumbo said:
So why you gotta be hating here? I have been doing this kind of work for 30 years. I have actually used the machine. You? I try to save money on materials, time etc. it all adds up. I am paid by the piece not hourly. It produces a great finish faster than I had been getting with rotaries, D.A. style buffers etc. Obviously this machine won't fit everywhere, every job. I do use several machines on a job always have. I will put it up against any job by any guy. OK?
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No one here hates you. Its just odd that you didn't find clay untill 3 years ago? Who is your supplier, TG&Y? Someone should've brought this to your attention 20 years ago :-B
 
JetDet said:
The first time I used it, I got a perfect, mirror finish on brightwork in about six hours less time than it would have taken with a rotary - and the results were actually better. On the paint, I achieved a perfect finish in minutes, not hours.
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Well JetDet, I guess your perception of a perfect finish is different than most people.

In reality a perfect finish is not just a smooth glossy finish ( I can train a chimp to do that) but one free of defects such as swirl marks, holograms, random scratches...etc;

The only practical use I can see for this machine would be as an electric toilet paper dispenser.

The reason you and your cronies are being treated this way is due to the spamming that has been perpetrated by them and yourself.

Come on, single digit post counts and "Oh BTW has anyone tried this latest Trick Titanium Turd? I have and it is the best thing since the wheel" type posts.

You would probably have a better shot selling these at your local flea market.
 
JetDet said:
Again, you are going by what you have seen in videos and pictures. I have had hands-on experience with the machine, which is why I posted in the thread. In my personal experience, I was so thrilled with the time saved and the results (not to mention the reactions of a couple of literal millionares who told me their airplanes had never looked as good as it did after my detailing jobs) that I knew I wanted to come work for this company.

The first time I used it, I got a perfect, mirror finish on brightwork in about six hours less time than it would have taken with a rotary - and the results were actually better. On the paint, I achieved a perfect finish in minutes, not hours. I have watched our Sales Manager work near-miracles with this machine. The guy who invented it has a solid business in Naples, Florida detailing everything from cars and RVs to yachts. As Operations Supervisor, I talk to customers every day who are absolutely thrilled with the machine - guys who have been using rotaries and orbitals for decades who gave the BuffPro an honest try and now use it almost exclusively.

I'm not really sure how you can see whether a finish is 90% corrected or 85% corrected, or even 50% corrected in an online video. I have seen it in person, under halogen lights, and in the sun, and have used the machine plenty myself.

I have a customer in CA who almost exclusively does high end vehicles, many of which are black, with our machine and he absolutely loves it. He wouldn't be putting his name on a full detailing job on a Lamborghini, with the BuffPro in hand, if there wasn't something to it.

If you don't want to make a change from the way you've been doing things for years, that's certainly understandable and respectable. I'm not trying to push anything on you; I just don't think you should post all kinds of negative feedback based on pictures and videos. This machine saved me hours and saved my boss money and got me terrific results, simply because I was willing to put down the way I had been doing things and give it a chance.

Nobody's telling you to stop doing things your way. But when you don't have hands-on experience with something, it's kind of unbecoming to go around bashing it online. It's not a "whizbang" product - it's a ligitimate detailing tool that I fell in love with so much I wanted to come work for the company that makes it. I had almost 10 years in the aircraft detailing business, and I learned the ropes working for one of the largest business aviation corporate divisions in the world, whose aircraft are worth upwards of $40 million. I believe that qualifies me as a "pro."

Anway, that's my two cents. I am sorry for the way that Bud came off on your forum, although as I said, we really don't have control over all our resellers/distributors - of which there are many.

I wish you the very best of luck in your detail business.
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Well I am in California........and do high end work.............on Lamborghini's and you are not getting a perfect finish on ceramic paint in minutes and a black finish to boot.

Maybe the "Guy" in California should put up some of is work for us to see and you might turn us around and convince us(All of us who think the world is flat btw) also videos cannot be Pshopped at least HD so yes I can see if the finish is up to snuff like this pic below.....

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Another thought is if you believe in the machine so much why be a salaried employee??, as a Master distributor with 30 to 50 points you would have done much better finacially imo.
 
what the legal profession calls contempt prior to investigation and speculation and conjecture. I am/was guilty of exactly that.
actually the suppliers brought clay bars around. we couldn't use it in the body shop because we had to do things without wax or silicone...you know body shop safe...so stove oil & Pre Kleano or lacquer reducer dupont 3812 etc. So i never even gave a clay bar a chance until i saw a lot boy using it....My exposure to detailing was in a body shop & making the rest of the car look like the spot or blended job. when the fumes got to be too much I did a lot more dealer work, new car get ready, details etc. Also worked at an RV shop & did motorhomes & trailer detail & hung out at a truck stop & polished wheels tanks semi's etc. Thing is, we can find work in any town doing this!
Anyhow... the forum should be for sharing what works. Things we find with hands on or in. I am old in my ways but at least willing to learn still because if we become un-teachable then we die!
 
Sure thing Richie. I would be glad to. Yeah my website is lame as it is what I could afford. So yeah I dabble in repairs, always have/had to owning old stuff HD's boats etc. Sure I replace parts and living next to salt water I do boat work too. Ever drop a Dewalt or Milwaukee buffer in salt water? while leaning off the bow of your boat to reach the nose of a boat you are polishing? Then blow it out & hose it down w WD40 & hope to hell it works so you can finish before it gets dark? Maybe i'll test the BuffPro that way next time I do a big boat and if it don't work... well it kinda looks like an anchor now doesn't it? Actually I threatened to do that with it to the BuffPro guys.....they sent me different pads and I said i'd keep trying it....
We do the same thing and should try to help out one another and not discourage people from trying new things. I don't know it all and never claimed to. I just posted some honest experience and I won't refrain from having a little success and sharing. Give me a call sometime if ya have the stones. 360.271.5542 OK? I do enjoy this!
 
drumbo said:
what the legal profession calls contempt prior to investigation and speculation and conjecture. I am/was guilty of exactly that.
actually the suppliers brought clay bars around. we couldn't use it in the body shop because we had to do things without wax or silicone...you know body shop safe...so stove oil & Pre Kleano or lacquer reducer dupont 3812 etc. So i never even gave a clay bar a chance until i saw a lot boy using it....My exposure to detailing was in a body shop & making the rest of the car look like the spot or blended job. when the fumes got to be too much I did a lot more dealer work, new car get ready, details etc. Also worked at an RV shop & did motorhomes & trailer detail & hung out at a truck stop & polished wheels tanks semi's etc. Thing is, we can find work in any town doing this!
Anyhow...the forum should be for sharing what works. Things we find with hands on or in. I am old in my ways but at least willing to learn still because if we become un-teachable then we die!
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You sound like a decent enough guy to me. I too, have been around this business practically all my life. Alot of things have changed over the years with technology. When you and I entered this field, there were no internet forums, or how to guides. It was pretty much just a trial and error approach to find what works


Please except my apology if I came accross to you harshly. I really don't care to be "That Guy"


Peace,

Trouble :-B

PS...Why don't request admin to change your user name. Drumbo is very unbecoming IMO
 
Trouble said:
You sound like a decent enough guy to me. I too, have been around this business practically all my life. Alot of things have changed over the years with technology. When you and I entered this field, there were no internet forums, or how to guides. It was pretty much just a trial and error approach to find what works


Please except my apology if I came accross to you harshly. I really don't care to be "That Guy"

Peace,

Trouble :-B

PS...Why don't request admin to change your user name. Drumbo is very unbecoming IMO
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Too late...........you are "That guy" before Bing and I were "Those guys" on this thread.....lol.
 
drumbo said:
Sure thing Richie. I would be glad to. Yeah my website is lame as it is what I could afford. So yeah I dabble in repairs, always have/had to owning old stuff HD's boats etc. Sure I replace parts and living next to salt water I do boat work too. Ever drop a Dewalt or Milwaukee buffer in salt water? while leaning off the bow of your boat to reach the nose of a boat you are polishing? Then blow it out & hose it down w WD40 & hope to hell it works so you can finish before it gets dark? Maybe i'll test the BuffPro that way next time I do a big boat and if it don't work... well it kinda looks like an anchor now doesn't it? Actually I threatened to do that with it to the BuffPro guys.....they sent me different pads and I said i'd keep trying it....
We do the same thing and should try to help out one another and not discourage people from trying new things. I don't know it all and never claimed to. I just posted some honest experience and I won't refrain from having a little success and sharing. Give me a call sometime if ya have the stones. 360.271.5542 OK? I do enjoy this!
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Drumbo,

Anybody here accepts and welcomes tips or products that help make a sometimes tough task easier, but when it is packaged as spam initially with just a few posts the reaction is quite predictable.

Most of the frequent posters here are in the classifacation of "This is not our first rodeo" and I or most everyone here cannot know everything about all products coming down the pike and if this product works for you that is great and utilize in your service.

Remember if you see a car on the road with signs on it with the caption "Ask me how to lose weight" and the driver is shall we say "Ample in the hips" or sign that says "Make millions at home" and the car is worth $3,500.00 bucks it goes to credibility, I honestly have not seen any established paint correction guys using the machine(Earlier post I ask for a machine to eval) and no reaction to this and if videos are not a criteria to be interested in trying the machine why use them?.

As for your website, mine is not award winning either but the "Butterfly" as cool as may be for a ten year old girl maybe might not be a good look for a detailing services website(fyi).
 
Auto Concierge said:
Drumbo,

Anybody here accepts and welcomes tips or products that help make a sometimes tough task easier, but when it is packaged as spam initially with just a few posts the reaction is quite predictable.

Most of the frequent posters here are in the classifacation of "This is not our first rodeo" and I or most everyone here cannot know everything about all products coming down the pike and if this product works for you that is great and utilize in your service.

Remember if you see a car on the road with signs on it with the caption "Ask me how to lose weight" and the driver is shall we say "Ample in the hips" or sign that says "Make millions at home" and the car is worth $3,500.00 bucks it goes to credibility, I honestly have not seen any established paint correction guys using the machine(Earlier post I ask for a machine to eval) and no reaction to this and if videos are not a criteria to be interested in trying the machine why use them?.

As for your website, mine is not award winning either but the "Butterfly" as cool as may be for a ten year old girl maybe might not be a good look for a detailing services website(fyi).
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Yeah spam packaging sucks. Too bad it was presented as such. These machines are popping up a bit around here and if people are gonna use 'em they should be honest about it. Like i said I hated it & thought I wasted a buncha money. Their pads are delicate. Perhaps expensive and I have been on the phone quite a bit with them. It does do a nice job & I am doing more production work. I haven't used it on any boats yet. It's has rained quite a bit so taking a job indoors at a dealership and doing piece work is what I needed to do last winter.
And yeah I haven't gotten any calls off the website. Craigslist seems to bring me more work! I need to redo it!
 
First of all, I never spammed. I have been respectful and complied with the forum rules to the letter. I posted truthful, personal, professional experiences with a product that excited me so much I made a career change after nearly a decade's worth of working on aircraft ranging in value up to $55 million. Do you think owners of such aircaft would allow a, what did you say, "chimp" to work on them?

As for the perfect mirror finish, the airplane was pulled onto the ramp that afternoon under sunny skies. The owner stated to me that he had never seen the plane look that good in all the years he owned it (about 20). I know what a perfect finish is and how to achieve it.

As for our customer in CA with the high end cars, just yesterday he and I discussed his becoming a spokesman for the products. Once the details are worked out (I want to make sure the deal benefits him as much as it does us), if you're still interested in seeing pics I'll post them - not only of the finishes, but of the crew actually using the tool. Until I work everything out with him, though, I can't really post anything without his permission and he is not a member here. But I can say that once we get it worked out, he has agreed to make himself available via email or phone to talk about his experience with the products as well.

Remember, Bud is a reseller and therefore every sale has a direct financial impact for him. He is not a direct employee of our company and we don't really have control over the way that all of our resellers do their business. Quite honestly, I was pretty perturbed when I saw the way he presented the products. I was directed here by another member, or I may have never even known about this thread. I can't speak for him. I can only speak for myself and my personal experiences with him, with the products, and my company.

As for me, I have not spammed, or tried to push this stuff on anyone here. I have been honest, upfront, and respectful of you all and the forum rules. Like I said, we sell primarily to distributors and individual sales don't have much impact in our fiscal reports. And yeah, I'm on salary, so I have no real reason to sit here and spam a forum and try to generate sales that way. I only wanted to set a record straight by posting personal experience in a professional setting.

No one is asking you to buy anything or believe anything. But I would appreciate the same respect you would give any skilled professional detailer, as I believe I earned it working in the field in a highly critical atmosphere for a many years. The forum is called "Truth," so I would think that there would be at least some cursory level of respect for someone coming on here and abiding by that general principle.

As for the low post count, I already stated that I was directed here by another member (not Bud, lol). I saw the way things were presented, didn't like it (and was even embarrassed by it) and wanted to set it straight while conforming to the guidelines. So of course, I'm going to have a low post count right now. Didn't all of you have a low post count at one time? If anyone here would like to discuss aviation detailing with me (techniques, products I used BEFORE the BuffPro, etc.) I'd be glad to share and then my post count will rise.

Or if you'd rather I leave, that's fine too. I thought I could have some intelligent discussion here. Was I wrong?
 
Jet Det,

Please quit trying to bait us into more snooze-arama dialogue regarding your machine.

If you really took the time to read even a few posts anywhere on this Forum, you would be able to see much "intelligent discussion" going on all the time, from some of the busiest, best Detailers around.

My posts initially in the first page, way back a few months ago when your dealer first started this up, are still what I feel about it today.

I am also in the Northwest in Bellevue WA. to be exact, and even being that close to your guy, who has one, I really dont have the time or desire to want to see this thing.

Thanks for taking the time to tell us what your role is in the company, wish you and your company well.

Can we move on now? Please ?? Is there an Icon for beating a dead horse? :):):)

Dan F
 
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