Buffpro "drum-style" polishing tool

[Todd@RUPES]

Since the initial post I have had the opportunity to use the BUFFPRO.

At truth in detailing we hold our members to the same standards as we hold ourselves. We ask that everybody (including ourselves) remain open and honest.

Your statement that you have had the opportunity to use this buffer since your original post is misleading, IMO. This is because it strongly insinutates that this is the first time that you have ever used this machine and that your results are those of a person who is giving an unbiased opinion. This is dishonest IMO.

While you have may have had the opportunity to use this buffer since your original post, two days ago, you have in fact used this buffer for at least 5 months, according to this post(buda on 12/16/2010: "Yesterday we used the Buffpro on a Chrysler 300"). Further more you have a finanical interest in this product, and you failed to mention this in your first post (which was stated in a way that makes it seem like you are innocently looking for advice).

You may not have known that posting products, with a dishonest overtone, while failing to mention that you have a finanical interest in the product consititues shilling, but it does....

But before telling you my experiences let me tell you a story about the great Henry Ford, icon of the auto industry and founder of Ford Motor Company.

When Mr Ford has interviewing a candidate for a management position in the company he would take them to dinner and would watch the candidate carefully, if the candidate salted his food before tasting it, he would not hire the person.

Why? His conclusion was the man "reached conclusions without having the facts."

Imagine all of the creative genious that may have slipped through Henry Ford's fingers and could have grown FoMoCo into an even bigger superpower, instead of a company, that in a mere 10 years was a distant second to GM...

It seems to be me that most of you have reached facts and made conclusions without ever having seen the tool in action or using it yourself.

I don't see anybody stating facts, just educated opinions.

Now, let me tell you my experience with the BUFFPRO...

As long as you preclude it with the fact that you are a reseller of the product and that your opinions are going to be naturally biased... It's like going to a Mercedes dealership and listening to why their cars are superior to BMW...

1. It weighs about the same as an electric rotary buffer, 11lbs

Most rotary polishers are between 5 and 7 pounds. So if by "almost the same" you mean up to twice as much, then we are in agreement.

4. It does create lineal marring as point out, but I can tell you this lineal marring is much easier to take out than inconsistent rotary swirls and holograms

The pattern of marring has little to nothing to do with how difficult it is to remove. Removing marring means removing the paint above the marring. The most important factor is the depth of the damage, followed by the shape (U vs. V) of the channels of the marring, followed by the consistency, followed by the frequency. If you truly feel that straight line marring is 'easier' (in your words, much easier) to remove than marring that curves, I would challenge you to describe exactly how and why this is.

7. And, like the rotary buffer the user has to have the ability to diagnose the paint finish problem and after doing that to choose the right pad and the right compound to correct the problem without causing more damage than they are correcting. In fact, that is what I find is the cause of most swirls and holograms is that the detailer chooses to aggressive a pad and/or too aggressive a compound in working on the paint finish.

Buffing induced marring is buffing induced marring, regardless of whether it is in a straight line or curved. It is often a lack of skill that causes buffer marring, whether this is from finishing with too aggressive of a product or simply doesn't understand the proper mechanics of machine polishing.

In summary my experience with the tool is positive. The only thing require is a open mind about things that are new.

As a reseller of the product I am glad that you have had a positive experience with it. It certaintly beats the 'we will sell anything that makes money' mentallity, but we ask that you are open, honest, and have full disclosure. This is what makes Truth in Detailing a unique forum.

Just some well intentioned thoughts

Bud Abraham

This seems to me that it is more like dishonest, misinformed SPAM. Please consider this your only warning on the matter.

Todd

 

[imported_CH.Detailing]

...And the Maestro drops the truth smack-down!

 

[imported_detailchick]

I dont know anything about drum style that machine but I just weighed my rotary and its a solid 10 pounds!

Its really old though , maybe rotarys have gotten lighter over the years?

 

[GoFast908Z]

I had a feeling this was the case. Not written in the kind of tone a real unbiased person would write.

Todd laid the smack down. Awesome.

 

[imported_detailchick]

I always get so dissappointed when I find out someone has financial interests in the products or machines they rave about unless they are upfront about it.
Honesty is always the best policy !! I think the PAC team here is pretty wise to these kinds of posts and members ! Dont try to scam us people unless you want to be exposed !Taking picture

 

[bmw5541]

I am glad you called him to the mat Todd!ancing Dot:

 

[Todd@RUPES]

My intention wasn't to go WWE style and lay the smack down, although after reading the post, I can see how it looks that way.

Running a forum costs money and PAC flips the bill. This is common sense. A detailer wouldn't let a competitor put a logo on their detailing rig.

I am not saying that the Buff-Pro is a bad tool or isn't effective and I agree with Bud that we must keep an open mind. Look at the recent advancements made by Meguiar's in DA technology, in both polishing liquids and pad design...

Bud is an old school detailer who has a successful business and has tons of knowledge/experience that this forum would benefit from. We acknowledge that people use other brands of products (products not sold by PAC) and thats fine. We don't even limit the discussion of these brands. However we do not allow thinly veiled and dishonest posts by those with a financial interest in the product. It's really simple: Unbiased reviews=okay. Biased reviews=not okay. Obviously the internet makes it easier for people to cheat the system, and we give everybody the benefit of the doubt.
​

 

[Junebug]

Well, I think Todd handled it very professionally. Better than I would have. Also, I talked to the detailing store where I handled (not used) just handled the Buffpro and the price is 400 bucks, includes 1 pad, pads are 40 bucks a piece. So - $400 plus 2 pads = $480.00 plus tax.......

Nah, thanks but no thanks. And I stand by my original observations that this tool is not for me. I reckon it would be like trying to wipe your butt while wearing an oven mitt.

 

[imported_Stokdgs]

Ok, I went to Buffprodotcom, looked at a bunch of the videos there, and all I saw was repeats of someone using it on long, flat, straight panels; whether it was a door panel, trunk lid, side of van, back end of a van, the common theme was using it on straight, flat, panels.

The videos didnt explain what you do to get to the little areas between panels, if there is a ridge, edge, i.e., the underside of a rear spoiler, etc.. Looks like a Detailer would still have to get a Random Orbital, Rotary, etc., in those little or not so little areas that this big honking roll cant touch, because it is so big..

Never found a Video using it on rounded, curved, etc., areas, etc., just straight, horizontal or vertical panels..

So now, you invested what was it Junebug? - $500+ and you still have to use your other machine/s with smaller pads and backing plates, to get to the places this big thing cannot get into..

Still dont know how one big expensive pad/roll thing lasts, gets cleaned, how long does it take to dry, what it is made of, what do you clean it with, and of course, the inevitable, what if I need multiple products on different pad/roll things, does this mean I now need a bunch of those big dogs too? Well, I believe I know the answer...

Stilll with an open mind, mind you, but Im not getting that warm and fuzzy feeling about this working for me..

How come there is no video of someone doing a complete Detail using this?

And maybe there are great answers to all my questions out there and if there are, I am certainly open minded enough to see and read them.

Until I see the great people at PAC using and selling them, and a few hundred hours of extended use trials, etc., with all the great pictures and videos they alone provide to help others, well, Im personally still not even hitting a +1 on my Yawn-o-meter...
DanF

 

[imported_CH.Detailing]

Maybe they sell a miniature version.

 

[imported_TLMitchell]

I reckon it would be like trying to wipe your butt while wearing an oven mitt.

Huh? Doesn't everybody? X_X

TL :redface:

 

[drumbo]

Ok. I bought one in february. Used it a few times and hated it. in March or even April if you said you wanted to try one out, I'da mailed you mine!
Now You'll have to get your own. After hours of arguing on the phone, I am a rotary high speed wooly pad guy been doin it that way since 1976 or so....Hey! I just discovered clay bars a year ago...I had been using Pre kleano and solvent for that job...anyhow,
back to the buffpro...here is a MB SL500 black beauty that I wet sanded 1k, 1500 then 2k then buffed with BuffPro. came out perfect. These shots are compund only. No polish or swirl stuff etc.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh67/coalchisel/P1080805.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh67/coalchisel/P1080810.jpg
I finished with the wool pad YES!!!! and well if i told ya I'd have to come shoot ya.
So, don't hate it! The pads to me are and issue, but a 3M superbuff II or III os 30 bucks or so now too.
I also have done several "lot cars" gone straight from heavy compounding to wax. No swirl remover or polish...A cut & a wax. I'll get pic's of this Honda Ridgeline that has been rained on here in Puget Sound that was done with the Buffpro a month a go & has no swirls...ya see all the swirl remover/glaze gets washed off eventually...drive by some car lots at night & have a look at stuff that has been standing for awhile. Then come drive by mine & see what this buffer has done for my game. better yet, do 1/2 a car with what you have been doing, then do 1/2 a car with the BuffPro and wash it 3 or 4 times and then see what you think!!!
feel free to call or email anytime. JO

 

[imported_Auto Concierge]

Since the initial post I have had the opportunity to use the BUFFPRO.

But before telling you my experiences let me tell you a story about the great Henry Ford, icon of the auto industry and founder of Ford Motor Company.

When Mr Ford has interviewing a candidate for a management position in the company he would take them to dinner and would watch the candidate carefully, if the candidate salted his food before tasting it, he would not hire the person.

Why? His conclusion was the man "reached conclusions without having the facts."
It seems to be me that most of you have reached facts and made conclusions without ever having seen the tool in action or using it yourself.

Now, let me tell you my experience with the BUFFPRO...

1. It weighs about the same as an electric rotary buffer, 11lbs
2. It has two handles and is perfectly balanced and very easy to handle
3. The axiel motion of the tool "drives" the tool into the side of the vehicle being worked on so the weight of the tool is minimal.
4. It does create lineal marring as point out, but I can tell you this lineal marring is much easier to take out than inconsistent rotary swirls and holograms
5. While a large looking tool it can be get into as many of the small areas of a vehicle as a rotary buffer. If you saw the video of it being used on a boat you would see it can be used in "small areas" with easy.
6. Like the rotary buffer the user has to have some common sense and skill in using the tool, just like a rotary buffer, but not as much. The tool does the work and does not have to be guided as carefully as a rotary buffer does by the user.
7. And, like the rotary buffer the user has to have the ability to diagnose the paint finish problem and after doing that to choose the right pad and the right compound to correct the problem without causing more damage than they are correcting. In fact, that is what I find is the cause of most swirls and holograms is that the detailer chooses to aggressive a pad and/or too aggressive a compound in working on the paint finish.

In summary my experience with the tool is positive. The only thing require is a open mind about things that are new.

I have been around long enough to remember how the detail industry rejected velcro attahcments prefering the screw on method of attaching a pad to the buffer, because that is the way they had always done it.

I remember how the industry rejected foam pads because wool was the only way to go.

How the industry rejected liquid compound because the only good compound was a red paste compound.

What you all have to realize is that things change and you need to look at the changes with an open mind if you are going to grow and prosper in the business.

Just some well intentioned thoughts

Bud Abraham

Well by this thought process.............. "Bud" let's go to dinner together and I put a "Steaming plate of poop" in front of you and say" Dig in chief " and of course your reply "Oh no.............." and I retort " But Bud you are coming to conclusions before you have the facts.............just imagine it's fudge"

 

[Richie's Custom Detailing]

Ok. I bought one in february. Used it a few times and hated it. in March or even April if you said you wanted to try one out, I'da mailed you mine!
Now You'll have to get your own. After hours of arguing on the phone, I am a rotary high speed wooly pad guy been doin it that way since 1976 or so....Hey! I just discovered clay bars a year ago...I had been using Pre kleano and solvent for that job...anyhow,
back to the buffpro...here is a MB SL500 black beauty that I wet sanded 1k, 1500 then 2k then buffed with BuffPro. came out perfect. These shots are compund only. No polish or swirl stuff etc.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh67/coalchisel/P1080805.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh67/coalchisel/P1080810.jpg
I finished with the wool pad YES!!!! and well if i told ya I'd have to come shoot ya.
So, don't hate it! The pads to me are and issue, but a 3M superbuff II or III os 30 bucks or so now too.
I also have done several "lot cars" gone straight from heavy compounding to wax. No swirl remover or polish...A cut & a wax. I'll get pic's of this Honda Ridgeline that has been rained on here in Puget Sound that was done with the Buffpro a month a go & has no swirls...ya see all the swirl remover/glaze gets washed off eventually...drive by some car lots at night & have a look at stuff that has been standing for awhile. Then come drive by mine & see what this buffer has done for my game. better yet, do 1/2 a car with what you have been doing, then do 1/2 a car with the BuffPro and wash it 3 or 4 times and then see what you think!!!
feel free to call or email anytime. JO
http://www.josgaragedetail.com

You just discovered clay bars a year ago? Looks like you are on the cutting edge of technology!

I like the use of cardboard as a means of keeeping debris off of the wiinshield.

In my humble opinion this abomination belongs in the as seen on TV category...but wait there's more!

Too bad Billy Mays is no longer with us as I'm sure he could have sold millions of these the average late night consumer.

 

[Trouble]

I thought I was the one who was the trouble maker?

Regards,

Trouble :huh:

 

[drumbo]

So why you gotta be hating here? I have been doing this kind of work for 30 years. I have actually used the machine. You? I try to save money on materials, time etc. it all adds up. I am paid by the piece not hourly. It produces a great finish faster than I had been getting with rotaries, D.A. style buffers etc. Obviously this machine won't fit everywhere, every job. I do use several machines on a job always have. I will put it up against any job by any guy. OK?

 

[Trouble]

I will put it up against any job by any guy. OK?

Maybe we could have a contest.....fly in detailers from around the world to compete and see who is the greatest detailer of all time


Regards,

The best there is, was and will ever be :-B

 

[Richie's Custom Detailing]

So why you gotta be hating here? I have been doing this kind of work for 30 years. I have actually used the machine. You? I try to save money on materials, time etc. it all adds up. I am paid by the piece not hourly. It produces a great finish faster than I had been getting with rotaries, D.A. style buffers etc. Obviously this machine won't fit everywhere, every job. I do use several machines on a job always have. I will put it up against any job by any guy. OK?

Hating? I don't think so, I actually find it amusing.

Looking at your website you seem to be a jack of all trades and a master of nothing.

By the way...WTF is the deal with the butterfly? Too many disco biscuits back in the day?

I use this one for the heavy stuff.

http://www.allproducts.com/machine/catchmatch/Product-2007127115828.html

and this one for the final polish.

http://www.aircraftpolish.com/image folder/specmachSA.jpg

Now as far as this statement goes.

I will put it up against any job by any guy.

Lets put that to the test.

 

[JetDet]

Hey guys. I've read this entire thread, and before I registered I made sure to read the forum rules and will abide by them to the letter. I hope you'll allow me to weigh in on the subject at hand.

First, an introduction. My name is Brian, and I am the Operations Supervisor for the company who manufactures the BuffPro. Obviously, I have the financial (and maybe somewhat "biased") interest in these products, and I am stating that up front as per the forum rules. Personally, I feel that honesty is the very best policy in any forum, especially one with "Truth" in the forum name. And to tell you the truth, had I come by this site earlier, I would have presented myself in this manner without even having read the rules.

I'm not here to defend Bud, or even defend the product, in a manner of speaking. I would just like to share my personal experience with the BuffPro, and how I came to work for the company.

As an aviation detailer at Spirit Airport in Chesterfield, MO, for years a large part of my job was polishing aluminum leading edges of wings and engine inlets, TR cones, APU exhaust panels, prop spinners, and aircraft body paint. The last company I worked for, American Air Charter, hired me as their first staff detailer, and I worked alone on ten small to midsize business aircraft.

My general process for polishing leading edges involved three steps. I exclusively used Nuvite Metal Polish. I would begin with the G6 grade, a very aggressive cutter. This would remove the heavy oxidation and scratches, but would leave a hazy look and a lot of circular micro-marring. Next I would use Nuvite's grade C, a medium cutter, which would remove the haze and smooth everything out, though in the sun swirl marks would be left everywhere. Finally I would apply Nuvite S, a finisher, and polish with a lateral motion by hand. This would result in a perfect, mirror finish under any lighting condition. However, as you guys probably know, the process with a rotary buffer took forever and left a huge mess. I had to mask large portions of the aircraft wings and fuselage before I started, and at job's end the floor would require a good zamboni clean. Depending on the size of the aircraft, this process would normally take no less than 15 hours, and on larger aircraft up to 25 hours if I was doing the job alone.

One day last summer, the BuffPro guys came into my hangar and asked if I would like to try this product out. I borrowed one, with a wool pad. The next day I worked on a Sabreliner that had heavily oxidized leading edges. All of the exposed metal surfaces were a dull gray and were filled with pits and scratches. Also, the white paint aft of the APU exhaust was heavily stained, as were the engine bottoms.

I completed the brightwork, with almost no mess from splatter, in nine hours. Instead of the three step process, I used exclusively Nuvite C grade. I did every metal surface except for the inside of the engine inlets, which because of the size of the BuffPro and the smaller Sabreliner engine size, had to be done with a small rotary. Then I used Flitz paint polish to buff out the exhaust stains, and that process literally took about 10 minutes. I completed a fast wax and had the entire aircraft exterior done in less than two 8-hour shifts.

I made my boss buy me a BuffPro, and quickly began saving more and more time per detailing job as I got used to a good technique. After about a month with the thing in hand, I starting hounding this company, who is based in St. Louis, for a job. I called and emailed and left messages for months until they finally hired me. That is how thrilled I was with the product - I knew first-hand through experience that there was something special about it.

Some of the concerns here are based on videos and pictures, not hands-on experience. I would like to address just a few of those. First, the weight of the machine is comparable to an electric Dewalt I used while working for Emerson Electric Aviation. BuffPro is possibly 1 to 1.5 lbs heavier at most. However, because of the way the drum spins, the machine will "climb" side panels (in my case, vertical tail sections, fuselage and engine sides) - all you need to do is guide it. The only part that was difficult for me was the bottom of wing leading edges or bellies - but how many of you auto detailers will be doing the bottoms of cars? Luckily, the process went so quickly for me I didn't have to hold the buffer that way for long.

Second, the price. Our machine and pads are priced very reasonably when you consider that the pads greatly outlast those of rotary or orbital buffers. I have had customers tell me our foam pads last them upwards of 20 vehicles. The machine itself, because of the way it spins, requires less product, fewer steps, and it saves time during the job and for cleanup. That said, it is more than worth the cost.

Lastly, the size. The foam pads easily contour to body panels as you buff, making it easy to orient the buffer in a manner which can get it just about anywhere. I would wager 80% of your auto jobs can be completed without having to use another buffer, and in those cases where it's necessary, you would only have to do around a door handle or a sideview.

I've seen with my own eyes, this buffer completely restore a heavily oxidized headlight lens in less than 60 seconds - a service many detailers offer for $50 or more.

I want to say that I am not here to sell the BuffPro to you. We have distributors nationwide and are now expanding internationally as detailers discover its benefits. A couple of sales from this website wouldn't make a difference in our fiscal year. The idea is to try to get a handle on misinformation and clear up concerns. As for Bud, the way he sells his products are up to him - though I would say that he has been around detailing a long, long time, and he is one of the most knowledgeable guys in the industry you will find.

If you guys have any question, I'll be glad to answer. I hope you all don't mind my lengthy weigh-in. If so, I graciously apologize.

Whatever methods and tools you use to get the results you're looking for, I wish you all the best in your business.

(Thanks btw to JO for the link to the site and for posting his positive BuffPro experiences)

 

[JetDet]

Oh, one more thing. We are big on R&D and are constantly making tweaks to our products based on customer feedback, both positive and negative. We are also committed to customer service. That said, if any others of you have actually USED the BuffPro (viewing pictures and videos and making assumptions doesn't count), and still have negative feedback, we will be glad to listen and will do anything in our power to make it right. There is at least one member of your forum whom I am sure will attest to these facts.

Thanks for your time, guys.