BREMBO upgrade feedback/opinions...

J

Jake11375

New member
I've been thinking about upgrading my rotors and wanted to get some feedback from some Autopians that may have some experience with these types of brakes. I'm a fairly aggressive driver so I thought I'd look at something a little more performance oriented. Here are the rotors I'm looking at getting. Keeping the stock size on the calipers and pads, brake kits are a little too pricey. :)



Brembo



A few concerns:

(A) Will stopping power increase with OEM sized pads

(B) Any problems with noise, squeaking, squealing, etc,

(C) Smooth braking?

(D) Longevity



TIA for any feedback!
 
tires stop the car, upgrading the brakes don't help much. There's an article here that explains everything.

Anyways, I would opt for just the slotted rotors to avoid any possibilty of warping with the cross-drilled.
 
Good point, gnahc. However, not entirely true. If your brakes aren't good enough to exploit the grip of the tires, and have poor feel, then your limitation is your brakes. Witness radial calipers, giant cross-drilled rotors, high boiling point brake fluid, etc, etc, for motorcycling racing applications. I have not tracked my car, but I track my bikes regularly, and I can tell you that my limitation in braking is not my brakes, nor my tires, it's my b*lls! :)



Seriously though, good brakes with good feel really make a difference. That's why most modern cars have four wheel disc breaks, and not drum brakes.:D
 
Very informative article gnac, thanks. So it looks like I'll be looking for slotted rotors instead. I had a set of rotors that developed black spots on them from heavy braking. I went a "little" easier on the next set. So it seems slotted rotors will help resist this kind of wear, right? If the drilled rotors will increase any likelyhood of cracking, I'll definitely want to avoid that.
 
The black spots that develop on rotors are usually from the transfer of brake pad material. Here is a great article about the myths of “warped rotors� (and about the importance of bedding in new pads and seasoning new rotors.) ARTICLE It also talks about the common reasons for pad material being deposited on rotors and some ways to avoid it.



I would do some more research on brakes and braking systems before jumping in and getting different rotors. However, if you end up getting new rotors get new pads at the same time. The older pads will be worn to match the wear patterns of your old rotors and may result in uneven contract point on the new rotors which can “pulsing� and/or uneven wear patterns on the new rotors.



You really should determine with it is you dislike about the factory system. Honda usually does a good job of matching its brakes for the car. Bigger rotors will mean more unsprung weight and additional rotational mass. These increases can effect handling and/or acceleration.



The importance of making sure everything is working properly is also important. When was the last time your brake fluid was changed? Old worn out fluid can lead to brake fade and poor brake feel.
 
Jake11375 said:
Very informative article gnac, thanks. So it looks like I'll be looking for slotted rotors instead. I had a set of rotors that developed black spots on them from heavy braking. I went a "little" easier on the next set. So it seems slotted rotors will help resist this kind of wear, right? If the drilled rotors will increase any likelyhood of cracking, I'll definitely want to avoid that.
Click to expand...



I doubt slotted rotors will provide you with any real performance benefit - glazing pads like they talk about isn't something you're likely to see on a street car. Those black spots on your previous rotors - were they cheap rotors? It could have been impurities in the rotors that were causing that.



Invest in a good set of pads, some good solid rotors, some stainless lines, new fluid, and some good tires - then if your brakes still aren't performing how you want them to, go from there. There's a *HUGE* difference between an aggressive driver and a track driver - if the above suggestions aren't good enough, then quite honestly, you're probably driving too hard on the street.
 
agreed. IMO the OEM brake system is fine for street, even if you swap in performance tires. Aftermarket rotors, lines, etc. are for appearances for the most part. All of this changes if you hop onto the track, of course.



Hmm, gotta check the brakes on my bike sometime....no track days for me just yet :P.
 
I also think most OEM systems are good enough for the street, even with performance tires. Most brakes performance problems I have seen on the street are related to improperly bedded bads, air line the lines, or old brake fluid.



Check that that master cylinder's fluid is not dark in colour, if so, change the fluid, and do a good bleeding. While you're at it, you might want to swap out for a more aggressive set of pads, and then if you're still unhappy with the performance, than go with the brake systems route, as most people have suggested so far.
 
2wheelsx2 said:
I also think most OEM systems are good enough for the street, even with performance tires. Most brakes performance problems I have seen on the street are related to improperly bedded bads, air line the lines, or old brake fluid.



Check that that master cylinder's fluid is not dark in colour, if so, change the fluid, and do a good bleeding. While you're at it, you might want to swap out for a more aggressive set of pads, and then if you're still unhappy with the performance, than go with the brake systems route, as most people have suggested so far.
Click to expand...



Again - with fresh fluid, good pads, and good tires, he should be happy with it for street driving - if that's inadequate for your driving on the street, IMHO, you're probably driving too hard.
 
I'm definitely gettting a new set of pads. I usually go with Raybestos quiet stop. I'm not actually upsizing the diameter of the rotors just going with the slotted option. Not really looking for performance just mainly trying to keep from warping, marking the rotors so quickly. I want to keep everything fairly simple and inexpensive. I had my last pads, calipers, and rotors installed by Jackie Cooper Electronics. Being just over a year ago and the present condition of the rotors perhaps they didn't bleed them properly, like Bet993 suggested. I've driven harder on previous sets of pads and rotors without the black spots or warping.
 
Well, a few suggestions:



First off, if you want a noticeably stronger brake pad, try some Hawk HPs - a lot of people I know use those with what they consider favorable results



Second, slotted rotors won't help with the black spots, nor will they help with warping. Unless they're the same price or cheaper, I wouldn't bother.



Third, bleeding the brakes has nothing to do with rotor wear - brake fluid will change the feel of the pedal more than anything else.



Fourth, why new calipers? That's not something you should need to replace. Even rotors should be able to be turned if necessary - and if you do brake jobs a little prematurely, they shouldn't even need that. I've only had to have 1 rotor turned EVER, and that's because that caliper stuck for awhile before I noticed it, and chewed through the pad in just a couple thousand miles. New rotors aren't usually necessary.
 
Sickofitall I may try those HPs. Thanks for the suggestion.



You say slotted rotors won't help in resisting warping etc. What exactly are the slots for? I'm not too hip on aftermarket upgrades at all. In fact, this will be my first stray from OEM parts performance wise besides my wheels and tires.



I got new calipers becuase they put them back on wrong and had to basically give me a whole new braking system for a little of nothing. I went in for new pads on the front and ending up getting, pads (2 sets), calipers, rotors (2 sets), and rear drum assembly. I had to go back about five times becuase of squealing, uneven braking, and quick warping, (like 2 days) So I paid like $175 for over $400 worth of work. I won't be going back there to say the least.
 
One thing that is overlooked are the hydraulic lines that run from the brake distribution tubing to the calipers. Most stock start to "give" after time and aid in poor performace. A good set of teflon braided lines are what you need along with DOT 5 (if possible) fluid as it has a higher boiling point, but you must clean ALL fluids out of the system as it's not compatible with older types. There are several grades of fluids to match your application.



As for rotors, the meater they are, the better they can dissipate heat and withstand warping. A good pair that have effective cooling is also in your favor. There are pros and cons to slot and drilled, all depends.



Contact Brembro directly to match the application so you do not get a mismatched pair, or spend way over for types you may never use. Mutli-piston calipers are very effective in stopping power as they can apply more force to a pad. Pads are where you must match to a rotor as well. You can get very esoteric or just stay within semi-metalics. It's your $$$$.



Some muti-piston types require the master cylinder be changed as well to provide the added fluid demand.



Check out this months Road & Track as they had a shoot-out on some cars that were modified both suspension and engines and list brakes as well.



Regards,

Deanski
 
Hawk pads are phenominal but they do squeal and they are kinda ruff on the rotors. Ferodo DS2000's are good as well and are a little quieter and less ruff on the rotors. But still, if you're looking for something quiet and gentle look elsewhere.



Also I'd say go with normal vented rotors like sick of it all says. I've went through two sets of ATE powerslots and they warp so quickly I can't believe it. Supposedly they're the best slotted rotors or something like that. The slots are there for removal of gasses that come from heated pads. I'm not sure how well they actually work though.



My reccomendation is go with either Hawk or Ferodo pads if you are agressive and also go with some ATE superblue fluid also some braided stainless steel lines to improve braking feel (night and day difference).



If that isn't good enough get a performance suspension and some sticky tires.



If that isn't good enough get a bigger set of brakes with multipiston calipers. Anybody who says that all this will do is make the brakes lock quicker are wrong. If you have a portable cd player and an aol cd (or any other worthless cd) try this test. Press down on the lid near the center of the cd until the disk stops or near stopped. Make sure that you don't press down near the laser. Now try doing this around the outside of the cd. You'll notice that you can push harder on the outside of the cd before the cd locks up. It's the same principal.



I wasn't satisfied with my ferodo DS2000 pads/ATE powerslots/ATE superblue fluid/stock calipers so I'm buying a wilwood big brake kit. VW never should have put 10 inch brakes on a passat. The 11 inch brakes that they put on the VR6 model were MUCH better.
 
Jake11375 said:
Sickofitall I may try those HPs. Thanks for the suggestion.



You say slotted rotors won't help in resisting warping etc. What exactly are the slots for? I'm not too hip on aftermarket upgrades at all. In fact, this will be my first stray from OEM parts performance wise besides my wheels and tires.



I got new calipers becuase they put them back on wrong and had to basically give me a whole new braking system for a little of nothing. I went in for new pads on the front and ending up getting, pads (2 sets), calipers, rotors (2 sets), and rear drum assembly. I had to go back about five times becuase of squealing, uneven braking, and quick warping, (like 2 days) So I paid like $175 for over $400 worth of work. I won't be going back there to say the least.
Click to expand...



There are a number of different brake pads people like - Panthers are good, so are Axxis Metal Masters. One thing I'll warn you about - pads like these will also chew up rotors, whereas OEM pads generally WONT. If you use these pads, you can expect to pay a premium for them (I've heard of people spending a couple hundred dollars on pads alone), and you can expect to replace rotors more often. Like I said, I'm honestly surprised you're replacing these rotors.



Slotted rotors have slots to help prevent brake dust from affecting performance (not an issue with any pad you will ever use), and to help prevent glazing pads from high heat (higher heat than you will ever experience on the street - heat high enough to cause brake system failure on 99% of street vehicles). You don't need them - I had slotted rotors on my last car, an Integra GSR - and I didn't notice a bit of difference.



What kind of car is this for? If you really feel like you NEED to upgrade your brakes, you can probably do so for fairly cheap - I can make some suggestions that won't break the bank, if you don't mind doing some junkyard hopping.
 
B3Golde said:
Hawk pads are phenominal but they do squeal and they are kinda ruff on the rotors. Ferodo DS2000's are good as well and are a little quieter and less ruff on the rotors. But still, if you're looking for something quiet and gentle look elsewhere.



Also I'd say go with normal vented rotors like sick of it all says. I've went through two sets of ATE powerslots and they warp so quickly I can't believe it. Supposedly they're the best slotted rotors or something like that. The slots are there for removal of gasses that come from heated pads. I'm not sure how well they actually work though.



My reccomendation is go with either Hawk or Ferodo pads if you are agressive and also go with some ATE superblue fluid also some braided stainless steel lines to improve braking feel (night and day difference).



If that isn't good enough get a performance suspension and some sticky tires.



If that isn't good enough get a bigger set of brakes with multipiston calipers. Anybody who says that all this will do is make the brakes lock quicker are wrong. If you have a portable cd player and an aol cd (or any other worthless cd) try this test. Press down on the lid near the center of the cd until the disk stops or near stopped. Make sure that you don't press down near the laser. Now try doing this around the outside of the cd. You'll notice that you can push harder on the outside of the cd before the cd locks up. It's the same principal.



I wasn't satisfied with my ferodo DS2000 pads/ATE powerslots/ATE superblue fluid/stock calipers so I'm buying a wilwood big brake kit. VW never should have put 10 inch brakes on a passat. The 11 inch brakes that they put on the VR6 model were MUCH better.
Click to expand...



Actually, I was saying use OEM or Brembo blanks - X-drilled are worthless except for looks, and slotted aren't effective for street duty - it's like running a turbo at 2 PSI, it's just pointless. Though I've never heard of them warping easier - the only problem I had with one of mine was from a sticking caliper.
 
I was agreeing with you actually. ;) By vented I meant the ones with two layers of rotor material instead of one solid disk. Do hondas still use solid rotors in front? :scared



I don't know if my early warping problem was caused by abuse or what. People on the vwvortex all love their ATE slotted rotors and don't have anything bad to say about their life but both of mine warped in 5k miles. I thought I broke them in correctly by braking like a normal person for 200 miles but when I put my wilwoods in I might brake them in for 500 miles. When I replaced my old set of ferodo pads they were blue :shocked



BTW- I like your avatar, it goes together well with your username. :xyxthumbs
 
Ah, ok, "vented" is kind a ubiquitous term - could mean slotted, crossdrilled, or vaned (vaned is what you're talking about). I agree - vaned rotors are beneficial, if you get good ones - the thinner rotor plates (since it's a dual plate system) are more prone to warping in excessive heat or with too many impurities, but they do stay cooler.



http://board.mr2faq.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=161553



There's a good link discussing slotted vs. crossdrilled vs. blanks - and the general rule at the end is that slotted and crossdrilled are for looks.
 
Brakes are not somthing you should skimp on.



What are they designed to do !!!! Exactly



First of all do brake fluid, i reconmend AP Racing, or a high quality DOT 4. The pads, i like EBC Green Stuff.



Then if you still want more, re-enforce the master cyclinder with a master cylinder brace and get braided brake lines.



Theeeeeennn if you still arnt happy, do the rotors and calipers. 4 pot, 6 pot, even 8 pot?



You could get Ceramic rotors or carbon. Problem with carbon though you basically have to do a hard stop from 200 km/h to get them up to working temp, so forget them.



My favorites are AP Racing, not as pricey as Brembo's but just as good.



cross drilled or slotted? heck get both !!!



Yes a non solid disc is techically vented, allows for outgassing as well (hot gasses created by hot pads and rotors meeting). But it all means nothing if there are no ducts venting the back of your disc so you have constant airflow.



go to the AP Racing website, great read.



Sorry folks but im nuts about brakes, ever since i first saw them glow.:bow :shocked
 
I did quite a bit of research on drilled/slotted rotors last night for advantages they carry over standard rotors. I basically found they generally run 80-90 degrees cooler than standard rotors. This is apparantly the only benefit without making other changes to the braking system. It also said they warp a lot easier if they are not bedded properly though. So installation is a key factor as well.



*EDIT* Forgot to mention that the drilled rotors help vent gasses caused by pads if any.
 
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