brand new paint job, scratched!

[buda]

Did not know that either until John Hughes, with Ketch's assistance put together a presentation on paint finishes at a Car Care World Expo a few years ago.



Good lesson for us all to be open to learn all the time.



Bud Abraham

 

[David Fermani]

As you say, 60 to 90 days before putting any type of protection product on the paint (wax or paint sealant)

You might want to look into 2 products from Optimum called Car Wax & Opti-Coat. Both are 100% safe for fresh refinishes. They were designed by a Dr. in the organic & polymer industry that I understand worked with many of the OEMs/paint manufactures designing their finishes. I believe Zaino Z2 & Z5 are another line that is paint safe and was designed by a career painter. And Zaino is believed to have silicone too! Both lines have been used for a long time on new car (re)finishes without any adverse effects.

Even OEM factory paint requires 21 days before sealing to allow solvent to evaporate.

I don’t find this too relevant or yet accurate from my experiences. As a matter of fact I know 2 dealers that seal (with warranty) every one of their vehicles immediately after they get dropped off and mechanically prepped. Surely after 10’s of thousand of cars and decades later there would be some kind of consequence from doing so. As a matter of fact I remember the days when Ford would advocate having the dealer seal their cars in inventory to avoid oxidation. Remember the Ford Rotunda Car Polisher Machine? I know 2 Ford dealers that had and used those religiously. We actually purchased a retired unit from Bill Brown Ford in Livonia, MI many years back.

Gentlemen paint curing and solvent evaporation are two different things.

Can you please elaborate how each one is different and their importance for the application of wax/sealants on fresh paint?

It was further validated by my contacts with the Dutch automotive paint company Akzo-Sikkens.

What I would suggest you do is contact, on line, one of the major automotive paint companies: DuPont; Akzo-Sikkens; Glausruit; BASF; Herbert Standox or Sherwin-Williams and get to their tech dept and ask how long it takes for solvents to completely evaporate from OEM thermocuring paint finishes and from aftermarket paint finishes.

FYI: Akzo Nobel (manufacturer of the Sikkens brand) doesn’t service the OEM auto paint industry. Just refinish. They do sell to heavy equipment manufacturers, but totally different technology altogether.

If you do that it can seal in the solvents that are in the paint. Solvents are used simply as the "carrier" to enable the paint to be sprayed. Once the paint chemically cures the solvents do have to evaporate which can take up to 60 to 90 days. If you seal before the solvents evaporate you can get "solvent-popping" in the paint.

Solvent pop is from incorrect application of paint(prep), not from prematurely sealing it with wax or sealants? Have you ever seen evidence of this that has been confirmed to have been caused from wax/sealants? As a matter of fact have you ever seen any evidence of any damage that waxing/sealing a finish prematurely has done? I also know a few body shops that wax every panel they paint within hours/days of application despite what their paint manufacturer/distributor advises. And, because it’s pretty warm down here they don’t even bake their work either most of the time. When asked, they also tell me they don’t ever have comebacks for defects caused by this sealing.

my automotive paint companies tell me is that it is recommended to wait 60 to 90 days for aftermarket paint and 21 days for factory paint to allow for solvent evaporation.

Recommending is a huge difference from not allowing. For example, all the OEMs don’t “recommend” the use of used parts in the collision industry either, but that doesn’t amount to much. Even to I-CAR standards. Especially when all their dealer body shops are using them and the warranty still is in effect.



As far as solvent evaporation, we *might* be talking about something so minute that it’s measured in parts per billion. That level is pretty insignificant and will not retard the evaporation of an OEM finish I’m told. You’re telling me that something this small can be blocked/trapped in by a wax or sealant that isn’t even measureable above the surface? How in the world can the base/color coat cure/outgas through the clear which is about the thickness of a sheet of paper then but not through a microscopic coat of wax/sealant? Especially even when a finish isn’t force dried?



Since reading this response I’ve actually taken on a mission to ask nearly 10 painters(so far) what their thoughts were about solvent pop caused from the use of wax/sealants. All claim that solvent pop won’t occur with today’s materials and technology. Personally, this whole concept of not sealing in fresh paint is a wives tale from yesteryear that the internet has glorified and made people so paranoid without anything more than opinion based on overbearing, all over the map manufacturer and body shop claims from generations past finishes. I’m willing to go one step further for the sake of experimentation. Tell me what wax to use, with what brand of paint, baked or not, and how soon after you’d like me to seal it and I’ll keep in out of the heat/sun and in my 76 degree house for a couple months. I’ll document the entire thing to put this argument to rest once and for all.

 

[Accumulator]

... I’m willing to go one step further for the sake of experimentation. Tell me what wax to use, with what brand of paint, baked or not, and how soon after you’d like me to seal it and I’ll keep in out of the heat/sun and in my 76 degree house for a couple months. I’ll document the entire thing to put this argument to rest once and for all.

That'd be cool. As you undoubtedly know by now, final hardness would be one of my primary concerns, so I'd appreciate your keeping that in mind should you actually end up doing this.



I'd be happy with a test done using Galsurit as it seems like "the usual stuff" in my area, but that's just me.