brand new paint job, scratched!

R

ReaperHWK

New member
Long story short, I have a 2006 F150 that got into an accident. After 16k worth of work the truck came out pristine, pretty much a new paint job except for the doors and the roof. Color match is excellent, shop did an awesome job.



Anyway, I was told by the shop not to wash or wax the truck for 3 months, and if I get bird crap on it just spray it off with a hose and wipe it with micro fiber if I need to. I think because the paint wasn't baked on.



About 2 weeks after I got the truck back, the front end was covered in bug guts from driving, I needed to get that off so it didn't etch. I decided to just wash the front end with carwash soap and be gentle with it(front end meaning just the front grill and front bumper). I wiped off the water as well with a microfiber towel because I didn't want water spots etching the paint either. It was either this or wipe off the guts with a water soaked towel and I thought that would be worse then using car wash soap.



Now I have small scratches(swirls) and 2 kinda big straight scratches on the front bumper now(they are all surface and can get buffed out I'm sure).



Question is, what do I do?? I figure I leave them until 3 months goes by and use 3m polishing compound to get them out, is that right? Also, what do I do next time my front end is covered in bug guts?? This car is a driver and I can't garage it!
 
ReaperHWK- Despite what the shop said, you *CAN* wash fresh paint. In fact, paintshops do it all the time. They also sand/compound/polish fresh paint. AFAIK (and I've been dealing with repaints since the mid-'70s), the only things to consider about a fresh repaint are the following:



- Hardness. Many paints (especially if not baked/etc.) will take a while to attain their maximum potential hardness. I've had paints that were so soft at three weeks that I had to use my mildest polishes to avoid hideous marring, yet those same paints were nice and hard three months later, so much so that I had to use potent compounds on them. That's not all that common these days, but it does happen.



- Outgassing. This is the "fresh paint needs to cure" thing, and AFAIK the primary concern (and it's the concern that *I* care about) is related to the hardness issue; while the paint outgasses/cures it continues to harden and you don't want to interfere with that process by waxing/ect. too soon. Others have talked about "clouding" and other serious issues, but I've never actually seen anything like that.



The basic argument here is that the paint cures by letting off gas/vapor/solvents and you don't want to seal such stuff in by coating the paint with wax. Is it a valid argument? Opinions differ to say the least and we've discussed (not to say argued ;) ) it to death here many times and I won't get into that again now.



That said, I err on the side of caution and use Meguiar's #5 on fresh paint for at least three months. Others use stuff like OCW, and IIRC it's approved by Ford for use on post-production paintwork. Others just use their regular LSPs and say they've never had a problem. Note that Sal Zaino used to paint cars, and he says his stuff is OK for this. One school of thought says that water-based LSPs are OK but solvent-based ones are not.



But at the very least, you can wash the paint and use mild stuff like paint cleaners and fresh-paint-friendly glazes (Meguiar's Deep Crystal Step #2 Polish is commonly available OTC and is similar to the #5 that I like). The glaze will at least provide a little protection, even if you do have to redo it after every wash. Just try to be especially gentle during those washes in case the paint does need time to harden up.



Then, all that's left is to learn how to wash more gently so you don't keep marring it up. Heh heh, yeah...I know, that's a lot easier said than done!
 
cool, that's good news.



I don't care about waxing or polishing it right now, just want to keep it from getting damaged from acidic crap. I'll wait the three months until I buff the car out with some polishing compound and wax it, should be OK until then.



I figure I'll wash it once every 2 weeks or so now, and just get some new microfiber drying towels and be extra careful.



I don't know about you guys, but I think it's almost impossible to not to get small swirls in paint by washing it. My truck is black so it's the worst!
 
ReaperHWK said:
I don't know about you guys, but I think it's almost impossible to not to get small swirls in paint by washing it. My truck is black so it's the worst!
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That's one of those topics upon which some of us could write a book! OR at least an article (like the long-overdue one that I keep meaning to do :o ).



VERY short: it's possible to dramatically reduce wash-induced marring to the point where even "troublesome" colors can stay nice for a long time. My metallic black Yukon XLD (the color is called "Carbon Metallic") dog-hauler has picked up a few flaws over the last 15 months, but nothing that a normal person would see even if they were really trying.



But yeah, some (hopefully minor!) flaws are inevitable.



Using a foamgun to provide constant flushing and lubrication, and using Boar's Hair Brushes for the intitial passes (then switching to mitts) works great for me. It's a "dislodge and flush" approach where there's hardly any "scrubbing" involved and the dirt gets flushed away rather than being trapped in the wash media (my rinse buckets stay very clean even when doing a winter-filthy vehicle).



If you don't use a foamgun, and you just wear a mitt like a glove, and wash large areas (in this case that might mean a third of a panel ;) ) before rinsing out the mitt, then sure...you'll get some really nasty marring.



In the absence of a foamgun, try filling the mitt with shampoo mix by holding it under water in the shampoo bucket. Then hold it shut at the cuff and very gently whisk it across the panel while the shampoo mix seeps out of it. Rinse it out thoroughly once it's drained itself empty and repeat. Note it might take a lot of times to do a single panel one time, and you might need to redo the panel many times before it's completely clean (because the washing is so gentle).



Yeah, huge PIA. But then some people think that my foamgun-centric method is a huge PIA too; many say they're rather have marring :chuckle: But I go years without needing to polish and my vehicles don't need repainted due to overthinned paint.
 
Old thread I know, but our 2006 Honda Civic was just repainted on the drivers side about two weeks ago. I cleaned it last night,exactly how you say, which I've been doing without getting any swirls in that paint really at all! Unfortunately, even being that careful and washing like 1/8th of the door, with the grout sponge saturated in soap and water, then rinsing, and repeating, I noticed light marring today on my drive back to school. I know when the 30 days are over and I go home, I can polish it to remove the marring, but I want to minimize it as much as possible till then. Should I not wash that section at all when I go to the coin op weekly, using the 2 bucket method on the rest of the car? Should I just rinse that section with the spot free rinse each week till I go home? I tried to clean the door sill this morning after it was still wet from washing last night. I sprayed it with QD, a descent amount, but right now it's so soft, I scratched, or marred a small section of the door sill. I had taped the front end on my way back to school after I went home for the weekend once again, but this left residue all over what was taped. I removed everything by polishing the taped area, but there was a tiny piece of tape that got on the freshly painted door. I didn't even bother to touch it, so would it be ok if that adhesive residue from the blue 3m tape sits there for 3 more weeks until the paint cures, or could this damage the paint? I'll take 3m adhesive remover to get it off, then polish the remains off, but right now I'm afraid if I touch it, the damage that will be induced from that attempt on this ultra soft paint will be unheard of. Any advice? I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
 
All great points here. Another thought about why they don't want you to wash the car is they filled the swirls with a glaze and after 3 months they are just going to say "you scratched it, that wasn't there".
 
Rx8Fanatic- No way I'd leave the tape adhesive on there, I'd rather risk the marring. I'd worry that the adhesive could cause permanent issues that might be really tough to resolve.



Sure hope your paint hardens up!



You just might have to either do some goofy-extreme wash technique like I use, or else, live with more marring than you'd like :nixweiss Yeah, I know...tough choices all around, huh? But I gotta say, *I* can't wash marring-free with a sponge, and I used one for a good long time before I went off the deep end ;)
 
JohnKleven said:
All great points here. Another thought about why they don't want you to wash the car is they filled the swirls with a glaze and after 3 months they are just going to say "you scratched it, that wasn't there".
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Yeah, absolutely :xyxthumbs



Heh heh, funny how my good painters never say that "don't wash it" nonsense ;)
 
What do you use for washing? I bought a few detailersdomain sponges, and I really like them, I also have a couple of the much-reviewed lowes grout sponges. But lifetime supply of sponges aside, I'd still try something else reasonably priced. I have a wool wash pad from Adams that I've never used.
 
What do you recommend I use while I'm at school and have no garage (until next year), and no personal hose. Next year I have an apartment with a garage :)



One question though... Since I probably won't have a hose there either, do they make attachments to a sink so you can use a hose? Water is covered by the landlord, so I can use as I please. I'd rather wash the car at my apartment than waste money going to the coin op where I can't use as much water.
 
extrabolts said:
What do you use for washing? I bought a few detailersdomain sponges, and I really like them, I also have a couple of the much-reviewed lowes grout sponges. But lifetime supply of sponges aside, I'd still try something else reasonably priced. I have a wool wash pad from Adams that I've never used.
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BHBs for the intial passes, then sheepskin mitts. All used while spraying foamgun output at the point of wash media-to-paint contact. There's just no way I can press a sponge/whatever against the dirty paint and then move it without marring because the sponge/etc. grinds the dirt against the paint. But hey, that's just me and other people don't seem to have that problem :nixweiss
 
Rx8 Fanatic said:
What do you recommend I use while I'm at school and have no garage (until next year), and no personal hose. Next year I have an apartment with a garage :)
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You don't want to know. Seriously. But OK..since you asked, in your situation I'd do what I did when I decided to get serious about my education- I quit driving a cool black car, got a reliable beater, and just drove it through the carwash. Yep, I blew off the whole detailing thing until after I'd earned my degree. Then I went pretty nuts about this stuff and stayed that way.



One question though... Since I probably won't have a hose there either, do they make attachments to a sink so you can use a hose? Water is covered by the landlord, so I can use as I please. I'd rather wash the car at my apartment than waste money going to the coin op where I can't use as much water.
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Yeah, you can do that. Depending on the sink's faucet design you might not get the flow you would from a regular hosebib sillcock, but you can still do it. I've hooked extractors/etc. up to faucets countless times, just gotta unscrew the aerator and screw in the right adaptor.
 
Here's my set up for high flow water for a hose and a utility sink in my garage. The high flow set up is just a set up for a washing machine. I don't know the set up of your apartment/ if you could even run a hose through it to reach the garage, but if you have a washing machine in your place, possibly you could hook up a hose to it's connection like I have and run the hose to the garage. :nixweiss



DSC02265.jpg




DSC02266.jpg
 
I think it will be more like a faucet, but will it still work with enough pressure? I don't really use much pressure anyways with the hose. I usually use the shower setting on the nozel, so high pressure is unnecessary anyways.
 
Rx8Fanatic- I think the pressure and volume will be OK, not optimal and not what *I* like, but I bet you'll think it's OK. Eh, I bet the real compromise comes from the little water lines that lead to most sinks...nothing like the size of pipe usually run to an outdoor spigot, at least IIRC. But hey, I'm no plumber ;)
 
If you want to hook a hose up to the faucet and it's the type that can accomodate one, you ought to be okay. Maybe you won't have high pressure for spritzing down wheels and wheel wheels, but what's most important is that you can lightly hose down the car for the final rinse. I'm guessing you should be able to bucket wash with no problem.
 
Bill D said:
If you want to hook a hose up to the faucet and it's the type that can accomodate one, you ought to be okay. Maybe you won't have high pressure for spritzing down wheels and wheel wheels, but what's most important is that you can lightly hose down the car for the final rinse. I'm guessing you should be able to bucket wash with no problem.
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Yeah that's what I wanted to hear. The wheels I never let get that dirty anyways. So you can hook it up to a regular sink though, or is it done underneath by switching the line? I won't be there till September, but I'd rather start thinking in advance.
 
Do not worry about washing your car, this sounds like advise from a car salesman who tells you that you do not have to wax your car because you have clear coat. Do not assume all the advise you bet from "aledged experts" is accurate.



To give you some background, todays paints contain chemically curing resins which means they cure chemically vs by air dry.



On the factory assembly-line, they use thermal curing paint which has to be heated to almost 400 degrees for the paint to cure. And, since the vehicle has nothing on it when it is painted they can "bake" the paint on the car.



After the assembly-line if they find a flaw in the paint finish it is corrected and painted with acid-catylized thermal curing paint which requires a lower temperature for curing in the 200 degrees.



Aftermarket paint only requires about 140 degrees to cure and is not a thermal curing paint.



As someone stated earlier you can sand and compound a new paint finish within hours of painting so the idea you cannot wash the new paint is ludicrous to me.



What you cannot do is seal the paint with a wax or a polish that contains any silicone or wax.



If you do that it can seal in the solvents that are in the paint. Solvents are used simply as the "carrier" to enable the paint to be sprayed. Once the paint chemically cures the solvents do have to evaporate which can take up to 60 to 90 days. If you seal before the solvents evaporate you can get "solvent-popping" in the paint.



There is no worry about washing the car, but keep in mind that black paints and other darker colors get scratches, or mars in them by just looking at them. Only joking, but if you have or do own a black car you know what I am talking about.



Wash the car all you want but be sure to keep a great deal of water and shampoo on the car when using the mitt or sponge, and be absolutely sure you keep the mitt or sponge free of dirt and grit because that is what scratches the paint.



That is why the test done for Mercedes Benz by the Technological University of Munich to determine which was safer for a car's finish, machine washing or hand washing concluded that machine washing left less scratching and mars in the paint than hand washing, the car wash machines bombard the car with gallons of water and lots of shampoo during the wash process forming a barrier between the paint the the washing material be it cloth or foam.



When the solvent has evaporated after 60 to 90 days you can polish out the micro scratches with a good dual action buffer and foam pad; then keep a good coat of wax/sealant on the car every month depending on your climatic area and because you keep it outside.



Anytime you get insect residue, bird droppings, egg splatter, or even leaves on the car get them off with water and/or shampoo.



HOpe that helps.



Regards

Bud Abraham

DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS
 
buda said:
Do not worry about washing your car, this sounds like advise from a car salesman who tells you that you do not have to wax your car because you have clear coat. Do not assume all the advise you bet from "aledged experts" is accurate.



To give you some background, todays paints contain chemically curing resins which means they cure chemically vs by air dry.



On the factory assembly-line, they use thermal curing paint which has to be heated to almost 400 degrees for the paint to cure. And, since the vehicle has nothing on it when it is painted they can "bake" the paint on the car.



After the assembly-line if they find a flaw in the paint finish it is corrected and painted with acid-catylized thermal curing paint which requires a lower temperature for curing in the 200 degrees.



Aftermarket paint only requires about 140 degrees to cure and is not a thermal curing paint.



As someone stated earlier you can sand and compound a new paint finish within hours of painting so the idea you cannot wash the new paint is ludicrous to me.



What you cannot do is seal the paint with a wax or a polish that contains any silicone or wax.



If you do that it can seal in the solvents that are in the paint. Solvents are used simply as the "carrier" to enable the paint to be sprayed. Once the paint chemically cures the solvents do have to evaporate which can take up to 60 to 90 days. If you seal before the solvents evaporate you can get "solvent-popping" in the paint.



There is no worry about washing the car, but keep in mind that black paints and other darker colors get scratches, or mars in them by just looking at them. Only joking, but if you have or do own a black car you know what I am talking about.



Wash the car all you want but be sure to keep a great deal of water and shampoo on the car when using the mitt or sponge, and be absolutely sure you keep the mitt or sponge free of dirt and grit because that is what scratches the paint.



That is why the test done for Mercedes Benz by the Technological University of Munich to determine which was safer for a car's finish, machine washing or hand washing concluded that machine washing left less scratching and mars in the paint than hand washing, the car wash machines bombard the car with gallons of water and lots of shampoo during the wash process forming a barrier between the paint the the washing material be it cloth or foam.



When the solvent has evaporated after 60 to 90 days you can polish out the micro scratches with a good dual action buffer and foam pad; then keep a good coat of wax/sealant on the car every month depending on your climatic area and because you keep it outside.



Anytime you get insect residue, bird droppings, egg splatter, or even leaves on the car get them off with water and/or shampoo.



HOpe that helps.



Regards

Bud Abraham

DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS
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Thanks. So I do have to wait 60-90 days to polish it with my DA? I'm going home for the weekend pretty much when the 30 days are up, I had initially planed to remove the light marring with my DA with the least agressive method possible, like a black pad hopefully. If I can polish it, then I still can't seal it though for 60-90 days regardless?
 
Rx8 Fanatic said:
Thanks. So I do have to wait 60-90 days to polish it with my DA? I'm going home for the weekend pretty much when the 30 days are up, I had initially planed to remove the light marring with my DA with the least agressive method possible, like a black pad hopefully. If I can polish it, then I still can't seal it though for 60-90 days regardless?
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Like Bud stated, you can polish the paint immediatley(chances are it already was done by the shop). Just be sure to use a protection product that is safe for fresh paint.
 
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