Bad News For Us

The gov can easily enforced laws, one thing the gov is good at is suppression and they are good at it. They use people as a sample like Martha Steward, You read the paper about the IRS got someone on something all this scares the heck out the people. You ask how they are going to enforced the drain water laws, they are going to find one Co. somewhere and fine or jail someone and it will be in your local newspaper. It might read like this "Wash & Buff Co. out of my local home town was fined $10,000.00 for repeated offences that aloud 100000 gals of untreated wash water that was highly contaminated with a known chemical ba ba ba



One has to change to these rules or not be in biz, you can't adapt to change then you will not survive.

live up to a sample to others to follow in ethical standards in your home town



It doesn't take much to make your own environmental equipment, a rubber mat, a sub-pump you can even let a charitable org use your environmental equipment for there fund rising



anyway I know that I'm making a big deal more then I should but better to think ahead, I know I have to, better now or never. I know "we" (car detailers) can ***** all we want doesn't get us no where. but if we put are heads togather as a group and that will be where the power will be.
 
OOOHHHHHHH THIS FRIGGING GOVERNMENT BURNS ME UP!!!!



Sorry....a little libertarian rage there. What the hell is this law? Who is ever going to enforce this? What is the rationale behind not allowing GUTTER water to go into storm drains? What is the POINT of this? Who is responsible for this and are they up for reelection any time soon? Why can I choke on diesel exhaust from poorly maintained city buses but I can't rinse clean tap water down a storm drain?



This is absolute nonsense. Not to start a political debate, but the government of the US has me furious at the kind of legislation which they have the time to pass. My wash water goes into storm drains and it is completely unavoidable. This is OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!
 
The regulation not only requires car wash water from being redirected:



"Water from basement sump pumps and water runoff from rain spouts will have to be redirected into grassy areas adjacent to residences instead of into the street gutters heading for storm sewers."





So it's ok for rain water to come from your driveway and the street, but if it's runoff from your roof, forget it!? What a joke.
 
That article is from my local newpaper. I actually grew up in Clifton Heights, the town listed on the article. I still live in the area mentioned too. The last few years we have had a bad drought and they enforced the no washing/sprinklers/etc law with a group called the "water police" or something like that, i forget. They posted date when you were allowed to wash your cars, since we were an odd number house we were allowed to do it on the first and third weekends of the month only. Any other time we could get fined heavily. My dad actually wouldn't let me wash my car either, it was torture:shocked I spent a lot of money at the self wash during those droughts.



I can definitely see them enforcing this law if it is passed, at least in my area:rolleyes:
 
So....your feds (I'm Canadian) won't let you wash your car in your driveway because of resulting pollution, but they:

  • won't do anything about the filth spewed into the air by industry -- after all, acid rain hasn't been proven to exist, or if it does exist, it's not industry's fault (amazing what some people will do for money -- pay the right scientists enough, and they'll say anything you want, regardless of evidence. At least when "real" whores lie (by pretending they're enjoying themselves) it's not hurting anybody;
  • don't admit there's a greenhouse effect caused by industry etc. -- like acid rain control, that would be bad for business;
  • won't sign the Kyoto Accord, because that would be bad for business (I hear rumblings now that Canada's feet may be getting cold on Kyoto now too);
  • want to drill for oil in the Arctic (& Antarctica?) -- some of the most pristine and sensitive environments in the world; and
  • allow the use of deadly pesticides and herbicides domestically and agriculturally -- talk about your toxic runoff!



Now I'm no environmental zealot, I'm not sure I've got my facts (above) all correct, and I realize there's probably better examples out there than I came up with. I do know this, though: government absurd stupidity is rampant both in Canada and the US. Man, and we're the "first world." :eek:



Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about my tax dollars.

~3W
 

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I too was amused by reading about this Fed regulation. You see, I live near Milwaukee, WI.



Milwaukee Metro Sewage District, MMSD for short, pumps BILLIONS of gallons of raw sewage into Lake Michigan, over 6 billion gallons so far this year. Nearly every time it rains MMSD dumps untreated combined septic and sewage into the lake. The beaches are closed and the lake stinks. It is thick with black algae now.



The Feds, DNR and EPA, look the other way and now they are thinking of going after people washing their car if the water runs into the street.



This clearly shows we have lots of intelligent people in government.
 
Thx, Scottwax.



I really don't know what to think about the whole thing. I could probably go on the net and find equally convincing opposing arguments from equally reputable scientists. It's all a bit scary, when even seemingly basic things are the subject of scientific dispute.



It was really interesting what the founder of Greenpeace had to say. I've had my battles with environmental hotheads, when I worked for an outfit that ran a bunch of salmon farms on the west coat of Vancouver Island. Now there's another area where scientific disagreement seems to be growing, not abating.



What bothers me is that the environmentalists feel free to use any means to justify their saintly ends, including deceit, exaggeration, and withholding evidence detrimental to their cause -- but just catch a company in even just a bit of spin, and the company is vilified.



I think I'll go dust off my car.

~3W
 
I've done a lot of reading into global warming and cooling...since when I was in high school, the big scare was global cooling. Go figure. I guess they feel the need to scare us back into horse and buggy days.
 
Who knows?--answer: nobody! :scared



Maybe it's related to the masses of PhD and Masters students who need subjects to dissertate and thesisize on......you know, like hey--that cow just deposited methane into the air....now watch the farmer's reaction--I was right, he plugged his nose! Conclusion: cows are contributing to global stinking! A+



It does seem right to me though that the less we change our environment, the better. Should a practise have to be "scientifically proven" to be environmentally unsound before it's cause for concern? At the rate we're going, we'll never get any "proof," just more things for them to disagree on. Don't some things speak for themselves, environmentally? Like, if it's poisonous to anything natural, at least try to find a better way. Etc Etc.



A topic that goes on and on and on.



As for horses and buggies, I wonder what 'ol Betsy would think of s100. :)



~3W
 
I just read only the http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba230.html link and I can tell you that this website has setup a strawman argument regarding global warming. Anyone who has studied global warming actually would not try to scare you with apocalyptic musings. BUT you have to remember with the earth we have ALOT of time to work with. Ex. Those huge submarine canyons that form in the ocean basins are due to slow insignificant flows of dirt that no one notices. Multiply that rate by thousands of years and all of a sudden it is significant. Global warming is a reality but there are questions to its sources, the extent/duration, and the impact that it will have. The greatest inhibitor to the global warming debate is that most people debating it on both sides don't have a clue what they are talking about. I had a professor who told me last year that he had just got back from a conference with various government officials on the ocean and US policy. The overriding concern for the US was 'battlefield mobility'.



Global warming is not a myth. nor is it the next catastrophe movie. But what is needed is a little funding to further research it. After all, we only have one planet to work with.
 
I say if any detailer out there gets fined by the EPA they should turn around and sue them for wrongful persecution. The reason many big companies do not comply with Federal pollution laws is because it is cheaper to pay the fines than to convert over to cleaner running machines and factories. I had a short stint with Texaco many years ago and a foreman there told me that on cloudy, rainy days they would "de-tox" and vent off all kinds of crap into the air because with the rain and clouds you couldn't tell.



So once again it's the little guy who gets it in the rear. So the EPA should be faced with their shortcomings and their prejudice and their lack of making big companies comply to the laws that they make the little guy comply to. The EPA seems like the school bully who only picks on those he knows he can beat up.



Anthony
 
So I looked at the links from the original article. I can't seem to find the legislation and/or regulation that specifically bans the run off water as discussed in the article. I only see legislation providing funding and a process to receive such funding and the necessary guidlines for the use of said funding, to set up individual state agencies and/or administrations to enact a "management program" for controlling pollution added from nonpoint sources. The section 319 of the clean water act does not per se ban residential car washing.



Can someone direct me to the actual legislation and/or regulation that the article claims bans residential car washing?
 
I'll have to resort to washing the car in the garage while it's raining :( No fun.





Is it possible this is proposed legislation? A hoax? April Fool's a little early?





Read the story, it says runoff from gutters will be banned as well. How they gonna do that?



The next thing we know they're gonna require tiny micro-nets to catch the tiny rubber particles that come off a tire as it's being driven. :down This is just silly :down
 
It didn't say runoff from [roof] gutters will be banned. It said you can't dump it straight down into the drain. That's quite different.



Brian,

I don't have time right now to go through it and find you the exact citations authority for this is granted under. However, here's the primary epa link for NPS. http://www.epa.gov/nps/
 
Foxtrapper,



Yeah I looked at that site. Maybe I missed the legislation and/or regulation with the the actual activies that are "banned" or regulated, but I only see is an act authorizing and regulating the funding the formation of more localized "management programs" and not actual legislation stating what activities are "banned".
 
3Wheeler said:
[*]won't sign the Kyoto Accord, because that would be bad for business (I hear rumblings now that Canada's feet may be getting cold on Kyoto now too);
Click to expand...



Have you actually researched Kyoto? Maybe the Americans didn't sign it because they were too smart. Now, I'm not 100% clear on this, but my understanding is that each nation gets a certain amount of "credits" which basically amount to a ticket to produce pollution. Thing is, heavily industrialized nations (canada, us, etc.) will produce way too much. Fortunately Joe Blow 3rd world country doesn't produce enough and can sell us rich countries more credits. So basically what it amounts to is just a charity to poor countries... It doesn't really have anything to do with pollution controls. In the end I'm starting to think it won't really matter... All that will happen is the energy companies will up their prices to recoup the cost of the credits and maintain their healthy profits. The US will pay a little more for our O&G, and the price at the pumps will sky-rocket yet again... Life as usual really.



And let me say that to all Americans that are lamenting their government, believe me - the grass is always greener. There are a lot of messed up things down there, but the same goes for up here too. Like because we don't have a powerful gun lobby association (NRA) we get some BS about our government wasting 2 Billion dollars trying to get every farmer across the country to register their .22's and shotguns. Meanwhile punks in the streets carry illegal handguns that were illegal before and are still illegal after the registry.



And incidently we've had that same run-off law here in Calgary for probably 5 years now at least. I'm not sure why washing your dishes doesn't drain the same sort of detergents into the water supply... I suspect it does. It's a dumb law. I think the penalties here are much worse though... Up to 500 per violation if I'm not mistaken.
 
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