Are Waxes & Sealants Even Necessary??
- Thread starter David Fermani
- Start date
imported_weekendwarrior
New member
Are waxes or sealants neccessary? Well, that can't simply be answered with a yes or no.
The average car owner could probably not wax their car for several years, and not notice any significant detereoration. But of course, the average car owner is oblivious to things like swirls, bird etching, environmental fallout, and other things. As long as the clear coat hasn't failed, or the paint oxidized, all is good in most car owners' eyes.
I don't know what the current average length of ownership is, but I have to believe just about every modern vehicle's paint could at least survive that long, without a "failure", without the use of any wax or sealant (excluding being subjected to a lot of acid rain, or something out of the ordinary).
The average car owner could probably not wax their car for several years, and not notice any significant detereoration. But of course, the average car owner is oblivious to things like swirls, bird etching, environmental fallout, and other things. As long as the clear coat hasn't failed, or the paint oxidized, all is good in most car owners' eyes.
I don't know what the current average length of ownership is, but I have to believe just about every modern vehicle's paint could at least survive that long, without a "failure", without the use of any wax or sealant (excluding being subjected to a lot of acid rain, or something out of the ordinary).
Accumulator
Well-known member
weekendwarrior said:
I've obtained a few "never waxed" used vehicles with b/c paint (most recently my Yukon). Other than etching from acid rain/birds/etc. they've been in remarkably good condition. VERY different from single stage cars that were treated that way.
Just my experience with *those* vehicles though...
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
MuttGrunt said:
longdx said:
citizen arcane said:
Scottwax said:
GoudyL said:
After fully prepping this brand new 09 ZR-1, I topped it with 3 coats of LSP(Z5/Z2). A few months later the owner pulls it out of storage, drives it a few 100 miles and washes it 2 times (the car has never been through any elements, just dust). The morning that I was scheduled to wash/re-sealed it, a bird crapped on the hood/fender. He proceeded to drive the vehicle to work (which is where I was going to do the work) and pulled it into his indoor storage garage. This crap sat on the surface for no more than ~4 hours (if that), out of sunlight in a climate controlled garage. The owner showed me the spots, so I rinsed and then hand washed it and was disgusted to find that there was significant etching in the clear. At 1st I was hoping that because the water was beading so well that this was a sign of protection, but unfortunately, I was wrong.
I think we've ended up no further than before I asked these questions. I'm not convinced that LSP is worth oohing and ahhing about when they do no more than leave a thin film of oil (or whatever) on the surface. This really does no more than aide in washing and gives us the perceived notion that because the water is beading, there's something on the surface that is preserving it. If that gives people enough "value" to spend countless hours applying and arguing about how great these products are over another, then I feel detailers are being brainwashed.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
Hard to say, but I don't think so.
I think it was superbee or accumulator, can't remember off the top of my head that believed zaino offered very little in terms of enviromental protection. Long lasting, yes, but no actual "protection".
in my own experience, tuesday of last week a bird pooped on my hood . Its been about 70 degress the past week. I didn't get to wash my car until saturday evening. The car sits outside all day. I have maybe 3 coats of upgp on it. ONR took it off with ease, almost no aggitation. I was expecting there to be some kind of etching, but I could find any. This was under halogens and a led light.
On the other hand, I use OCW on my headlights since it boasts UV protection. A bird pooped on one. Maybe 4 hours went by until I could hit with some QD. Low and behold, there was etching.
Granted there are a lot of variables here, plastic isn't the same as CC, the amount of acid in each birds gut those days could have been on opposite sides of the spectrum, I think some products offer more enviromental protection than others. Put it this way though, we might not know 100% if they protect, but does it to hurt to PUT IT ON? I doubt it. and with wowa sealants that take no more than 10 minutes to apply, it doesn't take away time either.
Weight the options here, save 10 minutes not applying something and have the potential of the enviroment harming your paint, or use 10 minutes applying something that could potentially save your paint from damage. I think the choice is easy.
in my own experience, tuesday of last week a bird pooped on my hood . Its been about 70 degress the past week. I didn't get to wash my car until saturday evening. The car sits outside all day. I have maybe 3 coats of upgp on it. ONR took it off with ease, almost no aggitation. I was expecting there to be some kind of etching, but I could find any. This was under halogens and a led light.
On the other hand, I use OCW on my headlights since it boasts UV protection. A bird pooped on one. Maybe 4 hours went by until I could hit with some QD. Low and behold, there was etching.
Granted there are a lot of variables here, plastic isn't the same as CC, the amount of acid in each birds gut those days could have been on opposite sides of the spectrum, I think some products offer more enviromental protection than others. Put it this way though, we might not know 100% if they protect, but does it to hurt to PUT IT ON? I doubt it. and with wowa sealants that take no more than 10 minutes to apply, it doesn't take away time either.
Weight the options here, save 10 minutes not applying something and have the potential of the enviroment harming your paint, or use 10 minutes applying something that could potentially save your paint from damage. I think the choice is easy.
I am really surprised that with all the technology about these days, that is relatively cheap and easy to access by a manufacturer, that nobody has yet demonstrated any significant film build by a conventional LSP, and of course more by layering it. Imagine the argument to use more product by adding layer after layer IF you could prove it actually did build a thicker layer of LSP... Like the old shampoo marketing trick "...rinse and repeat..."
The total lack of evidence leads me think that its been tried and results demonstrated nothing, so we have never seen them....
I just wax/seal for shine and ease of cleaning primarily.
The total lack of evidence leads me think that its been tried and results demonstrated nothing, so we have never seen them....
I just wax/seal for shine and ease of cleaning primarily.
David Fermani said:
Unfortunately, durability and protection don't always go hand in hand. In my experience, carnaubas and the WOWO sealants (UPGP, OS and Z-CS) seem to offer more protection than any of the sealants I have tried. Carnaubas seem to make sense in that they probably lay down a thicker barrier but the protection offered by the WOWO sealants really suprised me.
Dsoto87 said:
Had that car been protected with a real wax, (e.g properly applied Turtle Wax Ice) the bird poop would have ricochet'd off the car and possibly killed the bird as well.
More seriously, there are a number of variables in play (e.g what the bird ate, how old the LSP layer was etc), and it would silly to generalise off one incident and especially one product (e.g Zaino), and certainly in the boutique part of the market.
It cannot be disputed that constant polishing will thin the paint, and so it must be inferior to non-abrasive approaches if we use residual paint life as our metric and assume that thinner paint will fail sooner.
What is really unclear to me is all this emhpasis on layering. If you really want your paint to become encrusted with wax, don't buff it off.
The process of buffing off the wax removes all but the thinest layer of LSP that is bonding to the paint. A wax that has a very strong wax-wax interaction, vs a strong wax-paint interaction will be streaky and very hard to remove.
imported_RZJZA80
New member
So far the cars that have never been sealed or waxed, don't really get bad water spots, but cars that have always been waxed and sealed, get water spots pretty quickly and they are bad. Besides adding gloss or whatever, i really don't think an LSp does a whole lot, except keep the clear slick for when you get around to washing it again.
RZJZA80 said:
I just did an Escalade today that obviously had no protection on the paint (no slickness at all, very loose beading) and it definitely had water spots. Not the nice tight round ones a well protected car would have but really ugly, odd shaped beads.
Nothing will protect the paint against sprinkler water if you allow it to dry on the paint. I always recommend to my customers that they absolutely never park near grassy areas-minimum of 25 feet to help prevent water spots.
TortoiseAWD
New member
craigdt said:
Um, GoudyL can chime in and speak for himself, but I'm pretty sure that was meant to be humorous.
Tort
TortoiseAWD said:
Well, I thought that might have been the case, but every post he recommends TW Ice that I wasnt sure...
As to the question about OS, while I have used only UPGP and not OS, I feel that it is the easiest LSP to apply. (due to its WOWA nature). Imo, its another case of less is more.