Are Waxes & Sealants Even Necessary??

David Fermani

David Fermani

Forza Auto Salon
Are waxes or sealants even necessary with today’s modern clearcoats? If so, how?



Are they adding longevity to its composition? Hence feeding, coating, sealing…



Are they eliminating UV rays from fading the basecoat?



Are they eliminating acids from rain, birds and insects from etching into the clearcoat?



Do they create a sacrificial barrier that eliminates surface marring due to slickness? Even though initial slickness falls off almost initially after the 1st few washes, does that mean this so-called protective characteristic has diminished too?



Is beading indicative of protection? If so at what capacity?





I've seen and worked on tons of 2-3++ vehicles that had never been LSP'd and most times never witnessed any damage that the LSP could have eliminated. Yeah, each one had tons of RIDS and swirls, but that's irrelavent to protection value.



Is the silicone content in LSP’s, (which is what’s really responsible for this attribute enthusiasts cherish/envy/idolize so much that creates a vehicle to bead and sheet water) add any benefit to the longevity of paint? (i.e. waxing an oxidized finish and 3 weeks later it fades right back but still beads water)







Thought:

If you split up a daily driven vehicle into ½â€™s where 1 side was LSP’d every 4 months for 10 years & the other half was lightly polished at the same interval with a non-abrasive finishing polish coupled with a non-abrasive finishing pad (i.e. jewelling) which side would be better preserved over the long term? No matter how well refined your wash regiment is, you’re still instilling a measureable (not seen by the naked eye mind you) amount of super micro-marring that’s slowly depleting the appearance of the gloss. The LSP’d side will never correct this super ultra fine micro-marring, thus snowballing the hazing effect, where the regularly polished side will be regularly correcting it. I’m sure at this point in your reading you’re saying to yourself that every time you polish the surface you’re thinning the thickness of the clearcoat, right? But are you, and how much? I’d be willing to say that this non-abrasive practice that’s being done 40 times over the course of the comparison *might* remove less than 5 microns (not mils) of film build? Doing the math and acknowledging the thought that many vehicle manufactures don’t recommend removing any more than ~.5 mils(12.7 microns) of clear before *possible* detrimental UV exposure *could* occur, there’s still tons of clear left to still be on the “safeâ€� side. The upside of this comparison is that the polished finish will look totally better than the just LSP’d side.





Which would you rather have?
 
"Are waxes or sealants even necessary with today’s modern clearcoats? If so, how?



Are they adding longevity to its composition? Hence feeding, coating, sealing…



Are they eliminating UV rays from fading the basecoat?



Are they eliminating acids from rain, birds and insects from etching into the clearcoat?



Do they create a sacrificial barrier that eliminates surface marring due to slickness? Even though initial slickness falls off almost initially after the 1st few washes, does that mean this so-called protective characteristic has diminished too? "



just throwing out there, optimum has come out with a new sealent that adds 75 microns and has a supposid 3 year dourability while still holding the gloss/ bead/ wetness factor that we all envy :nixweiss
 
"Is the silicone content in LSP’s, (which is what’s really responsible for this attribute enthusiasts cherish/envy/idolize so much that creates a vehicle to bead and sheet water) add any benefit to the longevity of paint? (i.e. waxing an oxidized finish and 3 weeks later it fades right back but still beads water)"



Not all LSP's contain silicone. Many premium and luxury waxes are all natural. I wouldn't attribute silicone to producing a desirable finish either.



With the waxes I use I can literally feel a measurable layer of protection above the clear. Any bird droppings or insect contaminants would not reach the clear, nor would it have the ability to etch into the clearcoat.
 
It may or may not make the paint last longer , but it sure makes it look good. I.M.O. it not how long the paint lasts , because modern paints last a long time , its how long the wax or sealants keep their gloss.
 
trippmann said:
just throwing out there, optimum has come out with a new sealent that adds 75 microns and has a supposid 3 year dourability while still holding the gloss/ bead/ wetness factor that we all envy :nixweiss
Click to expand...







is this sealant being sold yet? i looked for it but cant find it anywhere. anyone? thanks in advanced
 
some very good points being made by David here.



first off - we all love to care for our vehicles (and/or clients) by helping to provide protection and gloss but I think some of the responses are a little off.



Waxing will provide such a thin layer that given a short amount of time acid rain, bird poo, any APC/degreaser/soap will eat through this valued "protection" which I think is exactly the OP's point. With such a small amount of weak protection - can you actually say it's doing much to help?



surely waxing helps visually, but how much more does it do? With modern clear-coats, I have a hard time believing waxing will protect from rust in most cases.
 
FirstRate said:
With the waxes I use I can literally feel a measurable layer of protection above the clear. Any bird droppings or insect contaminants would not reach the clear, nor would it have the ability to etch into the clearcoat.
Click to expand...



:har:



I don't buy it.
 
David does bring up some food for thought. However, despite advances in paint, it still is exposed constantly to UV, environmental hazards, raildust, etc. Waxes/sealants provide a barrier, albeit temporary one to stem the onslaught of these contaminants. I would believe that the non-abrasive polished side would look better than the side wih just regular applications of LSP.
 
FirstRate said:
With the waxes I use I can literally feel a measurable layer of protection above the clear. Any bird droppings or insect contaminants would not reach the clear, nor would it have the ability to etch into the clearcoat.
Click to expand...



I don't know what LSPs you use, but I have to believe that you only *think* that you're feeling something. The thickness of most LSPs is measured in microns, which would be undetectable by the human hand.
 
All I know is when my car is freshly waxed/sealed its a hell of a lot easier to clean.



If my wax/sealant provides uv protection, inhibits rust or oxidation, or protects from acid rain and bug/bird etching than its icing on the cake.
 
Bostonsfavson said:
I don't know what LSPs you use, but I have to believe that you only *think* that you're feeling something. The thickness of most LSPs is measured in microns, which would be undetectable by the human hand.
Click to expand...



I don't know if you are right about that - try putting at least 4 coats of Klasse SG on a car and you will feel a difference. Like there is more clear on the car or it's wrapped in a plastic film.
 
another reason for wax and cleaning a car is mpg's, not to many people consider it. here is a post from edmunds.com



Think Clean

Keeping your car washed and waxed improves aerodynamics and therefore affects fuel economy. Engineer Tom Wagner, Jr. reported to Stretcher.com (as in stretching your dollars) a 7-percent improvement in fuel economy, from 15 to 16 mpg, during a 1,600-mile road trip.



Top 10 Tips for Improving Your Fuel Economy



i dont notice a difference but i guess it help's, my father in law works for united airlines and he states that all planes are waxed on a daily basis to consume fuel "how true this is "? who knows
 
I must admit i find myself pondering these very same questions. So far i have three main reasons why i value a good LSP.



1. Even on well prepped and polished paint, a good wax or sealant will make a visual difference. The difference is small and takes a trained eye, but it is there.



2. Wax makes a car easier to clean and reduces the damage the environment can inflict. I think the slickness and lubricity an LSP adds create this quality. Depending on the product the paint might not feel as slick as it did right after wax, but that does not mean it is not slick enough to do its job.



In a rain storm today water was beading on tired poliseal on the hood of my truck. On the hood of the truck next to mine, the water was all one perfect sheet. The way water moves on paint is crucial. When water beads it can move of the paint easer and it remains in a drop shape that carries its dirt away with it, therefore, less harmful contaminates end up on the paint. The dirt that does stick around is now easier to remove. Think of it like a suction cup on a greasy surface. When water is in one big sheet, dirt is in one big sticky sheet. Not good. I have worked with old paint with no beading that felt like sandpaper even after attempting to conventionally wash and dry it. How the paint got that way leads me into my third and final reason.



3. Even clear coat will oxidize. I do believe that a wax can work like a sunscreen for the paint. It is not unheard of for a product to do this. You can see proof in a few sunny weeks with a product like aerospace 303. oxidation is one of many ways paint can lose its slickness, its gloss, and its integrity. Ever see a car with clear coat failure? Usually the cause is a crummy respray, but even quality oem clear will fail if totally abused. In a lot of cases wax could have delayed or totally prevented the damage.



After seeing cars that are never waxed I will always protect my cars and i value LPS's that last a long time, bead like crazy and protect against UVA and UVB.
 
No doubt sealants/wax improve appearance - even on a brand new car.



If you never polish down your clearcoat, there is no doubt in my mind sealants/wax will add longevity to the life of the clearcoat before it eventually oxidizes and peals off.



The question is, what is the trade-off between correcting/polishing out imperfections that removes some clearcoat while using sealants/wax?



If it is a break-even on the life of the clearcoat while you beatify your car, it is well worth it in my mind.
 
David Fermani said:
Are waxes or sealants even necessary with today’s modern clearcoats? If so, how?



Are they adding longevity to its composition? Hence feeding, coating, sealing…



Are they eliminating UV rays from fading the basecoat?



Are they eliminating acids from rain, birds and insects from etching into the clearcoat?



Do they create a sacrificial barrier that eliminates surface marring due to slickness? Even though initial slickness falls off almost initially after the 1st few washes, does that mean this so-called protective characteristic has diminished too?



Is beading indicative of protection? If so at what capacity?





I've seen and worked on tons of 2-3++ vehicles that had never been LSP'd and most times never witnessed any damage that the LSP could have eliminated. Yeah, each one had tons of RIDS and swirls, but that's irrelavent to protection value.



Is the silicone content in LSP’s, (which is what’s really responsible for this attribute enthusiasts cherish/envy/idolize so much that creates a vehicle to bead and sheet water) add any benefit to the longevity of paint? (i.e. waxing an oxidized finish and 3 weeks later it fades right back but still beads water)







Thought:

If you split up a daily driven vehicle into ½â€™s where 1 side was LSP’d every 4 months for 10 years & the other half was lightly polished at the same interval with a non-abrasive finishing polish coupled with a non-abrasive finishing pad (i.e. jewelling) which side would be better preserved over the long term? No matter how well refined your wash regiment is, you’re still instilling a measureable (not seen by the naked eye mind you) amount of super micro-marring that’s slowly depleting the appearance of the gloss. The LSP’d side will never correct this super ultra fine micro-marring, thus snowballing the hazing effect, where the regularly polished side will be regularly correcting it. I’m sure at this point in your reading you’re saying to yourself that every time you polish the surface you’re thinning the thickness of the clearcoat, right? But are you, and how much? I’d be willing to say that this non-abrasive practice that’s being done 40 times over the course of the comparison *might* remove less than 5 microns (not mils) of film build? Doing the math and acknowledging the thought that many vehicle manufactures don’t recommend removing any more than ~.5 mils(12.7 microns) of clear before *possible* detrimental UV exposure *could* occur, there’s still tons of clear left to still be on the “safeâ€� side. The upside of this comparison is that the polished finish will look totally better than the just LSP’d side.





Which would you rather have?
Click to expand...



Very interesting discussion. Just when I think I've convinced myself to be on one side of it, a doubt comes up, and the whole argument starts over. Honestly, I don't know, but I do know that the bold part should be tatood on every detailing enthusiast's forehead. IMO, there's probably *much* more damage done during *most* guy's wash than we think.



Now to go back and read the whole thread... Good stuff, David, leave it to you to really get the brain cogs turning...
 
Modern clearcoat? How recent is MODERN?



My 1998 Dodge has never been waxed and it has alot of clearcoat failure.



My new civic, 10 years from now, hopefully wont have clearcoat failure because i wax it and maintain it
 
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