Aggressive polishes that are compatible?

C

Changeling

New member
Black Toyota Tacoma.

Newbie, no experience.



I will be using 3MPerfect-IT III Machine Glaze, 05937 is the part number.

I will be applying it with a PC7424 and a polishing pad, and do the complete truck with it.



A suggestion has been made that maybe I should have a "More" aggressive polish "on hand " so if I run into bad areas I can switch to it, then go back over the same area with the mild 3M 05937, to equal/blend out difficult areas (remove haze).

This sounds like an awesome idea to me, I would really hate to have to stop what I'm doing for lack of a product.



Accumulator has stressed that the 3M 05937 is a very mild polish, so, what I need is information concerning a compatible aggressive polish that I could use "IF" necessary in problem areas, but not over the whole vehicle. The 05937 must be able to blend out the areas of the harsher polish into the rest of the 05937's domain/finish.



What are my brand/options for the more aggressive (compatible) polish. I'm not going to need a lot, but really want to cover all possible problems because I am a firm believer in "Murphy's Law"!



Thank you, Changeling.
 
Changeling- I could always beat my old 3M PI-III drum again and say to track down some PI-III Rubbing Compound 05933 :D That's what I've typically use before the PI-III MG and yeah, it's fairly gentle (don't let the name scare you) and it works fine by PC/hand.



Now that I have that out of my system, you could also check out the Hi-Temp line at Top of the Line Auto Detailing Supplies . Their Heavy Cut Leveler (AKA "357") comes to mind.
 
The perfect companion to the MG you have would be the 3M PI III RC (rubbing compound) #05933. The MG will do a good job cleaning up anything left by the RC. Those 3M "twins" are still two of my favorite polishes, but you'll run into the same problem finding it because it too has been discontinued..... it's still around, but you might have to hunt a bit like you did for the MG. Doing a very short search here is one place that sells a quart for $22 (plus $7 shipping):



3M Perfect-It III Rubbing Compound (qt)



Other polishes about equal in cut to the 3M RC would be Poorboy's SSR 2.5, Meg's #83, and perhaps Optimum Compound, just to name a few.



Below is a thread that lists compounds, polishes and glazes sorted by cutting ability. It is a bit dated and some of the newer stuff isn't listed, but it is a pretty decent guide:



http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-...ing-additions-corrections-abrasives-list.html



Edit: Accumulator beat me to the punch while I was looking up links, but I knew he would also say go with the RC ;)
 
I'll see if I can find some 3M Perfect It III Rubbing compound #05933 ! This is starting to sound like "Raiders of the Lost Arc" remake, LOL! NO GALLONS!



Will I experience any problems using the RC 05933 in "Just" the rough areas and polishing out the whole vehicle with the MG 05937 ?? Anything I should be aware of?

Thanks Guys, Changeling
 
Forgot to ask, what kind of pad with the RC 05933, I would think this would use a cutting type pad, but I don't like to assume anything.

Change
 
Changeling said:
I'll see if I can find some 3M Perfect It III Rubbing compound #05933 ! This is starting to sound like "Raiders of the Lost Arc" remake, LOL! NO GALLONS!



Will I experience any problems using the RC 05933 in "Just" the rough areas and polishing out the whole vehicle with the MG 05937 ?? Anything I should be aware of?

Thanks Guys, Changeling
Click to expand...



Heh heh, yeah, just get a quart. You oughta be able to find some someplace.



Yeah, you can use it where needed; it shouldn't make those areas stand out so much that the MG won't even it all out.



Use the RC until things look about as nice as you want them to, it's not like it leaves awful micromarring or anything. When it's looking very nice, *that* is the time to switch to the MG. I sure wouldn't be surprised if you end up using both products on the whole thing, I probably would (and I'm saying that without a clear knowledge of what you're dealing with).



Same caveats: keep it off black trim, don't overwork it, don't use too much. One additional one though- be more careful about how long you work it. While not working it dry, you still gotta work it until the abrasives break down, this is more important than with the MG. There's a "sweet spot" in the work time right before it dries out and you oughta be able to find that point with just a little experience (this is *not* a finicky product IMO which is one of the reasons some of us still like the stuff).



Note that the 05933 isn't the most aggressive stuff in the world either. IMO if you can't get flaws out with it you oughta plan on living with them as the next step up would be bordering on using a rotary. There's only so much you can do depending on the vehicle's starting condition, and this gets back to my reservations about using the Klasse twins on everything (OK, I'll drop that now ;) ).



Again, I strongly encourage you to work one area (first with the RC then with the MG) and inspect it to death to make sure things are going OK. Far too often, somebody does the whole vehicle and *then* realizes that something went awry and they're faced with a monumental challenge. NO need for that. I don't expect anything to go wrong, but if you need to fine-tune something it's easier to fix one panel than it is to fix the whole vehicle.
 
Accumulator said:
Changeling- I could always beat my old 3M PI-III drum again and say to track down some PI-III Rubbing Compound 05933 :D That's what I've typically use before the PI-III MG and yeah, it's fairly gentle (don't let the name scare you) and it works fine by PC/hand.



Now that I have that out of my system, you could also check out the Hi-Temp line at Top of the Line Auto Detailing Supplies . Their Heavy Cut Leveler (AKA "357") comes to mind.
Click to expand...



P-III was some good stuff. I still have a gallon and some quarts in my basement. I used to go through it by the gallon when I still had the business. I only used it via rotary, never on the DA. I know my local supplier still has both sizes on the shelf. Both the counter people and their main customers say the P3000 is :down . I've yet to try any of it. They told me it took any downfalls from P-III and made them worse. I can't see 3M making a bad product. Was it all VOC issues, or did they change how it works and people didn't adapt?



On 357 Magnum, the only time I sampled it was in the late 90s. It wasn't anything too aggressive, but it did seem to dust less than 3M Perfect-It II Rubbing Compound. Had a friend who used 357 at his shop. He liked how it finished a bit nicer, but he said the remaining marks were harder to remove using Perfect-It Foam Pad Polish Glaze.
 
Lots of room for thought, I emailed "Top of the line" and asked questions about the 3M- 05937 and Hi-Temp (357) Heavy cut compatibility, final workout. I'll let you know.



Question: Will the PC7224 , break down the 05933, or the Hi-Temp "357", with what grade of pad, Heavy Cut, Mild Cut, polishing ?



Some, think it takes a rotary to properly break it down correctly, is this true?

Changeling
 
PRB- I always figured the PI-III stuff was discontinued over VOC issues but I don't know for sure.



Changeling- Gotta be a little careful with cutting pads, but yeah, you can use them with the 05933. If you get a *lot* of hazing/micromarring you might oughta use the 05933 again with a polishing pad before switching to the PI-III MG. I'm leaning towards orange "light cut" pads more and more (as opposed to the yellow cutting pads), especially in the 4" size but again, you gotta be careful with aggressive measures because, well, they're aggressive.



I've used the 357-then-PI-III MG combo and it worked OK but I haven't used it enough to know if it's something I'd always recommend. I dunno...I never did a direct comparison between the 05933 and the 357...my recommendation of 05933 is certainly colored by my far greater experience with that product.



If you don't hear back from TOL try giving them a call (I bet they'll respond better to a phone call than to e-mail). They probably won't say much about the PI-III stuff but they'll have plenty to say about anything Hi-Temp makes.



The 05933 *WILL* break down fine by PC/DA/ even by hand. I'll come right out and say that anybody who says 05933 requires a rotary either a) hasn't used it very much (at least not by PC/hand), b) hasn't used it properly (by PC/hand), or c) has an agenda. I've used it by hand countless times on everything from soft single-stage lacquer to *hard* clearcoats. How nicely it finishes out will depend on a lot of things, including/especially the paint, but it *can* be used with non-rotary methods.



The PC with a 4" pad seemed to break down the 357 just fine (even breaks down Hi-Temp's *Extreme Cut* leveler!), but I haven't tried it with larger pads and I've yet to try it by hand. Sorry, just no first-hand experience to draw on.
 
Accumulator, thanks for the reply. Right now I'm going to stick with the 5 inch backing plate and 6/6.5 inch pads, probably the new LC CCS pads. I intend to take your and John's advice and try to find the RC 05933 locally before I get it on line.

As for TOTL, It's just nice to get as much information as possible.



What you and John say makes sense, I would think that 3M designed the RC 05933 to be used in conjunction/aid to getting a final finish with the MG 05937. Of course it is always better to never assume anything, you and John's experience tells me I'm not!

Changeling
 
Changeling- That's one safe assumption to make ;) The 05933-to-05937/8 progression is time-tested and it flat-out works.



With the 6.5" pads, don't be too disappointed if the going is pretty slow even with the 05933. Remember that "pros/cons of aggressive/mild products" thing ;) and just let it take as long as it takes (or as long as you're willing to spend) and also remember that literal perfection is mighty elusive.
 
I am not worried about "literal", perfection, I just need you to guide me through the products and try to avoid any aspects of the different products that may cause me great unpleasantness, literal perfection is actually up to me, if I have my stuff/knowledge together, there shouldn't be a problem ! Your advise has been superlative (hopefully), I appreciate, and respect your experience, not worried at all with you in my corner!

Changeling
 
Accumulator said:
Changeling- That's one safe assumption to make ;) The 05933-to-05937/8 progression is time-tested and it flat-out works.



With the 6.5" pads, don't be too disappointed if the going is pretty slow even with the 05933. Remember that "pros/cons of aggressive/mild products" thing ;) and just let it take as long as it takes (or as long as you're willing to spend) and also remember that literal perfection is mighty elusive.
Click to expand...





Are the videos that this site and others show about how it's supposed to go, about right, give or take?



Changeling
 
Changeling said:
Are the videos that this site and others show about how it's supposed to go, about right, give or take?
Click to expand...



Sorry, can't say as I've never watched them :nixweiss



They *oughta* be OK as I can't imagine anybody putting that much effort into it without getting it right...it really is *that* intuitively obvious once you've a) given it some (informed ;) ) thought and b) done it for a (very) little while. IMO the problems/confusion/etc. come from people either not thinking things through or using products that, for whatever reason, just don't work for them (and I'm *not* a fan of struggling to "master" a product, what with all the different choices out there), or maybe from having unrealistic expectations.



Watch the videos, think about what's going on, take it slow and easy, and if anything you'll be saying that the process isn't aggressive (and hence risky ;) ) enough. It's good that you're approaching this cautiously, but I'm pretty confident that it's gonna go fine.



Oh, almost forgot, here's an additional caveat: Don't turn the machine on unless the pad is in contact with the panel or you'll spray polish everywhere.
 
Accumulator said:
Sorry, can't say as I've never watched them :nixweiss



"They *oughta* be OK as I can't imagine anybody putting that much effort into it without getting it right...it really is *that* intuitively obvious once you've a) given it some (informed ;) ) thought and b) done it for a (very) little while. IMO the problems/confusion/etc. come from people either not thinking things through or using products that, for whatever reason, just don't work for them (and I'm *not* a fan of struggling to "master" a product, what with all the different choices out there), or maybe from having unrealistic expectations."



Why do you think I'm going an extra mile with you, as I have said before, "Experience is 8/10's of most equations". When I tackle any project, I try to think it through in my "mind", just like I am actually doing it. You would be suprised what this technique teaches you. I guess you could call it sort of controlling it mentally, before tackling it manually. If you have it "upstairs", the "downstairs" comes rather easily. How I learnt this technique is a long story in itself, but it has served me very well in life.



"Watch the videos, think about what's going on, take it slow and easy, and if anything you'll be saying that the process isn't aggressive (and hence risky ;) ) enough. It's good that you're approaching this cautiously, but I'm pretty confident that it's gonna go fine."



I have already reached that conclusion. With experience in one corner and the "right" products in the other, you would have to be a complete "donky" not to get it right.



"Oh, almost forgot, here's an additional caveat: Don't turn the machine on unless the pad is in contact with the panel or you'll spray polish everywhere.
Click to expand...
"



This is the little type things I need to know. :heelclick
 
Changeling- It's nice to run into somebody who puts a lot of thought into stuff *before* trying to do it; your method of approaching this stuff (and apparently many other endeavors too) is a big part of why I'm enjoying these exchanges. "Less doing, more *thinking*" or at least considering the thinking to be a *form* of doing....it's refreshing compared to people who jump in unprepared and then ask how to fix whatever damage they've inflicted :xyxthumbs



Between this thread and the other one, I *think* we've covered just about everything, including some pretty unlikely stuff.



You're right, so much of it *is* experience, and I think you're at the point where developing that experience is the next step.



See if you can find a quart of 05933 locally, if not maybe I can round one up.
 
Accumulator said:
Changeling- That's one safe assumption to make ;) The 05933-to-05937/8 progression is time-tested and it flat-out works.



With the 6.5" pads, don't be too disappointed if the going is pretty slow even with the 05933. Remember that "pros/cons of aggressive/mild products" thing ;) and just let it take as long as it takes (or as long as you're willing to spend) and also remember that literal perfection is mighty elusive.
Click to expand...



I think I am starting to see when something is on your mind ! You mention that if things are slow with the 6.5" pads, don't be discouraged. I have talked to you enough to know that something else is on your mind! I don't have the pads yet, haven't even ordered. I have a 5 " backing plate to put on the PC 7424 only.

By going slow with the 6.5 inch pads, are you implying I could possibly be better off with smaller pads/backing plate to increase rotation speed?

Please explain? Now is the time before I buy. I know somethings on your mind.

Changeling
 
Changeling said:
I think I am starting to see when something is on your mind ! You mention that if things are slow with the 6.5" pads, don't be discouraged...I don't have the pads yet, haven't even ordered. I have a 5 " backing plate to put on the PC 7424 only.

By going slow with the 6.5 inch pads, are you implying I could possibly be better off with smaller pads/backing plate to increase rotation speed?
Click to expand...



Heh heh, very perceptive :xyxthumbs



The smaller (4") pads make for more aggressive correction, presumably because there is less friction (from the smaller surface area). This keeps the PC from "bogging down and merely jiggling" when pressure is applied. You *do* have to be a little careful with them, more aggressive = less idiot-proof, but they're what I use for actual *correction* via PC. The larger pads are fine once you get the more serious marring out but in *my* experience they're just too gentle for removing significant problems. It will all depend on your paint though...



Best approach IMO: 4" orange light cut pads for serious correction, 4" polishing pads or 6.5" polishing pads for follow-up (which one will depend on the paint). You can even do some pretty serious work with 4" polishing pads; the one and only time I ever damaged a clearcoat with a PC was when I was using a 4" Cyclo green polishing pad with 05933 (I *was* being very aggressive, it's not a combo you need to be leery of if you apply more common sense than I did, which wasn't much :o ).
 
Accumulator said:
Heh heh, very perceptive :xyxthumbs



The smaller (4") pads make for more aggressive correction, presumably because there is less friction (from the smaller surface area). This keeps the PC from "bogging down and merely jiggling" when pressure is applied. You *do* have to be a little careful with them, more aggressive = less idiot-proof, but they're what I use for actual *correction* via PC. The larger pads are fine once you get the more serious marring out but in *my* experience they're just too gentle for removing significant problems. It will all depend on your paint though...



Best approach IMO: 4" orange light cut pads for serious correction, 4" polishing pads or 6.5" polishing pads for follow-up (which one will depend on the paint). You can even do some pretty serious work with 4" polishing pads; the one and only time I ever damaged a clearcoat with a PC was when I was using a 4" Cyclo green polishing pad with 05933 (I *was* being very aggressive, it's not a combo you need to be leery of if you apply more common sense than I did, which wasn't much :o ).
Click to expand...



I understand exactly what you are saying now. I will still go with the 6" pads to see how things come out, but now I know if I am on the verge of something I can't do with them I can drop down to the 5" pads and backing plate .

I think I told you but don't remember, I am using the 5 " backing plate with the 6 inch LC pads with the #6 plate counterweight.

Stop me now are forever hold your tongue. :thx

Changeling
 
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