Adrenal Response Conditioning vs. Officer-involved Shootings and Police Training

[Accumulator]

... Don't mess with cops, don't fight with cops, don't try to grab a cops gun, don't get smart or yell at cops, and don't run away from them - then you [hopefully] won't have to worry about being shot...

And train your dog(s) to be LEO-friendly. Too many dogs without specific training in this area will 1) encounter LEOs in high-stress situations (e.g., traffic stop) where the dog will key off its handler's adrenaline dump and the LEO's reasonable concern about an unfamiliar dog, and/or 2) see a uniform and think "time to go after the UPS man!" It can end badly.

Accumulatorette got pulled over (for a pretty egregious speeding violation) with a serious dog unrestrained in her vehicle, and everybody was glad that she and the dog both had the proper training and behaved properly. What could've easily gone sideways ended with just a written warning and compliments on the "great dog you got there".

 

[Trouble]

If I ran across someone with a brake lite out I would pull up beside them, motion to roll down the window and give a verbal warning

A little common courtesy would go along way with the public

 

[tropicsteve]

If I ran across someone with a brake lite out I would pull up beside them, motion to roll down the window and give a verbal warning

A little common courtesy would go along way with the public

unbeknownst to you, that person had just committed an armed robbery, points his gun at you and blows what little brains you have all over the inside of your car. but at least you were polite. brilliant.:horse:

 

[Trouble]

unbeknownst to you, that person had just committed an armed robbery, points his gun at you and blows what little brains you have all over the inside of your car. but at least you were polite. brilliant.:horse:

OR he's just a guy trying to avoid going to jail for child support payments



I sure am glad my last stupid decision didn't cost me 8 in the back


:swirly:

 

[The Driver]

OR he's just a guy trying to avoid going to jail for child support payments



I sure am glad my last stupid decision didn't cost me 8 in the back


:swirly:

That right there! Is exactly the mentality that sets back the clock between law enforcement and the public. Making one bad action into a generalization. That cop was bad, not a doubt in my mind and deserves his fate (a very horrible one). That said I have friends who are law enforcement and would NEVER do something so vile and wrong.

 

[ec90]

Right, some stress is good once the skillset is established. IME it's a matter of the *degree* of stress.

In my case, under *extreme* stress, real fear-for-life situations, varous necessary skills were just too compromised prior to the Conditioning, so I had to get that sorted out.

It's also dependent on the response required. Higher stress and heart rates drastically affect motor function. Grossman's Physiological Response to Stress is a fantastic paper I recommend.

unbeknownst to you, that person had just committed an armed robbery, points his gun at you and blows what little brains you have all over the inside of your car. but at least you were polite. brilliant.:horse:

If you honestly want a fear being a traffic police officer you have nothing more afraid of than being behind the wheel.

 

[Bunky]

That right there! Is exactly the mentality that sets back the clock between law enforcement and the public. Making one bad action into a generalization. That cop was bad, not a doubt in my mind and deserves his fate (a very horrible one). That said I have friends who are law enforcement and would NEVER do something so vile and wrong.

It is not just one bad act. This has been going on since time began and as my earlier point is the small number that should not be cops are not often identified by fellow officers.

 

[Accumulator]

.. Higher stress and heart rates drastically affect motor function. Grossman's Physiological Response to Stress is a fantastic paper I recommend...

Yes indeed.

And yeah#2 Colonel Grossman's work is (all) must-read stuff. Too bad he was sorta a lone voice crying in the wilderness, never got as much attention/acceptance as he should have IMO and now people are all "who woulda thunk it!?!" about so much of what he said back then.

 

[Dogfather]

Non-compliance is hazardous to one's health.
It's really not that complicated.
There's no hope for anyone who hasn't figured that out by now.

 

[Junebug]

I have had a few stops by police over the years - mostly when I was young and had a lead foot, but every one was justified. I did something wrong or stupid or both and got caught. I was polite each time and admitted my mistake, apologized and asked for a second chance. I got a few warnings and yeah - a few tickets too. If you think about it, if you follow my example, what's the worse that could happen? You get a ticket, or maybe a trip down to see the judge. I watch "World's Dumbest" and yeah, the drunks are stupid but to me, the ones that aren't drunk but throw a 4 year old temper tantrum are the worst! We as a society need to teach personal responsibility. You messed up, deal with it. It's not because your mommy loved your brother more than you or dad didn't take you fishing. We have got to quit inventing excuses for not taking responsibility for our actions.
Quick story - good friend of mine went through Highway Patrol training and his first - first day - on the job, pulled a Mercedes over for 80 in a 45, and had every intention of giving the lady a warning to slow down. Guess what? When he reached her window, she shoved her license/registration at him and said, "write the damn ticket". He said yes ma'am and did so...

 

[Accumulator]

Read about another incident today- IIRC it was an 71 YO aux. LEO (no, I'm not being ageist here, or at least I don't think I am..), he shot a guy with his sidearm which he claims he thought was his Taser. I actually believe him and no I don't think he's senile. Mistakes happen under stress and some Tasers are pretty firearm-like.

And after the shooting, the full-time LEO he was with said things (on-record) that I bet he wishes he could take back. People say [stuff] under stress and it's usually another mistake.

 

[Accumulator]

I have had a few stops by police over the years...what's the worse that could happen?...

[Disclaimer- I agree with you.]

That said:

Well, if you get a reckless op (and certain speed/violations make that automatic), the worst will be that you get taken into custody and your vehicle gets towed (by non-autopians) and put in the impound lot (where all sorts of stuff could happen to it). Getting [any of my vehicles] towed and impounded...Heaven Forbid!

I only mention this because it's really easy to do triple-digits in today's cars (let alone motorcycles!), and some car/motorcycle-guys who think they're All That might not give the consequences proper consideration.

 

[Ronkh]

Read about another incident today- IIRC it was an 71 YO aux. LEO (no, I'm not being ageist here, or at least I don't think I am..), he shot a guy with his sidearm which he claims he thought was his Taser. I actually believe him and no I don't think he's senile. Mistakes happen under stress and some Tasers are pretty firearm-like.

Lawyer: Tulsa reserve deputy turns himself in - AOL.com



A video of the incident recorded by a deputy with a sunglass camera and released Friday shows a deputy chase a tackle Harris, who authorities said tried to sell an illegal gun to an undercover officer.

A gunshot rang out as the deputy wrestled with Harris on the ground and a man says: "Oh, I shot him. I'm sorry."

Harris was treated by medics at the scene and died at an area hospital.

Andre Harris, the victim's brother, said he does not believe the shooting was racially motivated. Bates is white and Harris is black.

Tulsa Police Sgt. Jim Clark, who investigated the shooting as an independent consultant at the request of the sheriff's office, concluded that Bates had been so engrossed in the stress of the moment that he did not think clearly about what he had in his hand.

 

[Accumulator]

Ronkh- Yeah, and I got a few details wrong (I believe the shooter was 73 YO).

Perfect, if unfortunate, example(s) of exactly what we're discussing on this thread.

 

[Ronkh]

So peoples take on the AZ cop who took out the guy with his cruiser?

 

[Bunky]

I guess the police did not have confidence in shooting him but the cruiser approach may have had other unintended consequences - did he know was behind the wall that was taken out?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

So peoples take on the AZ cop who took out the guy with his cruiser?

Eh, Jersey driver (cop was originally from NJ).

It was certainly a creative solution to the problem. Wonder if he got in trouble for wrecking the car? I saw the chief was pleased with how it turned out (no hurt cops, no victims, perp lived).

 

[Pats300zx]

So peoples take on the AZ cop who took out the guy with his cruiser?

Not something I would have personally done. However, the subject was walking through a neighbor with a stolen .30-.30 on his shoulder. He had already fired shots in the neighborhood and had stolen the gun from Walmart.

I wouldn't want to have a firefight against that weapon in a crowded neighborhood.

 

[The Driver]

so peoples take on the az cop who took out the guy with his cruiser?

​S t r i k e !

Full video, https://youtu.be/DFcEMMZju7U

An Yea, anyone threatening to kill them selves after committing felony with a firearm an then discharging that weapon in front of an officer in a threatening manner should consider themselves lucky to be breathing at this point. A+ to the officer!

Oh Yea, almost forgot... That'll buff out

 

[Accumulator]

So peoples take on the AZ cop who took out the guy with his cruiser?

Good move IMO, but hey...I wasn't there. Quick thinking, decisive action executed skillfully. Hit him just right, which isn't as easy as one might think.