800rpm's and holograms

joyriide1113

joyriide1113

There is no cure!
1500rpms is what ive been doing lately to remove swirls and following it up with the pc on speed 6 with a polishing pad. works well but definately a hassle to have to switch machines. i was wondering if 800rpms or maybe even 600rpms with a polishing pad and a light polish strong enough to remove holograms without giving new ones.
 
Lower speeds like that just lower the effectiveness of the machine. Most good polishes were designed to work in the 1000-1250 rpm range and should be worked there. Just practice keeping your rotary level and you should start to get better results.
 
I'm definitely not a rotary master (not even a beginner too :D), but even Anthony Orosco suggested not to go below 1000 (or even 1200) rpm. As I recall, a GSRstilez keeps the rotary speed at about 1500rpm most of time.
Just my 2 cents.
 
You should polish it with the rotary since you have it, not the pc. I polish at 1800 to 2000 rpm. With a wool polishing pad. I use bc-2 polish from automagic. :mohawk
 
well most of the work i do i always use 1500rpm with a polishing pad and a med cut SMR (DP SSE). then i follow with the same thing except with a pc.

are u guys sugegsting to just use a light polish with the rotory? i just get the feeling im going to keep getting holograms.
 
It varies by car.
If you try a finish pad and something like FPII at 1200rpm and get holograms then a PC will be needed.
 
i just dont wanna think i took holograms out with the rotory and realise i put some in. no biggy tho. ill stick to using the pc for dark colors.
 
FPII @ 1500 rpm using a green pad flat on the surface as possible usually produces hologram free results that are truely amazing. The same methodolgy using Optimum produces equally good results.

JJ
 
Joyride,

I understand your frustration. First off understand that pad angles are not the main cause of swirls nor is the leading edge the main cause but rather it is the pad/product choice. A wool pad will always leave swirls or better "micro-scratches", because of the aggressive nature of the pad itself. If you have a very mild polish and use a wool pad with it the swirls will be there but perhaps not as bad as if you were to use a cutting product.

Same is true if you use a super soft foam pad with a cutting product, the swirls would be light but still an eyesore. They key then is to use the least abrasive pad/product combo to get the paint leveled. Then finish with the finest pad/product combo you have. One can get very close to a swirl free finish on black with a rotary if they follow the rule of "the finer the pad and product the fewer the swirls". Some new materials are coming out soon that combine microfiber with wool, the goal being to cut like wool but finish out with fewer swirls and little to no linting.

As for speeds, you should never have to go over 1750 rpm's on modern paints. I use 1500 for leveling, 1200 to 1400 for swirl removal and for finish work also but I also like to burnish the paint every so often with a high speed, like around 1700 to 1800 rpm's, especially on single stage. Keep the paint warm to the touch, your rotary level with your shoulders and to help control the "hops" don't over extend your reach.
 
I'm not saying that it is impossible, but very rarely can a detailer leave a 100% swirl-free finish by using a rotary polisher. The rotary isn't for finsihing it is for compounding, cutting and removing imperfections from paint.

I always like to finish the job with a Porter Cable dual action polisher. The dual action is what you need to take out hologams. Modern clearcoats are very soft in most cases and the circular or spinning action of the rotary polisher is what puts the holograms in the paint.

Yes, a rotary buffer can make short work of scratches, deep swirls and oxidation that a dual action polisher cannot touch, but there comes a time when you have removed most of the imperfections from the paint and then need to finesse and polish out what is commonly known as buffer swirls or holograms.

If you are finding holgrams after high speed polishing, don't lower your speed. Grab a Porter Cable dual action polisher, turn the speed up and finish the job swirl and hologram free dudes!

It's just like polishing a fine diamond!
 
GOod Advice Fuzz. What do you reccomend for a final polish or one to remove holograms via pc?

Greg
 
The Fuzz said:
I'm not saying that it is impossible, but very rarely can a detailer leave a 100% swirl-free finish by using a rotary polisher. The rotary isn't for finsihing it is for compounding, cutting and removing imperfections from paint.
Click to expand...

I will agree with you fuzz it is hard sometimes to get it perfect with a rotary but it is not impossible. Its not ment for finishing like you say. BUT if you have a lot of experince with one you can use it for finishing. I've got years of hands on with a rotary so getting a car looking like glass without swirl/marring is a peice of cake for me.
 
The Fuzz said:
I'm not saying that it is impossible, but very rarely can a detailer leave a 100% swirl-free finish by using a rotary polisher. The rotary isn't for finsihing it is for compounding, cutting and removing imperfections from paint.

I always like to finish the job with a Porter Cable dual action polisher. The dual action is what you need to take out hologams. Modern clearcoats are very soft in most cases and the circular or spinning action of the rotary polisher is what puts the holograms in the paint.

Yes, a rotary buffer can make short work of scratches, deep swirls and oxidation that a dual action polisher cannot touch, but there comes a time when you have removed most of the imperfections from the paint and then need to finesse and polish out what is commonly known as buffer swirls or holograms.

If you are finding holgrams after high speed polishing, don't lower your speed. Grab a Porter Cable dual action polisher, turn the speed up and finish the job swirl and hologram free dudes!

It's just like polishing a fine diamond!
Click to expand...

Alot of products on the market work great with the PC to remove the final swirls/holograms.

Poorboys SSR's, Four Star Swirl Mark Remover and Menzerna Final Polish II are some of my favorites for removing swirls/holograms.
 
The rotary can be used for finishing and it is not the circular spinning that causes the halograms. It is ones pad and product selection.
 
Bell said:
The rotary can be used for finishing and it is not the circular spinning that causes the halograms. It is ones pad and product selection.
Click to expand...


so lets say i polish with ssr2.5 and a polishing pad. would following it with ssr1 and a finsihing pad on 1200rpms be good enough to remove without inflicting swirls? (assuming id keep the pad flat and moving)
 
joyriide1113 said:
so lets say i polish with ssr2.5 and a polishing pad. would following it with ssr1 and a finsihing pad on 1200rpms be good enough to remove without inflicting swirls? (assuming id keep the pad flat and moving)
Click to expand...

Your best bet is to get a finishing pad rated at 100 ppi. The LC finishing pad is around 98 I believe. SSR1 is a nice finishing product but you may get better results with FPII and a 100 ppi pad. Try Optimum's white pad, I also believe Sonus has a 100ppi finishing pad.

This takes practice but you should be able to remove and not introduce more swirls. Keep rpm's between 1200 and 1000, make sure the pad is clean, no rough edges and if any swirls are introduced then a quick pass with the finishing pad and your PC is all you need. Now if you are doing this on customer cars then I siggest following up with your PC (on dark colors only most likely) but if this is your personal car then take the time to practice on producing a swirl free finish. On a clients car it's just not worth it, time and money wise.
 
Bell said:
The rotary can be used for finishing and it is not the circular spinning that causes the halograms. It is ones pad and product selection.
Click to expand...

Without the spinning, the pad and product will do nothing. To say that the holograms are not caused by the spinning action is not entirely correct. Sure, you can use an old wool pad and a very abrasive compound and get much more paint damage or you can use a soft finishing foam and limit the amount of holograms but the spinning is what causes the holograms. That is why Fuzz recommended the dual action PC. Finishing and polishing with the dual action polisher is the perfect solution to holograms or buffer swirls.

Here are a few questions the detailer should ask themselves...

Why try finessing swirls and holograms out of paint with more heat and cutting than you have too? Why use a machine that, in the wrong hands, can cause damage. Why not use a machine that is much more idiot proof and can polish paint without the risk of burning through or leaving behind holograms and swirls?

The rotary polisher has it's place, but the PC dual action polisher is very popular for a very good reason.
 
Why try finessing swirls and holograms out of paint with more heat and cutting than you have too? Why use a machine that, in the wrong hands, can cause damage. Why not use a machine that is much more idiot proof and can polish paint without the risk of burning through or leaving behind holograms and swirls?
Click to expand...

Very wise words.
 
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