$300 In An Hour

[Todd@RUPES]

I have been detailing a good number of years. I have always sought to be the best, to reach a high level in my chosen craft. I wanted my name out there, to have respect from my clients and also those within my craft.

And for what, to have a bunch of people who do this once a month tell you what you are doing wrong. The praise is nice, but as you reach the top, people want to tear you down.

I struggled over every little detail of my details. I sought to create perfection. Spending hours polishing panels, sometimes days. I would Q-tip every nook and cranny inside and out. I did this to such a degree that I could never trust anyone else to do the same job. This may sound cocky but it's not my meaning or intention, it's just that it's very difficult to trust someone to do the same level of detailing that I do and perform it with the same passion.

Doesn't sound cocky to me. I am in the same boat. Stress over everything, it is almost like an addiction. Ryan, Brian (vasupershine), and myself know what it is like to polish a panel for days, but most people (even on this forum) will never understand the difference. I mean a PC and some polish will fill everything in nicely, and that is the advantage of doing this on the side, they don't have frequent follow ups and will never know....

No one really wants to work anymore these days. They want a paycheck but I find little passion for a craft out there among Americas young work force. If I hire someone they see it only as a job, they have nothing personal invested in the job. They did not work their tails off getting the clients, it's not their literal blood, sweat and tears which built up mine/your business.

Amen brother Anthony.

Sure I could hire some people but then I would have to deal with all kinds of added headaches like people calling in sick when a huge day has been planned. Theft of clients stuff, them stealing from me and the worst, damage to a vehicle.

That is what makes high end detailing so difficult and why it is so easy to burn out. You are soley responsible, there is no paycheck guarenteed and you cannot count on anybody. For a while a thought I was so clever and good, doing high end cars (and making good money) but the truth is that the smart guys are the ones who own production shops or car washes. It's not because I am magically better then the next guy, its because the next guy is smarter then I am.

So one day, not so long ago, it came to me that I have no passion for this anymore. I've done it all, there is no challenge any longer. I see all these young guys come on these forums and talk about how they spend hours doing this and that, they spend oodles of money on all these products and feel satisfied making $150.00 for 12 hours of work. They post pictures up and sit back and wait for others to view and praise their work.

It is almost like dating a girl. Passion and fun, but once the passion fades (it will to a degree) what is left. For me it has changed from passion to OCD, which is better for my clients. Too many times I have spent way too much time doing write-ups and ignoring important things, so some people can judge my work. And the more work you post (that is higher quality and done correctly) the more people look for a reason to hate.

How do I know this? Because I once posted for that reason. I then realized that I was counting more on the accolades of others and their opinions were even more important than making money, hence my family suffered because I spent far too many working hours on a car and not being properly compensated for that work, I charged $300 for a detail and I spent 16 hours doing it. I lost money, I didn't make any money. This caused a fatal burn out for me and I'm not sure I'll ever detail like that again. I no longer detail for the passion but now I detail for the profit.

Again I understand what you are saying completely.I am extremely lucky to have a client base that pays for my time so I haven't "lost" money but again, I cannot help but think that there is a better way then this.

So all you who seek the accolades of others and that's the sole purpose of your work then be prepared for a rude awakening because those accolades can't be taken to the bank. They don't pay bills.

And if they do pay the bills, they still don't mean much. The respect of your clients is most important. And even more important is the respect of your family and the time you spend with them (vs on the internet reading my threads, waiting for responses like I do )

This is the purpose of my use of this coating. I no longer want to work 8 hours for a few hundred bucks when I can work half that time and make the same or perhaps more. Will it work out that way? I have no idea but I'll never know if I don't try. I detail now for me and my family, not anyone else.



Anthony"

Best of luck!!!



Preach on brother Anthony. Seriously, I can understand and feel your post to such a degree and glad you posted that. Very nice post (that a lot of people might not understand).

 

[Scottwax]

I must have to say Anthony, that this post was as much of the truth as I have ever read on here. Last year I was in the same boat until I went up on my prices. But now I am working 50 times more and really killing myself. Detailing is one thing, but polishing for passion is a very bad disease.



I know exactly what you are talking about.



I wish you all the best of Luck!!!!!

Same here. I took the "under promise and over deliver" idea to the extreme too often. I ended up wasting a lot of time and effort for not too much money, and to be quite honest, most customer's didn't appreciate or notice the extra effort the way we autopians do. Now when I do a basic detail, that's what they get. Their car looks substantially better and is well protected but I'm not chasing every defect for a basic detail price. I make them aware that I do full corrections and what they cost. The market for full correction details is limited though. Just not enough people really care about their paint being as close to perfect as possible. Lets be frank, you correct a car to 90% and to most people, it looks perfect and a hell of a lot better than their neighbor's car does.



Like Ron said, we need to work smarter, not harder. I don't do it because of age (47) because physically, I can more than handle workload and still go out and ride 32 miles at a 19 mph pace when it is still 100 in the early evening. But, I have two kids in college now who I'd like to be able to help as much as possible so they aren't saddles with huge student loans debts. Plus, it just makes good business sense to maximize my efforts where they will make me the most money.



Will the new Optimum coating help me in my business? I still don't know. I will be asking my customers if such a product interests them and if they are willing to pay a premium price for such a service. Obviously, even though I trust Anthony's and the good Doctor's judgement, I'd still want to put the product through some testing of my own before charging a high price for its application.

 

[ABQDetailer]

I'm new here. Just a hobbiest.



I'm interested in any product like this that makes my life easier.



Reading through the last 10 pages has been quite dissapointing to say the least. I don't understand what is trying to be accomplished here without a concrete explanation of what this product is actually doing, what the product is going to cost, and when it is going to be avaliable. If you just wanted to hype it up you accomplished that; whether it's negative or positive hype will only be answered when this product is avaliable to the public and/or when more concrete testing can be done with documentation/pictures/video to back it up. Until then you can hype it all you want but there will be doubters/haters.



I really want to believe in this product. My wife's mini-van really needs something like this. Unfortunately actions speak louder that forum posts (so to speak).



If you really want a good test send me enough of a sample and I'll put it on the hood of my car. Nothing to this point has held up longer than a week when my car is sitting in the driveway. It's at a 35ish degree angle and it's angled towards the sunrise. It's monsoon season here. Plenty of chances for water etching, dust, and pollen from the stuipid thorn-filled-berry-desert-bush that I haven't watered for five years and won't die. I'll take pics with my DSLR every couple days or so and post a thread in the products section.



Better yet I can do 1/2 the hood with your product and the other 1/2 with KSG or M-Seal...then I can top them both with 476S. Take some pics every couple days and let the results speak for themselves...



I'll even offer to paypal cash for a USPS Flat Rate Priority Box.



Edit: Typos. :doh

 

[boywonder]

No, I just observe, no contribution needed, unless you would like more regurgitated information like so many spew on the forums.





.....NooB

Like I am observing someone whose comments are unbecoming of any member of this forum.



Enjoy your vacation!

 

[Thomas Dekany]

Like I am observing someone whose comments are unbecoming of any member of this forum.



Enjoy your vacation!

Now that is funny stuff PrinzII!!!!!!!!! :funnypost:funnypost:funnypost:funnypost:funnypost:funnypost

 

[Lumadar]

If you mean as in applying it in the sun then I would advise against that. It's best applied on a cool surface out of direct sun.







I read things like this and I wonder if people are actually reading or just posting up stuff based on emotions?



You stated:







Sir, you obviously did not read my statement in its context. You make the statement that you disagree that a car DOES NOT need to be clayed or polished. You claim that every car will need claying....."just at different intervals based on variables, x, y z etc."



Tell me please how is that any different than me stating:







I highlighted the words "depends" and "may" because I never made an absolute statement that cars NEVER need to be clayed because there are factors to always consider, such as "x,y and z".



Do you believe all I do all day is hang around and test products? My words, "not yet confirmed" does not mean it has not been tested but it has not been FULLY tested. The Sonus clay, being very mild, seemed to have little to no effect on it. Have I tested all types or grades of clay? Nope, I sure haven't.



Lastly, I again, NEVER stated that the coating will NOT take on added swirls and scratches but that it MAY......again, *MAY* help to reduce them and their severity.



I am not a scientist nor a chemist so if you want a "technical" explanation on HOW and WHY it works then call Doctor G. and ask him. It then makes me wonder if you ask for a technical explanation from everyone who posts on a product and/or seek that information from the manufacturers of all the products you use?



Anthony

LOL...talk about emotional replies?



I was not trying to attack you...I was actually trying to help you by pointing out why I felt many were skeptical. I was plainly laying out for you a path that would allow you to put all of the haters to bed.



I wasn't bashing- I wasn't calling you a liar, again, how about YOU read MY post and see how I worded it. My intent was to open your eyes to what YOUR audience is seeing.



Next time I will just keep quiet and let you continue to miss the obvious (to some).



:wavey

 

[dreamcatchr23]

As a hobbyist (becoming more and more engaged in the hobby with every passing day), I am interested if this would only be suitable for professional detailers or if it could also be applicable to end-users.



And well, having read the past 11 pages (wow.. 11 pages worth of posts in 2 days!?!?!?), I am keeping an open mind based on the quality of Optimum's products (ONR is the greatest thing since sliced bread!!!!) and the OP's reputation...

 

[David Fermani]

Ron and I went out this afternoon to apply the new Optimum coating on a new BMW M3.



We started at 1:54 PM, we rinsed off the wheels, No Rinsed the paint, vacuumed, wiped down the leather, conditioned it, glass cleaned then applied the new Optimum Coating to the entire paint, lenses, jams and wheels.



We finished at 3:05 and billed my client for $300.00



We have another one scheduled for tomorrow plus one more maybe on Wednesday.



Hell of a lot easier than buffing all darn day!!

Anthony

Focusing back to the subject at hand……I think this could truly be a revolutionary product, that if properly marketed to new car dealers, could create a modest amount of profit for very little effort. I personally can see dealers eating this product/service up if geared properly. If you could operate efficiently, there’s no way at least 3-4 of these treatments couldn’t be done daily, on location, at multiple dealers, by 1 person. Even if this could be done for $200 each, I’d rather earn up to $800-$1000 per day doing a simple new car prep with a 10 minute WOWA treatment than slaving over a trashed car for a fraction of the profit.



If this product can hold up to its perceived claim of longevity and can be purchased economically enough (i.e. product and warranty cost) that it can be competitive priced in line with the current offerings already in place at dealers, it would be the hands down favorite in my mind. Is there a fabric protection product counterpart that can be cross marketed with this paint protection system?



After 10 years of getting seriously burnt out operating a high volume detail shop doing 25-35 full dealer details 6 days a week, I sold my business in hope to start up a new business doing Rust, Paint & Fabric protection. I knew it would be a whole lot easier training a workforce with zero talent/experience to do these applications than teaching reconditioning to them. I had both sales and financial backing from a major protection company in the region and was ready to move forward with my business plan. After my contract ended with the new owner of my detail business, I did consulting work for 1 of the dealers that wanted to open up a state of the art recon facility. This gave me more reinforcement on how much of a royal PITA dealers can be to do business with and I later changed my mind and took on a corporate career instead of going towards my dream. I’m still kicking myself everyday second guessing my decision of not opening up the protection business (and ultimately selling my business). I’d love a second chance to tap back into the market place I once dreamed of conquering! Maybe this product can fill the void that existed in both me and the industry? I'm excited about this product and haven't even tried it yet!! Matter of fact, I've never used any Optimum products.

 

[imported_Picus]

FWIW, one of my good friends is the business manager at a local BMW dealership. He came by last night to have a bird stain buffed out...so I asked him what he thought about a product like this were it to exist. We had a long talk, specifically about the fact that he already offers a "5 year sealant" on new cars, and that it is a big money maker for them, but that they get a lot of complaints about it. To make a long story short he said if a product existed that was easy to apply and did indeed last 2-3 years, he'd sell it to his customers in a heartbeat. He said the two biggest issues with the product they are using now is that it is almost always gone by 3-4 months, which is fine until you get a customer who notices and that a good portion of the people who purchase it complain that they see no tangible benefit; which hopefully wouldn't be the case with this opt product.



So ya...would I use this on my regular clients cars? Maybe, maybe not...probably not very much since I regularly clay and polish out light issues with those cars and keep them sealed and waxed on a very regular basis. But as a product I can sell to a dealer, or on a new car prep package I think it'd be very good to have in my arsenal, if it works like anthony says it does.

 

[Clean Dean]

FWIW, one of my good friends is the business manager at a local BMW dealership. He came by last night to have a bird stain buffed out...so I asked him what he thought about a product like this were it to exist. We had a long talk, specifically about the fact that he already offers a "5 year sealant" on new cars, and that it is a big money maker for them, but that they get a lot of complaints about it. To make a long story short he said if a product existed that was easy to apply and did indeed last 2-3 years, he'd sell it to his customers in a heartbeat. He said the two biggest issues with the product they are using now is that it is almost always gone by 3-4 months, which is fine until you get a customer who notices and that a good portion of the people who purchase it complain that they see no tangible benefit; which hopefully wouldn't be the case with this opt product.



So ya...would I use this on my regular clients cars? Maybe, maybe not...probably not very much since I regularly clay and polish out light issues with those cars and keep them sealed and waxed on a very regular basis. But as a product I can sell to a dealer, or on a new car prep package I think it'd be very good to have in my arsenal, if it works like anthony says it does.

I believe that the problem with having a paint protection warranty for cars is that 95% of the cars in the US are not cared for up to Autopian standards. Most car owners are "too busy" to give hoot about bird droppings and other contaniments sitting on there cars regardless of the value of their car. Just walk though any parking lot and see for yourself !!! I often park in a downtown Manhattan parking garge in the financial district of NYC, and you would be amazed how many $75k+ cars are sitting in there with horribly neglected finishes. I would say 90% of the newer Benzes, BMWs, Audi, and Range Rovers there are regular automatic carwash customers (swirls, scratches and spider webbing), and most are simply filthy.



I would think that if this product was sold to dealer as a 3 year paint protection product it would soon be considered just another dealer upsell that does not work. I believe that this product could potentially have long lasting protection with proper care, but even brand new clearcoats with becomed damaged quickly with neglect (especially black cars in a hot climate). I detailed a 07 Dodge Viper last year that had severe deep water spot etching even though the car had only 3k miles on it.



I still want to try this product, and make a judgement for myself when its available.



Anthony, please keep us posted on when it is released.

 

[Anthony O.]

Focusing back to the subject at hand……I think this could truly be a revolutionary product, that if properly marketed to new car dealers, could create a modest amount of profit for very little effort. I personally can see dealers eating this product/service up if geared properly. If you could operate efficiently, there’s no way at least 3-4 of these treatments couldn’t be done daily, on location, at multiple dealers, by 1 person. Even if this could be done for $200 each, I’d rather earn up to $800-$1000 per day doing a simple new car prep with a 10 minute WOWA treatment than slaving over a trashed car for a fraction of the profit.



If this product can hold up to its perceived claim of longevity and can be purchased economically enough (i.e. product and warranty cost) that it can be competitive priced in line with the current offerings already in place at dealers, it would be the hands down favorite in my mind. Is there a fabric protection product counterpart that can be cross marketed with this paint protection system?

David,



Yes, Optimum is also taking care of the interior protector for fabric seats and carpets. It will be a complete system.



I am not totally square on price but I can say that the product will most likely be ready to go in about 2 to 3 weeks now as our last brain child in terms of application will not come to pass as it wouldn't be cost effective. So the product is now ready to go cept for legal formalities. There will be no fancy bottles or labels needed.



Doctor G. has re-thought about selling to general public and may only sell to pros. If people are interested in buying the Optimum coating they can purchase it from a local professional who can then give them a hands on demo on how it works.



I also sent you a PM David.



Anthony

 

[imported_JoshVette]

FWIW, one of my good friends is the business manager at a local BMW dealership. He came by last night to have a bird stain buffed out...so I asked him what he thought about a product like this were it to exist. We had a long talk, specifically about the fact that he already offers a "5 year sealant" on new cars, and that it is a big money maker for them, but that they get a lot of complaints about it. To make a long story short he said if a product existed that was easy to apply and did indeed last 2-3 years, he'd sell it to his customers in a heartbeat. He said the two biggest issues with the product they are using now is that it is almost always gone by 3-4 months, which is fine until you get a customer who notices and that a good portion of the people who purchase it complain that they see no tangible benefit; which hopefully wouldn't be the case with this opt product.



So ya...would I use this on my regular clients cars? Maybe, maybe not...probably not very much since I regularly clay and polish out light issues with those cars and keep them sealed and waxed on a very regular basis. But as a product I can sell to a dealer, or on a new car prep package I think it'd be very good to have in my arsenal, if it works like anthony says it does.

Great post. :xyxthumbs

 

[Anthony O.]

I believe that the problem with having a paint protection warranty for cars is that 95% of the cars in the US are not cared for up to Autopian standards. Most car owners are "too busy" to give hoot about bird droppings and other contaniments sitting on there cars regardless of the value of their car. Just walk though any parking lot and see for yourself !!! I often park in a downtown Manhattan parking garge in the financial district of NYC, and you would be amazed how many $75k+ cars are sitting in there with horribly neglected finishes. I would say 90% of the newer Benzes, BMWs, Audi, and Range Rovers there are regular automatic carwash customers (swirls, scratches and spider webbing), and most are simply filthy.



I would think that if this product was sold to dealer as a 3 year paint protection product it would soon be considered just another dealer upsell that does not work. I believe that this product could potentially have long lasting protection with proper care, but even brand new clearcoats with becomed damaged quickly with neglect (especially black cars in a hot climate). I detailed a 07 Dodge Viper last year that had severe deep water spot etching even though the car had only 3k miles on it.



I still want to try this product, and make a judgement for myself when its available.



Anthony, please keep us posted on when it is released.

I'll be sure to keep you informed.





Here is another way of looking at this type of a product. There is no written rule that says you MUST sell this as a "3 year" coating. You can tell them it will last a year and write the warranty for that year period.



I am fully confident it will last a full year and then some but the point is that you perform the paint correction and charge, say $350.00 and instead of giving them a carnauba wax or polymer you sell them on a coating treatment. You explain to them that this coating is like wax only better and permanent and since you have the warranty at a year you can be almost 100% certain that it will not deteriorate and each warranty has a "exclusion" clause which in this case would cover neglect on the car owners part.



It aids in UV protection, wax doesn't.

It bonds to your paint, wax doesn't.

Wax will evaporate, this coating will not.

Etc, etc.



You can then charge them an extra $150.00 (even if you only charge $100 it's still very profitable) to apply the coating. It takes you maybe 20-30 minutes to apply it. You can still perform weekly washes, bi-weekly or monthly washes (which I recommend, this way you can keep an eye on the coatings performance) which will decrease the marring of the finish since it will be properly washed and dried.



I am slowly putting this coating on ALL MY clients cars because it makes washing and drying so much easier.



How I sell it)



A visual demo is key. I have it on my fender and my passenger door has wax on it. I'll give my fender and door a No Rinse wash and then dry the panels. I'll then take a gallon of water and pour it over my door. The water beads up and runs down the sides and looks pretty nice. Then I take a gallon of water and pour it over my fender and the fender sheds the water right off and looks dry, with only a trace of water here and there. The person is very impressed and after they ask how much they usually agree to having it put on.



If I can I'll post up pictures of that.



Anthony

 

[imported_Picus]

I believe that the problem with having a paint protection warranty for cars is that 95% of the cars in the US are not cared for up to Autopian standards. Most car owners are "too busy" to give hoot about bird droppings and other contaniments sitting on there cars regardless of the value of their car. Just walk though any parking lot and see for yourself !!! I often park in a downtown Manhattan parking garge in the financial district of NYC, and you would be amazed how many $75k+ cars are sitting in there with horribly neglected finishes. I would say 90% of the newer Benzes, BMWs, Audi, and Range Rovers there are regular automatic carwash customers (swirls, scratches and spider webbing), and most are simply filthy.



I would think that if this product was sold to dealer as a 3 year paint protection product it would soon be considered just another dealer upsell that does not work. I believe that this product could potentially have long lasting protection with proper care, but even brand new clearcoats with becomed damaged quickly with neglect (especially black cars in a hot climate). I detailed a 07 Dodge Viper last year that had severe deep water spot etching even though the car had only 3k miles on it.



I still want to try this product, and make a judgement for myself when its available.



Anthony, please keep us posted on when it is released.

I totally know what you're saying, we talked about that at length. Clearly most car owners don't really care about their paint aside from keeping mud off of it...Toronto is a lot like NYC in the sense that there are a lot of expensive cars that would horrify most Autopians - but let's put that out of our mind for a second. What people *will* notice with a product like this is the car is easier to wash, or at least stays cleaner longer, and that water sheets/beads, which obviously isn't the case for most cars out there. If someone can go through a touchless once a week and this protection will still be there at the 2-3 year mark then I *think* people will feel like they got a decent value. With the current 5 year sealants you get beading for a few weeks if you're lucky, then there is zero tangible benefit outside a sketchy warranty.



It may be risky, but ideally you could apply the coating then give the customer your contact information and maybe a small package on caring for the car. You may never see them again, but then again you might, even if only to re-apply the coating (at full price, of course).



Anthony - the only problem I see with that demo is that a lot of sealants and waxes will sheet in a way that seems similar to the opt coating. I do understand what you're going for though.

 

[Anthony O.]

OK, I was able to snap off a few pictures before heavy rains came our way.



This is the type of demo I am speaking of. On my wifes passenger door I applied some OCW about 4 1/2 months ago. Now I am not expecting it to last that long especially because it's a daily driver and it mainly goes through touchless car washes (yeah I know, shame on me).



So in these first few pictures I poured about 2 gallons of water over her door as my wife took the pictures. The paint is dirty and has not been washed in weeks due to daily rain storms here in South Texas.

OK, pretty flat right? I mean no beading at all and yes I have taken into account the layer of dirt on the paint....BUT still carnauba just isn't holding up.





Now on my wifes fender I applied the Optimum coating about 8-9 months ago. The fender has not been washed either and I used again about 2 gallons of water and as I poured the water my wife took the pictures.

It's plain to see that at the 8 to 9 month range there is still very impressive sheeting and beading of the water. The paint sheds the water off. This is also the older version of the coating, the new coating is even more concentrated. So when up against wax the coating is the absolute winner and this easy visual demo makes an impression on potential buyers.



Anthony (Now I await for the possible conspiracy theories)

 

[Driven Auto Detail]

Very cool demo Anthony! I'd love to see pics or even a vid of that's possible.

 

[imported_DJ Mayo]

Looks great, seems this will be good for certain detailers. Any information on when this will come out and the cost?



DJ

 

[David Fermani]

After searching for this ground breaking thread for quite some time w/o luck, I decided to reach out to a moderator to have them help me with my search for it. It seems as if the prior administration (DavidB) felt threatened by this thread for several reasons and decided to move it away from public view. As an attempt to maintain the free will of this forum, the current administration ok’d moving it back so people can view how this product (thanks to Anthony Orosco) has evolved into what is now quite phenomenal. I hope everyone enjoys the read.

 

[nyakerz]

Now I have the little idea of how people reacted when Pythagoras made a bold statement.

 

[imported_animes2k]

Now I have the little idea of how people reacted when Pythagoras made a bold statement.

Honestly, it seems as if the detailing world is shifting in a lot of ways these past couple of years, even revolutionizing and reinventing itself. There will always be those that want to stick to the old ways, but this is awesome stuff.