2018 Health and Fitness Thread

The topic of Fish Oil/Omega3 supplementation is kinda complicated. And while I don`t know from Krill Oil, the various Fish Oil supplements sure do vary and getting squared away took a fair bit of research. It`s definitely not as simple as "take a few of these".
 
Workout lasted 30 minutes today for 8 sets plus two ab exercises. New split separates upper body between the two workouts, chest/back and arms/shoulders though there is a bit of crossover from there being compound movements. Dips were after my shoulder exercises and those were a real challenge, was trembling midway through the 1st rep but still managed to complete 8 reps.
 
jrock645- Sounds good!

What about doing the Dips *before* shoulders....thinking how dips are kinda "big movements" involving lots of bodyparts. I always do best doing hard/heavy/big stuff early on and smaller muscles towards the end. FWIW, I do Delts after either Chest or Back depending on which Upper Body Day it is; I focus on Medial Delts on Chest Day and Rear Delts on Back Day (never working the Front Delts independently at all).

That`s really good that you got 8 reps after the first one was so challenging! How are you doing the dips? Like...elbows out/in, body perpendicular/angled, stuff like that. Gee, I haven`t done dips since forever..must be over a year now, maybe two.

I gotta split my Upper Body Workouts up differently; just too much to do both chest and back the same day although yeah there`s always some overlap (work back, feel pecs a bit too, and vice-versa).

I`m still doing the "standard" Chest/Triceps and Back/Biceps split, alternating between them on Fridays. I`ll be very interested to hear how *your* split works for you.

Really like that you did (only) 8 sets for your workout, keeping the volume reasonable. I too add my Ab/Oblique work onto other workouts...accidentally altered the bench angle on Friday and days later I *still* really feel my lowermost abs..gee, that was one very good oops! Gotta make that the new normal.
 
Working Delts/Shoulders is something I find interesting and a bit tricky.

The Delts are one of the *VERY* few muscles that are strongest when extended and weakest when contracted; opposite of everything else I can think of with the exception of Hamstrings.

Maybe because of that (and the way gravity pulls straight down), I finally decided that Dumbbell Laterals aren`t effective for me (probably do more for my Traps than my Delts). To my great surprise, ditto for basically *ALL* of the various pressing movements that I did for so long! Yep, all those movements that guys have sworn by since forever are basically ineffective for me not matter how I do them :( Sure took me long enough to figure that out :o

Also related to the Delts` weird strength curve- Progressive/Elastic Resistance (e.g., Exercise Bands, the Soloflex, Nautilus equipment) is bass-ackwards.

What`s needed is REgressive Resistance, or at least a means of emphasizing the first part of the movement (that`s what I do).

AND starting the movement in a thoroughly stretched position (doable with a cable setup).

Doing Dumbbell Laterals one arm at a time while lying on the floor is probably the best way to work Delts with dbs but I find that awkward and that linear-gravity thing is still an issue. Still, that`s just me and it might work great for others. Note that even a pretty strong guy might need to start such a movement with *really* light weights, and I don`t mean 10lbs. The trick is to keep the effort focused on the Delts, not the back or the arms.

Tricky tricky, I`m envious of people who can do OK with the usual presses/laterals/etc. Oh man do I wish I could produce my own exercise equipment; I see a glaring absence in what`s available, several actually (Delts, Hamstrings, Hip-Belt Squat station, maybe more)...my improvised solutions are, IMO, suboptimal even if they are steps in the right direction, but I think I know just how it oughta be done.
 
Accumulator said:
jrock645- Sounds good!

What about doing the Dips *before* shoulders....thinking how dips are kinda "big movements" involving lots of bodyparts. I always do best doing hard/heavy/big stuff early on and smaller muscles towards the end. FWIW, I do Delts after either Chest or Back depending on which Upper Body Day it is; I focus on Medial Delts on Chest Day and Rear Delts on Back Day (never working the Front Delts independently at all).

That`s really good that you got 8 reps after the first one was so challenging! How are you doing the dips? Like...elbows out/in, body perpendicular/angled, stuff like that. Gee, I haven`t done dips since forever..must be over a year now, maybe two.

I gotta split my Upper Body Workouts up differently; just too much to do both chest and back the same day although yeah there`s always some overlap (work back, feel pecs a bit too, and vice-versa).

I`m still doing the "standard" Chest/Triceps and Back/Biceps split, alternating between them on Fridays. I`ll be very interested to hear how *your* split works for you.

Really like that you did (only) 8 sets for your workout, keeping the volume reasonable. I too add my Ab/Oblique work onto other workouts...accidentally altered the bench angle on Friday and days later I *still* really feel my lowermost abs..gee, that was one very good oops! Gotta make that the new normal.
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Im setting the dip bars for a narrow grip vs the wider grip. I try to keep my arms in tight as I’m using dips as a tricep exercise(though hey obviously involve a lot more). I lean forward just a bit and let my elbows flare out just a tad- enough to be comfortable.

I may alter the sequence of the workout and move the dips before the shoulder stuff, but we’ll see. I’ve always kinda liked the idea of a pre exhaust before a heavy movement.

And I’m up to 8 sets per workout instead of the previous 6. Just didn’t feel like i could hit everything properly for a full body workout in 6 exercises. Compromise I made was to split the upper portion between the 2 workouts. Just did the new format for the first time this week, definitely feels like a more complete workout.

One thing I wish my gym had more of was cable machines. Always felt like I could do a lot with that one machine but they’re always tied up at my gym.

Thing that has struck me in the past month of moving back to HIT, and probably being more deliberate with the methodology than I was 10 years ago, is the toll these workouts take on me. 6-8 set workout and my whole body feels like jello after, and I feel utterly exhausted for the rest of the day. Can’t recall feeling like that 10 years ago, but that was also when I was 23, so...

Do you feel utterly spent after your workouts?
 
jrock645 said:
Im setting the dip bars for a narrow grip vs the wider grip. I try to keep my arms in tight as I’m using dips as a tricep exercise(though hey obviously involve a lot more). I lean forward just a bit and let my elbows flare out just a tad- enough to be comfortable.
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Ah, sounds smart! Just avoiding causing some injury can pretty much dictate how dips need to be done. Easy to *say* "elbows in tight, no flaring out, perfectly straight posture" when you`re targeting Tris, but it`s just not that simple for most of us.

I may alter the sequence of the workout and move the dips before the shoulder stuff, but we’ll see. I’ve always kinda liked the idea of a pre exhaust before a heavy movement.
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Hey, very interesting! I`m the exact opposite, I gotta do the heavy movement first or I won`t be able to really nail it. Gotta be as fresh (and psyched) as possible for those. I generally work my shoulders between the Big Parts (Back or Chest) and my arms (Bis or Tris) as I believe that best prepares my tendons for the strain of arm work and makes it less likely that (otherwise still-strong) Delts will factor in much when I`m targeting my Upper Arms.

And I’m up to 8 sets per workout instead of the previous 6. Just didn’t feel like i could hit everything properly for a full body workout in 6 exercises. Compromise I made was to split the upper portion between the 2 workouts. Just did the new format for the first time this week, definitely feels like a more complete workout.
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Yeah, gotta find what it takes for *you* to get it all done the way you want. I`m always saying how little I do, but it can take me a fair number of sets to really train something complicated like Back or else I miss something. Which might explain why I do so many different little bodypart-specific workouts instead of "working the whole body as a system" in one long workout the way many do.

Hmmm..let`s see, per Bodypart/Muscle Group I generally do:

-Back: 6-8
-Chest: 3-6
-Quads: 1-4
-Hams: 1-3
-Lower Legs: 2-4
-Delts: 1 (Medial) or 2-3 (Rear)
-Bis: 1-4
-Tris: 3-4
-Forearms: 2-6
-Grip: 1
-Finger Extension: 1
-Abs: 1-3
-Obliques: 1

One thing I wish my gym had more of was cable machines. Always felt like I could do a lot with that one machine but they’re always tied up at my gym.
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Aw man, that sounds frustrating. I wish I had one of the fancy ones that lets you adjust the height of the pulley so I`m not contorting myself to get the angles right, but at least I can always access mine and set it up the way I want.

Thing that has struck me in the past month of moving back to HIT, and probably being more deliberate with the methodology than I was 10 years ago, is the toll these workouts take on me. 6-8 set workout and my whole body feels like jello after, and I feel utterly exhausted for the rest of the day. Can’t recall feeling like that 10 years ago, but that was also when I was 23, so...
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I don`t really feel *exhausted*, more like I had a very different sort of leg workout that didn`t cause actual soreness. I`ll still do hours of work afterwards (landscaping, snow clearing..real work), or at least take the dogs out for a few miles.

But I`ve been doing this HIIT/SIT for years now and have undoubtedly acclimated to it. AND...well, I`m breaking all my Resistance Work up into little workouts and spreading those far apart.

Maybe your age factors in, but it didn`t in my case. Well, at least not until my mid-50s (usual cardio started seeming harder) but at that point I`d been *grossly* overtrained for years so of course it caught up with me.

Do you feel utterly spent after your workouts?
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Depends on the workout, but generally that only happens after Upper Leg Day, which is also Cardio Day (usually the "easy" one so I don`t fatigue my legs). I do Cardio first thing in the morning, and my Resistance Work fairly late in the afternoon. Lots of time to recover in between.

On the days that I just do Cardio it doesn`t affect the rest of the day, nor do my other Resistance Workouts.

Maybe my perception is kinda relative considering how overtrained I was for so long; everything is just so much better now in every way.

One thing that might really factor is is how long I rest between sets. Sometimes it`s *VERY* long indeed! I used to take pretty minimal time between them, again as per the Conventional Dogma, but finally realized that was counterproductive for me.
 
Yeah I used to do the zero rest between exercises- moved as quickly from one machine to the next as I could. Probably why things stagnated. That was also while living in a very small town and a quiet gym. Couldn’t do that now even if I wanted to. I’m keeping the rest minimal but enough: 1-2 minutes tops, quicker if location of machines allow and it’s an antogonistic change(like going from tri’s to biceps). Doesn’t do much good to do an exercise fully gassed, even with my pre exhaust type stuff I make sure to get a minute or two in between to get that short term recovery.
 
jrocl645- Good that the 1-2 minutes is sufficient for you what with the busy gym! Heh heh, you possibly can`t *imagine* how long I`ll sometimes wait between sets :o

The way I figured it out (by accident...again) was when some workouts get interrupted by phone calls/etc. forcing me to take 15 minutes or more between sets. Finally figured out that *those* were my best workouts. Funny, but I don`t "get stale" or "cold" or whatever, just perform better and get better results. Yet another "who woulda thunk it?!?"

But again, easy for me to do it that way since I`m exercising at home.
 
Yeah, eventually I’ll have to increase the rest. I’m still well within the stage of making improvement based off of neural function. Some reading the other day talked about that, on the Drew Baye website. Basically said finally reaching a plateau in strength gains after pushing through that improved neural function stage as a good thing. Push through that and it’s your time to make actual muscular improvement.

And Drew Baye is a dyed in the wool zero rest type of guy. He’s pretty much a Darden/Jones clone from what I can tell so far.
 
jrock645 said:
And Drew Baye is a dyed in the wool zero rest type of guy. He’s pretty much a Darden/Jones clone from what I can tell so far.
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I dunno, that "zero rest" stuff is so easily disproven in cases such as mine that his being so adamant about it makes me question his credibility.

I mean, sure there are some specific benefits that can be derived from that, especially for younger athletes training for a sport-specific level of performance. But I can`t see it at all as an across-the-board recommendation if only because it was so obviously wrong for me.

OK, quick check of his website...Can`t fairly comment on the guy without knowing anything about him. [Read some of his stuff....]

I`d put him in the Buffet/Cafeteria category along with most everybody else- take what`s good and leave the rest. Lots of good basic info there, but a lot is also a rehash of Jones/Darden/Mentzer (all presented as fact) and he comes up short on the latest discoveries and some topics I consider crucial.

Eh, maybe I`m just among the "very few" he mentions for whom a different approach is better. Whatever works for you is good IMO.
 
Yeah hes certainly not an innovator. Its a shame there arent more HIT “experts” out there with more people doing it and more data to compare. Instead, we get 2 or 3 slightly different cookie cutter approaches that were all born out of the same idea really. And bery little data to compare.
 
So much for the slo niacin being non flushing... Took it before my workout this morning and it tore me up!

And as usual, i feel like lethargic jello after the workout. Total trainwreck.
 
jrock645- Heh heh, when (the right kind of) Niacin kicks in you notice it! I have to pretty much avoid leaving the house for an hour after my daily dose lest I have to explain how everything`s fine and no it doesn`t feel bad to me, it`s almost a feature as in "I can feel it working" (sure would understand others disagreeing about that though).

So what`s *YOUR* take on the way you feel wrecked after a (presumably good) workout? Good/bad/indifferent/satisfied/not...?

On the paucity of "HIT Experts" with worthwhile contributions to make...I`ve kinda come to the point of trying to be my *own expert*. It seems to me that all the general info it already there, and that Individual Differences are such a significant factor that you just have to hoe your own row.

When it comes to Cardio, most every study is just some kind of confirmation of what they`ve all shown since Tabata opened the floodgates. Biggest discoveries since are how *little* HIIT/SIT Cardio is necessary and how that kind of cardio needs to be paired with some lower-intensity, steady-state work to achieve maximum benefits. Everything else is just "which wax is best on red paint?"

For Resistance Work, I`ve never seen *ANYONE`S* proposed workout that would be right for me. Never. Doesn`t mean they`re not right for somebody else, but I had to figure out what`s best for me.

This is, *IMO* one of the huge shortcomings of having somebody else train/coach/advise you; they aren`t you so there`s an extra, uhm...layer...between the Trainee and Reality if that makes sense. Perceptions and the ideas/decisions they might precipitate aren`t as immediately connected.

Oh man, this won`t go over well, but...IMO the understanding of Anatomy (i.e., the functions, composition, performance characteristics, and recovery needs of the individual muscles and the various muscle groups) is the best foundation. I gather most people have zero interest in that and find it hard to study stuff they`re not interested in. But that`s what finally got me squared-away after so many decades of doing it wrong.
 
One of the things that bugs me about so many HIT "experts" is that they often employ pseudo-intellectualism, while often saying stuff that`s in direct conflict with their supposed/stated Belief Systems. It`s like HIT is the "Objective way to train" but they aren`t objective about how they approach it and they discount valid *subjective* factors.

Like, I think *SO* highly of the late Mike Menzter, but oh man would he and I have had some, uhm....discussions ;) Doubt I could`ve had productive conversations with Jones, I gather he knew everything and any disagreement was indicative of error (sarcasm).
 
I attribute the train wreck feeling to a couple of things:

- Whole body workouts are taxing by their very nature. I somewhat recall 5x5 workouts leaving more noticeably spent(vs a split routine), but not like this. Squats, deadlifts and overhead press day understandably would take a lot out of anyone.

-THe intensity has been legitimate. The last 3-4 reps of every exercise has been near brutal. Even when I can’t move the weight anymore, I try like hell and occasionally move it some more, but at least hold the weight and let it back down slowly. Takes me a minute or two to get myself back together to get up after finishing leg press. The level of exertion alone has to be taking a toll.

- I’m endurance oriented by nature, and not built for short bursts and now I’m doing short bursts at terminal intensity. I think it’s taxing because it’s attacking my weakness.

That’s my logic, anyway.
 
jrock645- Oh man am I enjoying this discussion! IMO the way you`re working through your thoughts on this stuff is great and I like your logic.

Yeah, the Full-Body Workouts would *NEVER* work for me or anybody I know IRL. IME a good Leg workout (and for me that`s just a few sets) is so taxing that there`s zero way I could also do justice to, say...back. Yeah, just me and I`m older and and and, but it`s sure not right for everyone. Your Endurance tendancies might not extend to this kind of thing since you might not have the Fast-twitch fibers to keep those long workouts productive, but rather *do* have the Slow-twitch ones to enable you do complete them; IMO it can be hard to tell such stuff. I used to do LOOOONG workouts, maintaining my strength as per the advice of guys like Poloquin, and I still felt OK afterwards. But they weren`t all that productive.

I do get the practical advantages of it, especially for those who don`t train at home; a lot gets done at every visit to the gym. But OH MAN would I wager on a big improvement if you switched to some kind of split. Heh heh, just probably not something as extreme as what I do...?!?Just Calves or Forearms?!?..hey, best for me and I can do it that way.

The intensity sounds great..though heh heh, can`t help but chuckle over 1-2 minutes being a significant recovery time for you! Yeah, I did it that way for years/decades too, even recording every rest interval between every set down to the near-second, but I`ve gone so far in the opposite direction that it seems utterly wild now.

Thought- wonder how my age might factor in there?!? I get kinda caught up in the "hey, no age-related decline here!" mindset, might oughta watch that.

I really like that last point you made! Yes indeed, you sound like an Endurance guy, and since that might be related to Fast/Slow-twitch fiber preponderance I think you`re on the right track. Guys who lean towards the Slow-twitch end of the spectrum are possibly more vulnerable to the age-related loss of Fast-Twitch fibers and should thus emphasize them. Not like we lose any of the Slow-twitch ones as we age anyhow.

Hey, that brings up a good topic..."attack one`s weaknesses" vs. "play to one`s strengths". Not an either/or IMO...
 
Ill have to switch to a split routine at some point but im not there yet. My initial thought is to do what im doing through the summer, then switxh. Last time down the HIT trail, i messd with things too much and really got away from what its all about. Really trying to avoid messing with stuff too much this time.
 
jrock645- Sounds like you`re learning :D

That oughta be a good period for an evaluation. And yeah, change too much, too many variables at once, and it can go sideways.

But I`d still be trying to avoid the Train Wreck feeling, just can`t imagine that *really* being beneficial..you know, just the "stressing the organism beyond what`s needed for beneficial adaptation" kind of abuse that can lead to stuff like Silent Inflammation.
 
Ran a calorie count on what a typical days eating was this week, just to see...

Got about 2800 calories- 225g carbs, 90g fat and 240g protein. Not bad for just eating how I felt.

Not entirely sure what my maintenance level is supposed to be. I’ve always kinda figured 15 calories per lb of lame, which would be around 2600 but that doesn’t necessarily factor in my average of 15000 steps per day for work, on top of exercise. One online calculator told me 3100 calories/day for maintenance. Seems a tad high maybe.

Scale is trending up the past two weeks, but waist measurements have stayed the same, which is good. Don’t wanna add weight too quick so I’ll just keep doing this how I have been. Oh, yeah... waist measurement is the same but I don’t look as lean. Think that’s just some subcutaneous water weight that I’m not used to having, being that I didn’t eat the carbs before.
 
jrock645- Recommendations on calories seem to be all over the map (and different for men/women). But yeah...those numbers sound high. But#2, maybe you *do* need that much...I dunno how any general formula is gonna really be all that accurate for a real individual human, know what I mean?

What if you drop the calories a bit too much? How do you notice? Heh heh, guess we all know how we notice when we increase them too much!

Does subcutaneous water make that big a diff for you? I`ve never given that any thought myself (which eh, doesn`t mean anything other than I don`t know from it). I go by muscle striations and vascularity, especially in areas where those are hard to achieve.
 
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