Wax on top of a coating? What's your take?

512detail

512detail

New member
Feeling an itch to add some more shine to the daily driver which is coated with pinnacle black label paint coating.

About a month ago I put one coat of dodo juice doublewax hard on top of the coating about a week after i initially coated the truck.

Honestly, I felt that it shined a little bit more but am not sure if that was just my mind trying to tell myself so.

So I am confused as to whether there is any real benefit to putting wax on top of a coating.

I am wondering if the agitation of the surface coming from applying and removing a wax could potentially degrade the quality and longevity of the coating?

What is your take on this?

Don't get me wrong the truck looks amazing when clean but I find myself just feeling an itch to put something else on there. I'm sure most of you on here can understand.

Maybe I am just over thinking this whole thing but I feel this should be objectively discussed.

Thanks
 
512detail said:
Feeling an itch to add some more shine to the daily driver which is coated with pinnacle black label paint coating.

About a month ago I put one coat of dodo juice doublewax hard on top of the coating about a week after i initially coated the truck.

Honestly, I felt that it shined a little bit more but am not sure if that was just my mind trying to tell myself so.

So I am confused as to whether there is any real benefit to putting wax on top of a coating.

I am wondering if the agitation of the surface coming from applying and removing a wax could potentially degrade the quality and longevity of the coating?

What is your take on this?

Don't get me wrong the truck looks amazing when clean but I find myself just feeling an itch to put something else on there. I'm sure most of you on here can understand.

Maybe I am just over thinking this whole thing but I feel this should be objectively discussed.

Thanks
Click to expand...

How technical of an answer do you want?
 
i say whatever makes you happy. i think the big issue is bonding problems of wax to the already slick surface of a coating and how long will it last. i love the blackfire wet ice over fire look.(wax over a sealant) and wouldn't hesitate to wax over a coating just to see if it adds any depth.
 
Simple Answer
Technical Answer


512detail said:
Feeling an itch to add some more shine to the daily driver which is coated with pinnacle black label paint coating.
Click to expand...

Depending on the characteristics of the coating, adding wax may or may not work.

About a month ago I put one coat of dodo juice doublewax hard on top of the coating about a week after i initially coated the truck.

Honestly, I felt that it shined a little bit more but am not sure if that was just my mind trying to tell myself so.
Click to expand...

It may have shone differently

We have to be careful discussing "shined a little bit more." By applying a carnauba wax on top of the coating, you have have created more depth of shine, which is a distortion-like effect that gives reflections the appearance of being further away than the surface of the paint.

However, being a high-quality crystallized silica coating means that is going to create near the highest levels of reflection possible. Pinnacle Black Label increase the gloss well beyond the limits of a carnauba wax.

While carnauba wax reflects more light then paint because of its leveling, it is far below the level of reflections and shimmer created by Black Label. So, it will become the limiting factor the gloss, like a slightly opaque window applied over bright sunlight.

The trade off is an increase in depth, which perhaps your eyes find more appealing on that paint color.

So I am confused as to whether there is any real benefit to putting wax on top of a coating.
Click to expand...

Yes, no and maybe

Adding wax on top will provide a thicker layer of protection, at least temporarily. Depending on the surface of the paint coating, wax may not be able to adhere properly, limiting to any increase in protection what little smears are left. Keep in mind that coatings are such powerful protectants that any extra protection is not really needed.

On some coatings, any benefit would be limited to how much the wax adhered (usually far less than when applied to paint) and any benefit may last a number of days to a week.

Pinnacle Black Label will accept carnauba wax better than most coatings, and looks exceptional when topped with the ivory carnauba in Pinnacle Souveran. You will trade a hair of the brilliant, amped up gloss for a nice increase in depth.


I am wondering if the agitation of the surface coming from applying and removing a wax could potentially degrade the quality and longevity of the coating?
Click to expand...

No.

Any coating that is degraded by the realistically low-scale of even a machine applied wax (or mild cleaner/wax) is not going to offer you long-term protection.

However, what will happen is that the coating will initially take on the water beading of the wax (for as long as the wax is fresh). As the wax degrades, the remains of the wax will act to clog the microscopic texture that creates surface tension - the effect that causes water to bead. This will cause the water beading to flatten, which could give the impression that both the wax and coating are failing.

The coating is fine, it is just clogged by wax residue. Eventually the original water beading will return as the remains wear away. This could take a fairly long time.

[quoteS]Maybe I am just over thinking this whole thing but I feel this should be objectively discussed.

Thanks[/quote]

It's detailing, do what makes you happy and looks best to your eyes!
Agreed!

Simple Answer
Technical Answer
 
Todd Helme said:
How technical of an answer do you want?
Click to expand...

full disclosure! haha

no seriously. im interested in this. i had a few comments on the thread i posted about the initial coating experience with this vehicle and it sparked a deep curiosity towards cost benefits of doing this?

as far as how technical..for instance...when you put the wax on top of the coating (specifically the black label paint coating, for the sake of this thread and my specific experience causing said thread) does it create the same type of bond as it would if you just put the wax on top of 'lsp' ready paint with no sealant applied and/or with sealant applied.

i understand that the black label coating consists of nano ceramic glass particles and these particles will fill pits and valleys in the paint, causing a smooth as glass surface, which i can personally attest to happening. my coated paint was smoother than my uncoated windows when i first put just the black label paint coating on.

so i would think that, since the surface is so smooth that the layer of wax applied would be so "evenly" applied on the surface to really show optimal performance, right?

thank kind of specific would be great

but then specific as far as..with a quality wax on top of the black label paint coating, would you expect to see extreme beading/sheeting characteristics or would the beading/sheeting just be a display of the wax you put on top of the coating? and the added benefit of the wax would be a deeper 'nuba look on top of the 'glass like' look of the black label coating (which is awesome btw)?

thanks

im thinking about doing this tomorrow afternoon...maybe i will just have to tape off sections of the truck and experience first hand
 
thanks todd! great information to have

by the time i posted, left work and made it home from work i didn't even have a chance to respond to your initial question... thats amazing feedback!
i really didn't expect to get anything solid until tomorrow


so i really enjoy the look of just the black label on my truck, and after reading what you have said, i feel like i will be just wasting my 'nuba and would be better off just purchasing the black label shampoo and using it only to wash the truck. but i think i might do half the hood and see if i notice anything.

as far as my black vehicle, i still cannot decide if i should coat it or not. but now after reading everything you have stated i think i might as well.

but what am i going to do when i get bored and need to wax a vehicle? this modern technology is giving me too much free time!
 
it just looks so good. i guess i just wanted to see if i could squeeze anything extra out of it.
2006 with 104k miles-polish prepped with a drill attachment as well

the only thing i can think of would be to strip the coating with my duetto and polish some more and then recoat







 
lol thanks ron. i think i will tape off half the hood

but i did put dodo juice doublewax hard on there about 5 weeks ago. wonder if its still holding up. haven't washed the truck in about a week.
 
Ya had to know I was gonna chime in.

I got 4 different coatings sittin in garage that I'm dying to use, but.... the waxer in me will be devastated if I don't take them out and play every so often
 
ended up going with supernatural on the hood and roof...and just for kicks went with liquid souveran spray wax on the panels...thought that maybe since it was pinnacle brand too that it would increase the shine of the coating (not sure if that is what happened but it made it look better- to my eyes at least)

slickness dramatically increased from just smooth as glass surface to noticeable surface tension increase from the slickness of the supernatural.

even the spray wax gave noticeable slickness increase...still touching up some small details while the truck is earning it stay in the garage

i will put some pictures up once i finish up here this afternoon

did a water test last night on just the coated paint...still works wonderfully

recent addition of coating the wheels and front/rear glass is also working out wonderfully
 
so this brings me to my next thought and subsequent question...

why dont they make a device that measures the slickness of your lsp? that would be great

im not that kind of scientist so somebody make it happen! haha
 
oh and another thing..just wanted to state that there was sap ALL over the roof and hood of the truck and it was no match for the coating because it came right off with ONR and a damp chinchilla second wipe

black label paint coating FTW!
 
so I can speak to this - I have 22ple vx1 pro on my car. I have tried to use a QD as a clean up in winder but nope the product left behind almost seems to fight with my coating. Honestly poorboy's spray and wipe is the best thing I have found because it does not leave anything behind. Part of me is pissed because I love waxing/glazing testing out combos but given the winter and the amount of time i have had to not do that..I am pretty happy overall.
 
I have a coating as well. PB spray and wipe is perfect to top coating after a wash or as a waterless wash. Coatings can indeed fight with a topper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
My $.02


It defeats the point of using a coating as you'll temporary lose out on some of the attributes that make coatings so great...

Most noticeably, dust attraction and hydrophobic properties.

That being said I've been know to top coatings with CarPro Hydr02! :D
 
When I had Opti-Coat 2.0 on my car, I wanted extra gloss so I threw a layer of Nuba on it. I can honestly say, it added a lot of depth and shine to the car. The reflections were deeper and the black seemed to go on forever. I really could tell the difference.

Some would say that it, the wax, just degrades over the next week or two. That's fine with me because I applied the coating for the extra protection, not necessarily the looks of the coating. Now, I have since abraded off the Opti-Coat and applied a more, well, glossier coating in its place. The fact that it won't last as long is a moot point for me since I would end up polishing it before the "two years" that it lasts. That's why it was either GTechniq or CarPro (this was before the new additions to the coating market.)

Sometimes I get bored and want to apply something to the paint, but so far have stopped myself since I really enjoy the hydrophobic characteristics of EXO. Either way though, I don't think there is any down side to adding a wax, assuming you are okay with the properties of the wax, including the side effects of diminished life and, maybe, dust attraction, etc.

As it was said, GO FOR IT! :D
 
dodo juice supernatural on hood and roof

pinnacle liquid souveran spray wax on rest of truck just to try the look


a little hard to see but that is the accumulation of dirt and sap on the top half above the clean ONR half- i was very happy how easily the sap came off with just a second damp mf wipe









pb trim restorer on the running boards..man this stuff is awesome

 
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